Ganrich

In the beta you get loot. In the full game they likely will do the same. It could really throw off the game's economy if they gave you a ship to sell everytime. There may be some BOSS ships that you can take, but are the really big fights. Like an Alpine Dragon equivalent. That's my guess anyway.

I imagine Open World as a concept is going to actually get worse in a lot of ways because advancements will lead to to larger, emptier worlds that developers simply cannot populate with enough content to really be engaging. What's a whole continent for instance if most of it is just fields and mountains where the only encounter you may have while travelling is an animal attack? Perhaps it's wishful thinking but I hope fatigue sets in soon and those ambitions are scaled back and more manageable RPG games (Of any subgenre.) are made in their place. I agree. However, if tech like Cloud Imperium Games is using in Star Citizen becomes cheaper to produce then it could work out. They are using a server to simulate 80%-90% of the NPC population in the galaxy. They will all have jobs and move around. Similar things have been tried in the TES games. Although to a less ambitious extent. If you mix this in with a name generator to keep your population from being bandit 1, bandit 2, etc while mixing in some hand crafted story telling... Things could balance out. This tech would have to become cheaper to build and efficient enough to run within the game as opposed to requiring a dedicated server, but it could happen. It just might take another 5 years or more. @Morhilane - that last post is a round about way of saying I'm an old fogey, isn't it? ISN'T IT?!?!?!

Awesome! That staff would be sexy on a Skald. Would be good for a Skald/Wizard Gish or maybe a Skald/Druid. I wonder if you lose the buffs to melee when spiritshifted. You probably do, but it's sexy none the less. I'm also digging the singing scimitar. If you MC your Chanter in such a way to mostly focus on Phrases and minimal invocations. A melee Troubadour that focuses on his phrases while using his other class for dps. Maintaining around 8% attack speed bonus. Troubadour/Rogue or Troubadour/Cipher with that thing could be fun.

At the time that the infinity engine games came out, it was necessary to distinguish between what we would now refer to as a TTRPG and the newfangled things those kids were doing on their overpriced calculators. An RPG was something you did with books and pencils at the DMs house. A cRPG was something different. Nowadays an RPG is a genre of vidya and a TTRPG is something that needs to be separately identified. It also differentiated video game RPGs made by western developers vs the jRPGs of consoles. Two completely different styles of RPG that were both popular in the mid 90s through the 2000s.

I didnt go physical with PoE1 as I was late to the party and was a Slacker Backer. So I cant say with regards to Obsidian. However, I did go physical with Torment, and didnt receive my stuff for a few weeks iirc. I had beaten the game by the time it arrived, and i believe I beat it twice. My memory is fuzzy.

I agree, to some extent, with DAO being listed among the sub-genre. I definitely dont think the genre HAS to be pc only, but the best examples pf it are pretty exclusive to the platform. Mostly because the Golden Age RPGs like fallout, darklands, BG, NWN, and so on were exclusive. However, Wasteland 2, DOS 1 and 2, PoE 1 and 2, and Shadowrun Returns + Dragonfall all had (or will have) ports to other platforms. I still consider all of these new entries cRPGs even if they all have some short comings compared to the old school games. Even games like the early Ultima games are part of the genre IMHO, and another odd one that I include as a CRPG is the TES games from Morrowind and prior. Oblivion and Skyrim are arguable, but I consider that's when Bethesda started deviating. That isn't to say they are bad games. They are just moving into a different genre of RPG IMHO. I dont like them, but I dont like God of War either and they are good games.

I also got a physical package, and I can't speak definitively, but I don't they would pay the shipping to send stuff out piecemeal. Now, IF you only had the guidebook and it is finished they may ship early, but I doubt it. Personally, I'm fine as long as I can play my digital copy. It is already listed in my steam library ready for download. I can wait for all the physical stuff until they are all ready.

Are you talking about Virgil? First playthrough was as a half ogre with dumped int. Virgil was pretty savage. :D One of the best aspects of the game imho. If half ogres were real, people like Virgil would have very negative reactions if they were supposed to save the world.

Yup, this sort of thing is why some games have replay value for me. You can't see it all in a single go. Some decisions will get you enemies. Some will make companions love you and other ones they will hate you. Some character builds work better with companions 1 through 4, and others work better with 5 through 8. Or some such. If they arent in your core party they shouldnt get a say in the conversation as they aren't present.

There is a Feargus interview out there somewhere where he said they have made offers (IIRC more than a few times), but Activision wanted more. He indicated that it just wasnt financially feasible. Obsidian having had some issues financially made it impossible. He didnt give any hard numbers, though. I somewhat think these big companies fear selling an IP theyve been sitting on for a decade to see a small time dev team turn it into the next TES franchise. All the while they sat on it doing nothing for a decade or more. It makes them look somewhat incompetent. So they likely try to sell the IP beyond its actual value. I'm not saying Arcanum would blow up like that, but it is far from impossible too. These companies saw what Bethesda did with Fallout in terms of name recognition among the mainstream. EA owns a whole lot of titles like Ultima, Wing Commander, etc that have similar potential to Fallout, for instance.

As an Arcanum fanboy I feel the need to state that Activision owns the IP. That said, I am fine with a spiritual successor. I love the character creation, but the systems that the abilities and attributes feed are not good by any standards. If you suffer the obtuseness of it, and persevere through early game... The world is very rich, and can pull you in like few other games. It's an odd combination of the fantastic while being grounded (somehow) that makes it interesting to me. Open world, turn based, a very cool steam punk meets magic dichotomy and world, and a very deep character building system. It's basically a Steam Punk fallout that would have benefitted greatly from another 6 months to a year of dev time. If they maintain those 4 things in a successor... I'd bite in a heart beat. Oh, and turn based only. No rtwp or TB hybrid like Arcanum. You only get two mediocre systems that way. They should find another way to keep trash fights from being tedious.

I've always assumed the "c" in cRPG stood for Computer, but it also carried the connotation of aping pen and paper Role Playing. At least this is how I've perceived it most of my life. This would include the first two fallouts, the infinity engine games, dark lands, Arcanum, ToEE, both Pillars games, the new Shadowrun games, the Divinity games, etc, etc. It really doesnt matter though. As an aside, I'm looking forward to the TTRPG almost as much as Deadfire itself. I love classless systems in both my TT games and my "c"RPGs.

Yeah, I don't disagree. Well, except I'm extremely happy with what deadfire has done to facelift the IP from PoE1. Resting is better. I like the overland map travel similar to Storms of Zehir, FO1 and 2, and Arcanum. Mutliclassing is done incredibly well. I think they learned from their info-dump dialogue in PoE1, but we will see. There are more things they have done that i like, but that isn't what this thread is about. So I'll move on. I would say that old school, Codexian cRPG fans are conservative as heck. They remind me of some metal heads I have as friends. The constant "That's not metal" sentiment that they tend to ooze. The thrash guys hate everything not thrash, the death guys hate evrything not death metal, and So on. They only agree on Motorhead. To be fair everyone likes Motorhead. I fall into this myself with RPGs, but I'm cognizant of it. I don't care for jrpgs, most modern action RPGs, and so on. I like building MY character so jrpgs are out. I prefer my decisions in game have ramifications. So I like the Witches series well enough, but not the modern Bethesda stuff so much. So on and so forth. However, we all have preferences. Anyway to sort of go back to my music analogy... I think RPGs are a bit more like Prog Rock. Pink Floyd, YES, Jethro Tull, Rush, and ELO all are considered Prog to some extent. However, some have have very little in common with the others. EG Rush has odd time signatures, where Jethro is a mix of folksy stuff into the rock paradigm, and Pink Floyd is more psychedelic. However, at times they all have some prpgressive tendencies. These are very broad examples of these guys music to save time. So it is semi superficial. Dont judge! Real Prog Rock is hard to define, and imho RPGs are also hard to define. With RPGs you can similarly focus on different aspects of the genre like the prog musicians. Some focus on combat systems (D: OS), some on open world (Bethesda), some on C&C (FO 1 and 2, witchers, etc), and some on RP dialogue systems (TTON). I'm sure there are other aspects ive neglected to mention. Dont judge! Anyway, I think many people have that negative reaction when they think someone they trust in development would focus on aspects they dont deem as a "Real RPG". Many developers dont have the finances to make a perfect storm in a modern 3D first or third person game. They can get the open world, but sacrifice the C&C and character building (Bethesda). Or they get the world and C&C, but strap you with a premade protagonist (Witchers). Or they focus on C&C and have a smaller game with mediocre combat (TTON or perhaps even the original ME games). They always have to sacrifice something. Certain sacrifices cause the grognards to grab pitchforks because "that's not a real RPG". If a developer makes a RPG that doesnt focus on things I enjoy... I just dont buy it. EG The lack of attribute focus means I still dont own FO4, but I wont stand on a soap box dumping on Bethesda. I just dont buy it. If I wanted a open world fps there are plenty of better examples than FO4 IMHO. Like Far cry, for instance. Some like it, and that's fine. Like I said with FONV under their belt id buy an Obsidian made open world shooter, but they care more about story and C&C than Bethesda. So I'm sure i could enjoy it more than I would FO4. Now had I heard that FO4 also had a great story... I'd have probably bought it. Eh, This wont change because RPGs are such a broad spectrum of titles and everyone has the few things that they think makes "a Real RPG." It sucks, but it's their preference, their dollar, their time to invest, and their opinion.

I use to be, but now I am very selective about purchases and play very few games. Typically, I only play cRPGs, Metroidvanias, Roguelikes, and an occasional shooter (Titanfall is the only one I buy anymore). Oh, and Tekken (with friends). Some weeks I don't play any games, and others I play less than an hour a day. However, with Deadfire around the corner I will likely play a bit more than normal when it launches. The last few years I have stuck mostly to indie games. Things like Hyper Light Drifter, Dead Cells, or so on. That said, I have other hobbies so not playing video games is pretty easy.

Eh, there is room for both. I think part of the problem is that when the PC market started to dwindle in 2002ish and the console market stole that thunder, we lost developers like Black Isle, Troika, etc to closing down. We cRPG fans simultaneously lost Bethesda and Bioware to Consoles, and their games started getting streamlined. Sure, I liked Oblivion, but it wasn't Morrowind or Daggerfall. I'm not a fan of Skyrim, but I'm glad I own it because of the Enderal mod (which I love). I also love both Kotor games, and enjoy Jade Empire and the first 2 ME games, but not at the loss of games like BG 1 and 2, Fallout 1 and 2, or NWN 1 and 2. I think many RPG fans that lived through the dark 2002-2012 decade tend to overreact, but I understand why they do. It's easy to see developers moving on to make more mainstream games, and that is a fear for many. So, they freak out. I honestly think Bethesda is pretty good at building environments (not dungeons though). Their towns are too small as well. However, their writing, combat, and AI is abysmal. Which IMHO is why they make games as wide as the Pacific and as shallow as a teaspoon. They also have maintained (last I heard) a really small staff to work on FO and TES for a AAA game studio. It is between 30-60 people or it was just after Skyrim. I remember a Todd Howard interview where he said as much, but I couldn't find it if my life depended on it. Compare this to CDPR who employed somewhere around 120 or more. which is a much more common number in AAA game development. IMHO this is why they focus on things like Radiant AI, and what not. because they don't have the people to hand craft these things today, and they don't want a huge studio either. So, they try to make little immersive things to try make up for it. Darned if you do, and darned if you don't. However, their games sell. So, unless that changes they won't change anything. As long as I get Shadowrun type games, PoE games, DOS games, DIsco Elysium, Copper Dreams, etc etc... I coudn't care less what else comes out. In fact, FONV being the best 3D Fallout makes me think that IF Obsidian was making a AAA game similar to TES or FO3/4... I'd give it a go. At least I know they would put SOME focus on story and writing to make it somewhat worth my while.

This. However, Chanter/Priest of Skaen, Chanter/Cipher, or Chanter/Druid might also work. Priest of Skaen gets some rogue stuff like Finishing Blow (I'm not sure if it works with ranged, but it doesn't say melee only so it should). However, it would work thematically with some of its spells. Chanter/Cipher with a wand/Scepter/Rod would work pretty well, and Cipher has some pretty dark spells to fit the theme. Druid is a little wonky, but they have a lot of spells based around decay which would work. However, they also have Shapeshift (Spiritshift in PoE), and that doesn't fit the theme. Other possiblities to Multi-Class with Chanter: Ghost Heart Ranger using wands/scepters/rods, and just pick up mostly pet upgrades instead of focusing on your ranged weapon abilities. Although, these are still animal companions, but ghostly. So not a pure necro-type, however it gives you another summon you can use via your Ranger resource (Bond). If you want a more Dark Knight type of build: Skald (which is a melee focused Chanter subclass) MCed with Bleak walker Paladin would fit. Chanter/Unbroken if you want a Tankier version. Heck, a pure Beckoner (summon focused Chanter subclass) or Troubadour (a very versatile chanter Subclass) can be selective about abilities and still have a necromancer vibe. Quick note: Bleak Walkers have a proclivity toward Cruelty and aggressive decision making, and Priests of Skaen have a proclivity toward Cruel and Deceptive decision making. At least this was the case in PoE1, and from what I can tell it remains the same in Deadfire. So, if you choose these then select your dialogue accordingly.

Ive been working way too much to play, but they are finally getting new hires in and I'll have time to actually play the game on launch. Anyway, I loaded the game yesterday and I built a Nature Godlike Helwalker/Skald with One weapon style. Around 14 dex, 16 perception, around 15 might, left con and res around 10, and dumped whatever was left in Int. Open with killers froze, and go to town. Kept my wounds fro hitting 0 to maintain the Helwaker Might bonus so it kept the Nature GL's racial (+2 powerl level when you have a might (con and resolve?) inspiration on the PC. This basically made all my invocations come out at +2 PLs, and any damage invocations benefitted from the extra might. It's a really good combo of classes. Used Dull the blades and come Come Chants. Now I'm trying a Troubadour/Ghost Heart with dual pistols who is an explosives expert. Evasive fire, Ila, marked prey, Killers Froze, This build is less worried about party buffing if enemies break the front line so he has a lower Intellect. Open with Marked Prey, Summon pet, cast Killers, wounding shot, and swap between auto fire, explosives, and invocations. Save some Bond for evasion, and at later levels evasive fire if you get some heat in battle. It's a really fun build. I really love the versatility of Troubadour. You COULD make a melee Troubadour, or a pure caster Troubadour, or as I did a ranged specialist Troubadour. Simultaneously, your troubadour could focus on invocations by having Brisk Recitation on, focus on buff stacking via chants with it off, or a little of both depending on combat needs. It's a toss up for me whether I like the Skald or Troubadour more. They are both fantastic. However, the fact that troubadour can be MCed with almost anything means I will likely use it more. Skald has a few great combos, and some I think would be pretty bad (none of the rangers except Stalker would be too good for instance). Anything but a Gish wizard wouldn't be great, Priest is also a luke warm option. You could make them work, but... I think Troubadour could work with nearly any other subclass well. Side note: Killers Froze might be too good. It's such a solid opener. Easily the best of the bunch in its level bracket. Anyway, I'm really psyched for the Chanter in Deadfire.

I've played the Shifter, and I loved it. Shifter/Skald to be precise. I will give the other 2 a go when I have free time and update this thread if no one else does, but it will likely be sometime this weekend before that happens. All I do is work, eat, and sleep lately.

Everything identical within the stash should stack. Armor, Weapons, shields, rings, necklaces, etc. For instance, if you have two Steel Short Swords neither of which have any enchantments. Well, they should be a stack of 2. While in the personal inventory of the PC or companions only smaller stuff should stack. Scrolls, potions, traps, ingredients, etc. That would be fine for me. PS. They should also stack in any special storage that we possibly may have on our ship.

Yeah to the extent that changes just force a choice, that's not necessarily bad. Pick a role: you do weapon damage, or you do spell damage, or you heal, or whatever. With ciphers though it's more complicated due to the focus mechanic; they can't just decide "ok, I'll do spell damage instead of weapon damage" because weapon damage is mandatory if they want to do anything else. There are some ways around it and the class is still playable (especially once and if they get spells generally rebalanced) but it's a more complicated problem for ciphers than for other classes. As someone that likes the idea of giving spell damage/healing to Resolve (mostly anyways) while leaving physical damage on Strength, I definitely see the issue with Ciphers more so than any other class. My recommendation is make Soul Whip flat damage instead of a percentage of melee damage. I would have its power scale off of Resolve. Then have the class gain focus based on the damage of Soul Whip. Soul Whip's damage should retain the damage type of the weapon being used. Piercing for Bows, Blunt for fists, etc. You will have to tweak numbers and rebalance the class a bit, and Strengh would be a dump stat, but it would be better for the class with this change IMHO. Now for casters getting the Deflection bonus and Damage bonus with Resolve... I have some issue with. When PoE1's beta started Resolve controlled Duration and AoE size. If I were making this change, I would give Resolve Duration/AoE size and Deflection. Then I would give Intellect the damage/healing bonus for spells. This is because if you are making a Gish you will mostly care about Duration of buffs and Deflecion (Resolve), if you are making a nuker then you would want damage (Intellect), but it would make Intellect a dump stat for pure melee/archer types. As it stands casters will have a definitive dump stat in STR, but many a pure melee have no such luxury. With Resolve covering Deflection it has some value to frontliners, even if marginal. Most will likely dump it or leave it close to 10, but it is what it is. It makes more sense from an RP standpoint because now you would have an excuse to make a stupid Barbarian. That is just my two cents. Anyway. Work has kept me away. I asked during the Fig Campaign if Attributes would stay the same, and I was told they would. LOL. Then when I saw Concentration was removed from resolve... I knew something was going to change or Resolve would be almost pointless. We just need Matt and Sensuki in here to make this just like the old PoE1 attribute threads from the first beta.

I'll always keep my fingers crossed that Obsidian finally snagged the green light on an Arcanum sequel.

Then you fall back into the Blunderbuss being the default Cipher weapon dilemma that PoE had during a few patch cycles. Adding a stipulation such as "can only occur once every .5 seconds" would stop that.

Happy thanksgiving, everyone!

It was very enjoyable to play and thats why it succeeded. shocker that people like fun games and balanced doesnt always equate to fun. A certain level of inbalance is required for games to feel fun imo There are a lot of older games (PC, console, or P&P) that have a following despite their flaws. Both NWN games are imperfect, but great. Each have a handful of great mod-campaigns and with their build diversity have had a lot of longevity. Also, MotB is still fantastic. I have no qualms about reinstalling NWN2 to go through MotB again every once and a while. I will repeat what I said earlier in this thread: 3.5s issues stem from three things, primarily. One is skill points. You were capped at 3 + class level in a class skill, and cross-class skills were half that (?) iirc. Also x-class skills required double the skill points to increase iirc. So, players would save skill points from class A to use on Class B's level up. This allowed you to maximize skill points, but required taking the class at the appropriate character level. It was a convoluted system that made people building a min/max build jump through a lot of hoops. The other issue is gaming feats where people would take a class like fighter, and level it up at a particular point to gain a feat at what would normally be a dead level for them. It would be a level that they didn't get a feat, spells, or abilities with their other class. This kept the power curve steady. You are a 3/3 wizard fighter, and you take fighter at level up because you gain weapon spec with it vs not gaining a new spell level. This is a poor example. The last was grossly insane level 1 abilities like the Shadow Dancer's Hide in Plain Sight. This caused single level dips in a PrC just for that one ability. Let's not talke about the Red Dragon Desciple, tyvm. Deadfire won't allow up to 4 classes to be multiclassed, but only two. That combined with how power levels are handled would make single level dips very rare. Unless you use those single dips for a buff or two from a caster. Taking a level of Chanter to gain a buff Chant and invocation might happen periodically, but I bet those high level pure class abilities would be worth more than what the Chanter single dip would give. The skill system can't be gamed like 3.5, and the feat/talent system can't be gamed the same way. So, even if Obsidian went a more 3.5 route the major issues with build complexity that many have won't be a problem. That said, there might be a few new ways to game it, but likely won't be nearly as meticulously planned out like the NWN builds were. To each their own. I hate AD&D's MC system, but I am ok with Deadfire ATM. I'd still prefer a more 3.5 approach, but not enough to complain too much about what we have.

This is like a custom adventurer for the beta, not a companion or sidekick, right? Yeah. Beta party is filled by a generic fighter, rogue, wizard, and priest. No real companions.