rheingold

This x1000

"So, what about all the women who said it was fine and the person who complained was an idiot? I guess those women do not count huh?" Please supply me a list or number of how many women thought it was ok. The point is that there where a number of really high profile women scientists who were horrified by the idiot in the shirt. They wrote incredibly well thought out blogs and posts pointing out why it was so offensive. The fact that some random people were ok with it is completely irrelevant.

I don't think guys can quite understand just how offensive and demeaning it was for women scientists to have some di&**&*head representing the ESA wearing an sexist shirt. Here's the thing guys - people in power or privilege do not get to decide if they are sexist or rascist, it's for their victims to decide. Anything else is incredibly stupid... Picture a bunch of dumbass guys sitting around making sexist jokes - and then telling people who are upset that they don't feel a thing. Level of intellectual dishonesty and stupidy by the gamergate crowd is crazy.

Plainly because Intel, Microsoft's and HP's products aren't art. Processors and operating systems are utilities and I don't care about them. Those products are inherently neutral. How can you pack progressive ideology into a processor? Games I do care about, games are art. Therefore I will defend them from triggerhappy censors. I don't hate Obsidian, I just regret their choice. Okay, except that there's no reasonable argument that will define an ad created by Intel (a photograph which was planned out and edited to achieve the desired end product, with a bit or writing involved as well) as not being art, but will define a little poem made by a backer as art. Again, you're just singling this out and labeling it as art because it supports your agenda to do so. If Intel is "censoring" their ads so as not to offend people, then how is that better than Obsidian asking a backer if he wants to change his poem so as not to deal with people getting offended? Do you see how inconsistent that is? Because the backer really shouldn't have put Obsidian into this position - it goes without saying that anything the Backers wrote to place in the game should not have been controversial in any way. Anything else is abusing the system. Obsidan are a business. They have to act in order to protect their reputation. The fault clearly lies with the backer. And as far as I can make out, Obsidan bent over backwards to mollify him, which they probably shouldn't have done. Put it this way, freedom of speech is not unlimeted, you can walk into a park and shout out your views regardless of how offensive they are are. However you do not have the right to behave in such a manner if you are on private property. It's like someone pissing in your lounge. The person or business clearly has the right to boot you out. Also from an ethical side, why should you be allowed to put your offensive views into someone elses game? If Obsidan had done this themselves it would be another issue - they clearly have the right to be offensive if they want. They didn't and they have responded in the correct manner.

Ok cool no worries - at any rate I just wanted to voice my support for Obs at this point...

If I am buying a product from a company I will try and choice the more ethical choice - of course. And when it comes to games - well obviously if a company is sexist, rascist or whatever then I won't support them. It's not a diffucult concept to grasp. You are also missing my point which is putting aside the moral issue/outrage - on both sides, it makes sense for companies to be more inclusive - they are going to sell more. Whereas concentrating on the gamersgate community is going to put you out of business very quickly.

Exactly it is my choice and from a business decision it's also Obs and Biowares... Obs have every right to protect their reputation. BTW its the way the world is moving whether you like it or not. And it's only a tiny almost insignificant but vocal minority who are angry - as usual. It's best for a company morally, and for their bottom line to ignore the angry priveleged few who believe the world owes them something - as in it must be done my way or not all all. Or my offense is greater than yours... My dad is bigger than yours... Childish behaviour should never be rewarded.

Good on Obsidan for changing it - they have my vote - more inclusive is always good. BTW While I hated DA 2 and Inquisition I will still support Bioware by buying their games - mainly because of their stance towards a more progressive enlightened society.

You honestly can't expect the devs to balance a party of 6 chanters or 6 ciphers or 6 whatever. If you want to play that way fine, but seriously that's not a balance issue... There are always going to be exploits and lots of cheese and whine with them. It's as stupid as taking 6 druids. Nothing they can do about that without impacting balance somewhere else. They do have a bit of work with balancing overall, but its not as bad as people say. For instance Chanters and Ciphers are the exact opposite, Ciphers are not that strong for the big boss fights but they rock for the majority of the game. Chanters are good for the majority of the game but they are awesome in the boss fights. Druids and Wizards are still better than a Cipher - particularly Druids, in a one off fight - by that I mean a Druid spamming all his spells will completely out do a Cipher. But he can only do it once. So the balance needs work but it's not as bad as everyone thinks.

It's actually pretty clear... Anything else would be overkill. You are warned, what else can you say.

I'd give it some more time before you shelve it for good. I also struggled in the beginning and I'm a fairly experienced player. It's not easy or intuitive at first. But as I got a bit more playtime it started getting enjoyable really enjoyable. But yeah, the first couple of hours where tough, now it's just about perfect....

There is a massive difference between the offensive trans limerick and this issue. In fact they are 2 separate issues. Obsidan were right to correct the limerick which clearly was offensive. Luckman not sure what you have against Sawyer, but it's becoming really tiring. Every post has an anti Sawyer tirade in it?

And people wonder why the devs don't or can't possibly listen to the criticisms or ideas regarding changing, say attributes... They just have to read this thread to come away more confused than ever. Also with less faith in humanity...

They all great - love Avellones work so really enjoying his, but my favourite are Eder and Sagani. In particualar Sagani is great, a strong female character who is not in the game just for the male pc's edification. She has a life and a family. Awesome stuff whoever wrote her.

Guys complaining about wizards are just used to them being completely overpowered as opposed to balanced. There is nothing wrong with them - they work perfectly well, if anything they are still a tad overpowered. Good that mind blades is being nerfed it's completely bonkers at the moment. Overall looking forward to the patch, thanks obs.

Lasci - bloody autocorrect

I agree with pretty much everything LasCo said, the guys with the Mathis have way to much time on their hands. Dual wield ends up doing insane damage. Only issue is I would take escape, it can be useful under certain circumstances. The path finding is not great and sometimes you can get stuck - ie having the tank holding a door means the rogue ends up twiddling his thumbs. The invisibility also can work, mainly to avoid engagement attacks. Backstab is useless though. Thing is a rogue only needs a few skill/talents to work well and they are obvious so I always end up taking escape and invisibility as well.

And as Gromnir has pointed out stats don't make as big a difference as everyone thinks. It's very possible to put points into resolve and Perception. The only stat that is important for a dual wield is dexterity and even then only if you are naked.

Yup a cipher and a rogue go together like a horse and carriage.

Well there's always a chance that some fraction of the community will never be appeased (I haven't seen this thus far on these forums, I'm not sure its fair to assume all gaming communities are the same!). But from that you can't just take the stance that you should never communicate ever because of a hypothetical minority, as its kind of an extreme and unhelpful reaction. There are a large number of users who would be happy to hear even a small blurb about what they're up to, and who wouldn't go on an angry tirade afterwards because we're mostly reasonable people. I'm sure they're working on it too but it would still be nice for their community manager (or whatever the title is ) to make a post here. Even one sentence, and the statement that they can't go into details, is fine with me and would make me feel a lot better. I'm certainly not saying they should never communicate, by all accounts they have responded on Twitter and redit. They HAVE said they are working on a patch. But obviously that's all they can really say at this stage. Anything else would be supposition or guesswork on their part and would be counterproductive. BTW, I'm sure there are some reasonable folk on the Internet, and the post wasn't aimed at you

Problem is, its a lose lose situation for a dev to open his mouth. Again and again, ad nauseum - the same old complaints. If they say they are working on a patch, people are pissed off and want to know when. If they say end of week, people are pissed off and want it now. If they rush and give said patch now people are pissed off when it's a half assed solution. If they say they need more time, people are pissed, well you get the message... Far better all round to keep quiet and just do their jobs. The patch will be out when it's out. There will also be other problems and people will be crying for another patch, and so the circle of life continues...

Yeah, I don't think there is a problem with your tactics, you are just under leveled. Bear in mind there is no level scaling, some places are going to be difficult or impossible. And you can run into those fights way before you are ready.

Someone has already given it a 0 on metacrtitic didn't take as long as I thought for the trolls to come out from under the bridge. I can understand if people don't like it and give it a four or five, but 0 is a tad harsh....

Early to mid 80's. The fact that it's a niche product - "a return to ie games" won't stop people who hate those games from reviewing it.

Rangers work fine ranged as dps, but I have found that I don't micro manage the ranger so much as the pet. Some people don't like that. But to benefit from ranger you really have to manage the pet. It works ridiculously well with a melee rogue in the party though.