Ganrich

Yeah, I definitely remember complaining about it. Same here. I'd put background and history selections after Race but before class selections. Basically, Sex>Race>History/background>class>etc.

Unless I am mistaken, an interrupt only resets their cast time, as opposed to wasting the spell ? No, interrupts now cause the spell to be used. So, if your Priest is interrupted while casting Circle of Protection and you only have one cast per encounter of third level spells... now you have no more third level spells. As long as enemies have the same limits on casting as you and your party (which I believe they do based on my limited testing) you can effectively shut an enemy caster down. Crossbows are incredibly good in Deadfire because of their modal. Definitely a weapon to consider in any ranged/interrupt build.

Yeah, I kind of do. However, it really will depend on the requirement levels in the core game. I definitely get that feeling, but it's hard to see if it is an issue just within the beta' scope.

No idea. The only thing that reminds me of Tyranny at all is the boots you find that let you hop across the battlefield which is a bit more actiony than typical PoE. Otherwise IMHO the game feels like PoE.

Shifter/Troubadour or Shifter/Skald are both solid IMHO. They both work, and maybe Skald a little better. You can't cast spells while shifted, BUT you keep chanting. You start combat with a cast of Nature's Mark or Hel-Hyraf, Shift, tear stuff up, return to Kith form to cast another spell/invocation or two (also when you want to switch chants), and pick your next form. You can come out of Shifted form at anytime to cast some spells, and you have all 5 forms available per encounter. So, you don't feel obligated to stay in form at all. I was commonly hopping into Wolf shape to do a knock down, pound a few times, and switch back to casting. Thematically you have a love of options. You have enough spell options between the two classes to make something for every element. Corruption/necromancy type? Check. Fire element type? Check. Electricity type? Check. Ice themed type? Check. EDIT: Clumped enemies? Cast "At the Sound of his Voice" for a paralysis on them, and shift to Stag to get some carnage opportunities.

I'd expect chargen to be correct. Otherwise a player would feel cheated. It being a beta makes me wonder. The Skald is described as a more frontline style of play. There is a great deal of missing info in Character Gen. Example off the top of my head: No Racial passives listed (it lists attribute bonuses, but not things like Minor Threat for Hearth Orlans). However, on your character sheet post character generation has Minor Threat listed. So, CharGen isn't 100% accurate, and this leads me to believe the Character Sheet is more accurate. I made a Bug post, and will update here when/if I get a response.

When creating a Skald it says in the tooltip that "Weapon Criticals have a 50% chance to grant a Phrase." However, on your character sheet in game it says "Melee Weapon Criticals have a 50% chance to grant a Phrase." Given the Subclasses description as being more "Toe-to-toe" in combat style I would assume that it indeed requires a melee weapon. So, clearing that up would be good. I am eager too learn if you can use Ranged weapons to build Phrases with the Skald, or not. Thanks you all!! I'm enjoying fiddling around with the beta.

+50% to get phrase when you do a melee crit and offensive invocations cost -1 phrase. -not offensive invocations cost +1 phrase. It is a "weapon Crit" in CharGen. Are we sure it only works in melee? I think it is basically all Crits from weapons. So, a Skald could be an archer as well as a melee Character. At least that is how I have read it. EDIT: It does say melee weapons on the Character Sheet. Blah. So, it states weapon damage crits at CharGen, and Melee weapon Crits on Char sheet. I am sure you are right.

Nope. It is definitely a guessing game, BUT some chanter Invocations are in the 2.5 to 5 meter range and you can use them as a point of reference. Also, the Recovery time increase isn't huge, and Sure-handed Ila and Rapid shot should make up for it for sure. At the Sound of His Voice has a larger cone than the Level 1 damage Invocations. Also, Hel-Hyraf is in between those two in cone size, and much better in Deadfire than PoE1 IMHO. It feels more noticeable when you use it. The play style you're describing works IMHO. Hel-Hyraf and At the Sound of His Voice are both considered Offensive Invocations and as such are good picks for the Skald. My testing of the added Penetration on close range (within 4m) Invocations seems to indicate that it doesn't work, but that is fine. Buff Chants, and Debuff invocations like mentioned above should do fine. Hearth Orlan racial "Minor threat" = 10% of hits convert to crits. Sharpshooter - 15% of hits converted to crits with shots outside of 4m (which is where you should be given your deflection). I don't know if these stack yet. Or if they both have a separate chance to proc, but I built this guy as a Hearth Orlan. Sharpshooter/Skald that focuses on Debuff/CC invocations and buff Chants like Sure-Handed Ila still a great combo IMHO. You and your Animal Comp do the damages while you can toss out some buff Chants and CC/Debuff enemies as the battle wages. All the Ranger active abilities would work well with this build IMHO. There isn't anything that would hamper your style choices that I can see. Keep in mind that you get weapon proficiencies pretty quickly (you get 3 by the end of the beta at level 7 or so). So, you can have hunting bow for Rapid Shot, War Bow for Pen Modal, and maybe Xbow for Interrupting big spells (that's what the Xbows modal does and it is worth a quick swap sometimes). You can focus on the Hunting Bow and use one of the other two when you need them. No worries. My 4 favorite PoE classes were Chanter, Ranger, Druid, and Monk. Chanter being #1, and I really love the facelift Chanters got. They really mix well with almost every class. So, IMHO, if you want know if Chanter/X works? It's probably a yes depending on your Subclasses and talent selections. My two favorites so far are Skald/Soul Blade (Cipher), and Troubadour/Shifter. Troubadour Chants work while shifted. So, you can debuff enemies, build phrases, and melee while Shifted. Then come back to kith form, drop a druid spell, cast your Invocation and shift again. Really fun. Really active playstyle. Couldn't recommend it more. EDIT: IMPORTANT - Skald on Character Gen says "Weapon" Damage Crits give 50% chance of building 1 Phrase Counter. However, on your Character Sheet in game it says "MELEE" weapon Damage. I would expect the Character Sheet is correct. So, I would look at Troubadour or a pure Chanter for your build if you aren't into the summoning aspect of the class.

Chanter still has summon invocations, and its phrases need to be within 5m to work on enemies (if it's a Debuff) and/or party members (buffs). This means if your Phrases are buffs you can sit back a bit, and toss out summons or party buffs with your Invocations pretty easily. You have 3 Chanter Subclasses: Beckoner - Summons twice the number of creatures as Invocation normally does. Those summons are immune to Abjuration from Paladins. Summons cost 1 less phrase to cast. They have less health and are smaller than typical Chanter summons Skald - Offensive invocations cost less to cast. Weapon Criticals have a 50% chance to gain you a Phrase. Non-offensive invocations cost 1 more phrase to cast. Many offensive invocations in the beta are pretty close range. So it might not be the best choice. Troubadour- Linger on phrases lasts longer. Get Brisk Recitation Modal that decreases both chant time and linger time allowing you to build phrases faster. All Invocations cost 1 more phrase to cast. Basically, this Chanter focuses more on Chants than Invocations, but its modal allows it to switch to a faster Invocation build time when necessary. Then you have the base chanter class which works much like PoE1. One exception is higher level Chants don't have longer cast times than lower level ones. So, you don't sacrifice you Invocations for a better phrase given the situation in combat. Then there are 3 Ranger Subclasses: Sharpshooter - Bonus Hit to Crit conversion when attacking targets over 4m away. Bonus Penetration when attacking targets under 4m away. They recover slower, and have lower deflection. This sounds like a good fit for you. Stalker - You and your companion gain bonus Deflection and Armor Rating when they are within 4m of one another. Bonded Grief kicks in when you and your companion are outside of 7m from one another. Basically, it's a melee build. Ghost Heart - Immune to Bonded Grief. Animal Companion is immune to engagement. Your animal companion is summoned at the beginning of combat (costs you resources and; has a time limit before disappearing). The animal is considered a spirit and can be effected by Spirit targeting spells. The animal cannot be healed. Then you have the run of the mill Ranger. Given your desires, I would look at Sharpshooter/Beckoner or Sharpshooter/Troubadour. If you want summons then Beckoner, but if you want more buffs and an occasional spell then Troubadour. Building your chants as buffs would be best since you'll likely be a bit far back to effect all the baddies with Debuffs. Skald would be odd, but doable I think. Most offensive spells mean you have to be closer than a ranger would normally like. Although there are a few that have a decent cone or large AoE circle. The sharpshooter bonus's don't imply weapons are required. So, a Sharpshooter/Skald might be cool. Close within 4m to use your Invocations to gain bonus Penetration on them, and move back away afterwards to gain bonus that converts some hits to crits. The Skald also has a 50% chance to gain a Phrase Counter when critting with weapons. If playing the positioning game is your thing then this might be a possibility. Of course you want to get the phrase Sure-handed Ila to reduce your ranged attacks and reload speeds. Chanter/Ranger should be perfectly viable. I just have a few more builds I want to give a go before I try one personally. Im looking at both the Sharpshooter/Troubadour and a Skald/Stalker at some point. An undead themed Ranger/Chanter would work with Ghost Heart/Beckoner. Basically a NecroArcher type build. I think the Chanter class plays well with most classes in the multiclass game. So I don't think you can lose much trying. These suggestions all look fun to me. PS - My curiosity has gotten the better of me. Thinking this out has me building a Sharpshooter/Skald to see how that works.

The more I play, the more useful I find Empower. That could just be me.

They want sound to attract unaware enemies. So, guns being loud will have a drawback vs bows which are quiet. To move back and forth between your Multiclasses you click the icon at the top left. The one with Sword and shield is the Fighter icon, and the other is Rogue. Ignore the "previous" button unless you wish to go back to the previous part of CharGen. Some hyperlinks/tooltips are in the game yet, either. This is called a beta, but from what they've said it's more like an alpha. So, some UI isn't finished, and the UI at CharGen has been brought up as obtuse and problematic. Things will change, but as of now it is what it is.

There are a few fights where new enemies appear mid-combat.

Inside that dungeon, there is a fight with spiders, and the same thing happened to me. I had to reload, and it didn't happen the next time. You may have to go back a few saves if necessary. Anyway, it isn't specific to that fight that Im aware of. I have cleared it 3-4 times and not had the issue. I hope this helps.

Even someone like me that is kind of Ok with how things are isn't going to complain about more talents all around.

Actually, I built a Troubadour/Evoker. High Intellect and Perception. Positioned mid-field using the concentration removing phrase (Thick Grew their tongues) so that it effected as many enemies as I could safely, and when those backline enemies started casting I hit them with Thrust of Tattered Veils and nearly consistently interrupted them. It worked well enough, and a Chanter/Monk or Chanter/Fighter could do much the same without the hairy positioning and general squishiness. It wasn't the best build I have made in the beta, but it worked. I do get what your saying, and I do think most builds will only pick up one or 2 phrases, but you can build the other way around and be pretty efficient. You would have a situational debuff/buff for every situation and you can adjust as needed. Plus it isn't like there are a slew of Invocations to select. Although, I like being able to upgrade the Invocations down at higher levels. An upgraded Hel-Hyraf is bananas. I am about to build a Skald/Barb to see how that upgrade works with Carnage. It will probably be silly. I do hope the Phrases actually get more potent at higher levels. I just don't think making them too much more potent by adding effects to what is there when they are always available (requiring no resources to use) is wise.

I agree to an extent. Although, you might make a Paladin/Chanter that uses Phrases and Auras as a frontline buff/debuff focus point. Alternating between different phrases depending on whether you need party buffs or the enemy needs debuffs. Most of your actives would come from your other class. Also, with them being situational you could fill out some gaps. This is an incentive in and of itself. With the minimal level gains in the beta... it is hard to see how they scale or if they scale. I would assume some do and some don't. A Bleakwalker/Chanter would probably want Come soft winds of death or another debuff, but a Ranger/chanter would want Ila for ranged recovery increase. A Fire Godlike Barbarian/Skald might want Dragons Thrashed to add more AoE to his kit than just carnage. Either way, I think the freedom means players can just grab the ones they want and focus the rest on Invocations, OR there second class. I don't see this, necessarily, as a bad thing.

Oh, I am definitely not saying that is all the ranger needs. Particularly the Stalker. Just giving the general idea of what might be an appropriate olive branch in respect to the grievances of the thread.

I think this might work, and the classes that currently have these things as talents could get something to further specialize them in these styles. For instance, a Fighter could gain bonus accuracy or damage as a Weapon Mastery type of Talent. A Ranger get a further bonus to Marksman or gunner, as well. I would move them a little further down the class tree to require some investment in the class before obtaining them. Heck, they might get those now after level 5 for all we know. I don't know.

Yeah, I always thought that a graze should just be a debuff for the spell's duration, but a hit or crit should apply the CC. Example: Mass Paralysis = A graze causes a debuff, but no hard CC (something like Hobble). A hit causes CC. A Crit causes CC plus the Hobble-like effect after the CC wears off. Maybe that is too potent, but I think it's pretty good on paper.

Agreed, and I would say that my major issue is Penetration. The game is rough if you don't bump it, or lower your enemies. While the game is a breeze if you do. It is a bit too much of a Boolean value in how it feels. Do you have pen or a debuff that lowers armor? If true, you win. Do you have pen or a debuff that lowers armor? If false, watch everyone do no damage and get stonewalled. It could be partially how level scaling works, but it feels like Pen is the culprit. I'm fine with longer casting times if the spells are worth it, but some spells feel like you wait 3 seconds for nothing. This could tie back into Pen, but something doesn't feel right, regardless. I am not against the lack of grazes, but all this combine feels odd compared to PoE1. That said, the lack of grazes DOESN'T feel odd compared to the Infinity Engine games, and I am fine with it being the way it is if other issues are ironed out. I'm fine with the injury system, tbh. It can be rough, but it immediately made me focus on keeping people alive vs select all and doggie pile. I like that. To each their own.

Without getting into the rest of your post, this doesn't seem to be the case in the backer beta. Every class just gets some weapon proficiencies and you can pick as you will, there don't seem to be any particular class/level restrictions. Warriors can use wands at whatever level they get to pick a weapon proficiency and wizards can pick greatsword proficiency. Plus the main thing a proficiency does is just unlock a modal, you don't *need* it. I think they meant Weapon Focus, but I could be wrong. I think these proficiency modals will allow for some neat builds. Small Shields gives a modal that when you're missed by an enemy melee you gain accuracy on the next attack (at the cost of recovery). A Shattered Pillar/Bleak Walker would use this well. Build wounds through melee, use Monk abilities as the wounds build, and when the enemy misses your next Flames of Devotion gets bonus accuracy. You could use a Warhammer with this too. That modal increases Pen at the expense of Recovery. This is in theory. I haven't tried it yet. A similar idea could be used with the Shattered Pillar/Soul Blade. Or you could swap Shattered Pillar for Devout, or some other melee class. I haven't looked too deeply into them, and some seem a bit too similar. However, I am looking for neat combos like this right now.

I just don't think it's fair to look at SC characters in a vacuum when discussing the variety of the class system of the game. MC and SC characters are both parts of a whole. Ying and Yang if you will. So, it IS about MC IMHO. Because what we are looking at are ramifications of adding MCing to the game. That said, this is one of the reasons why I said (when we were asked about it around the Fig Campaign) I would've much preferred a MC system akin to 3rd edition than this 2nd edition-esque system. The way Munchkin builds in 3rd edition turned people off was because (predominantly) of how skill points (arbitrary skill caps based on class level, and skill point carry over from one level to the nex) and Feats were distributed, and people used the MC system to maximize. Also, powerful level one abilities were a problem. None of those issues would be present here, really. Then you could have a 1 level fighter for Sword and Board Talent, and go the rest pure Paladin. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be better than this IMHO. I'm still a bit fuzzy on how high level abilities unlock as you level when MCed. I don't necessarily disagree that I think giving the Pally a Sword and Board talent, and a 2 hander talent would be a bad thing. Given the UI we have... I just don't see how we can get universal talents/feats without a huge overhaul. Adding Talents to some class trees? I think we could definitely get that. @IndiraLightfoot - I could definitely see exclusive talents for SC being possible. High level class talents will definitely be there. The other two on your list... I have much less hope for.

Excuse me ? (Well no, actually, excuse yourself) DA:O was the only DA worth playing o_O The 2 others were retarded hack'n'slashes... </derail> Sorry, but I don't think you understood what I was saying. So, excuse "you" would be correct. Skyrim's Q system was a control design that was built for controllers. Hit Q, select ability to equip, press trigger to fire. DAI's top down controls didn't use the mouse. So, it was designed for controllers again. They were console trash. This game is mouse driven, with mouse based UI, and so on. And as such it isn't a Console game.

It isn't Skyrim with a Q cast button. Nor is it DA: I with janky top down controls obviously designed with controllers in mind. So, no, it isn't a console game.