neo6874

Can't recall any RPG where "avoid known danger" (trap, campfire, etc that you're allowed to walk through) was part of the pathfinding. I mean, yeah, your rogue might know about it, but the rest of the party can't pick it out until it's either flagged (equivalent of "disabled" in some games) or disabled/removed/etc. With that said though,I can't really think of any party-based/tactical RPGs that have pathing that goes through "dangerous" placeables (such as a campfire). Attacks of Opportunity depend on the way the game works -- if it's D&D based, the only way to avoid AoO is to only back off 5' (1 square) from their reach on a given turn (then full move is OK the next turn, so long as you don't pass into/out of a threatened square again). it's a bit harder to accomplish in a RTwP cRPG, since the turns don't really match up with what's happening on screen, so when the pathing is figured out for a character, an enemy might move into a position where they can get an AoO "out of turn"...

Still a better game than DA:O

They delved too deep and greedily in their pursuit of Mithra... oh wait, wrong creepy endless dungeon . Actually, "it was a city" is a pretty good reason to make it deep from the get go -- I mean, Baldur's Gate is what, 5 or 6 areas? So these guys built their city vertically rather than horizontally for some reason...

Yeah, I see where you were getting at now -- I got hung up on your Moria example because it happened "recently" in the history/legends of Middle Earth, whereas Od Nua seems to have been completely lost to time, and people will just refer to it as "an evil place", rather than actually knowing what happened there.

Does anyone happen to have any Acid Flasks, or Alchemist's Fire?

I like the comparison, but Moria is still "too new" I think -- there is still "active knowledge" of Khazad Dum during the time when Frodo et. al. are forced to travel through it (that is - it's not some forgotten ruin that is only referenced in myth and legend). I'd rather see it as something like what was described by Josh (I think?) -- you're pretty much told to stay away, because of the legends that surround the temple (or whatever it was) ... so after you finish off the bad guy (when you're there for the story), there should be a draw to go ever deeper, just for the sake of it. Don't get me wrong - treasure and traps and puzzles and whatever else they throw down there will be fun too ... but I'd rather see it as "get to level 5, answer one question ... and get two more" rather than "get to level 5, get something cool".

Not entirely sure where you were going with this one ... Most cRPG games (IMO) kinda break things because they list the weapon as ineffective even if you should be able to damage (i.e. it's bad design). For example, in BG, you've got someone with a standard shortbow & arrows, fighting some skeletons (say in the 4th level of the Nashkel Mines). You'll get "Weapon Ineffective" notices even though you SHOULD be able to damage them on a max damage roll. In my (limited) PnP experience, very few creatures are actually "immune" to damage from the "wrong" damage type ... but have DR enough that it's kinda pointless (e.g. skeletons you'd probably want a club for, rather than wasting arrows).

Have read through this a few times, and have been mulling it over for a few days now. The big problem is that there's a split between what makes something "mature" in a literary sense (e.g. Tolkien) and in an "other entertainment" sense. Movies and games generally get "mature" when there's blood and gore and whatnot. Books (while not having a "mature" rating) will generally make it to the "teen" or "young adult" section for this -- granted, since they're literary and not visual, apparently huge fights, etc. are suitable for a 13 year old. Anyway, with PoE, I think Obsidian is going to try taking it the route of "literary mature" rather than "Movies" in that they're trying to tell a story with the dark overtones and have something a little stronger than " May contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling and/or infrequent use of strong language." as with a "Teen" rating. In other words, Obsidian doesn't want to gimp their storytelling/atmosphere because of the limitations imposed by trying to get a lower rating. This has happened in film as well -- in 1981 when Raiders came out, Speilberg had to change some scenes, because the MPAA would have otherwise given it an 'R' rating (or equivalent, as there was no 'PG-13' until '84). Most notable one I can remember is after the Germans opened the Ark, and all died -- guy whose head explodes had more flames added post-production to cover it up a bit.

Changed the name after the kickstarter more or less (also, I think the "new" version gets less swag in it -- though since you backed via KS, you'll get whatever was promised in KS).

partially -- you can quest for the Necronomicon ... but perhaps you need it for your research into making Lich's Bane (or whatever) ... it all ties together (but, honestly, in P&P a lot of the "research" is abstracted out (d20+[whatever] vs DC) because whatever you find is just told to you verbally, rather than something you can actually read/research).

I take it you've never played with a DM giving you a personal side-quest to find the Necronomicon, or other crazy "hey this sounds cool" type things then?

I'd expect it to have "some" level scaling, but the proper scaling akin to P&P RPGs --> i.e. a CR6 encounter might have anywhere from 4-12 scorpions (1d3 scorpion * 4) ... but then if you're needing to scale it to CR8 (minimum is CR4 * 4), you would have maybe 4-8 ankhegs or another NPC party (2nd level adventurers) ... or maybe the CR6 group of scorpions, plus the other adventurers (i.e. they're killing each other).

5/7 would be OK - although I'm having a hard enough time fitting "all the things" they want to do into 6 stats... Yes and no -- I think the names you've given here are "too close" for me. I mean, "Accuracy" for a bow is somewhat dependent on your strength and discipline (i.e. "being able to keep your muscles tensed the right way so the bow doesn't shake) ... but for a sword, it should be more dependent on dexterity (i.e. can you feint and parry/riposte well enough that you can land a hit). In either case (Strength/Dexterity), you'll be adding to your accuracy, AND deflection (DEX) OR damage (STR) -- but it's backwards. Split. I mean, if they're married, they'd probably end up under constitution (or equivalent). While this isn't "bad" per se; you can see it in reality here where people have high constitution (i.e. don't get sick that often, etc.) but are poorly conditioned (can't run a mile, lose their breath easily, etc.) Making things attribute-independant can get messy, though if it was done like the "save stats" in D&D (Reflex/Will/Fort), then it could still work out easily. "Random" (chance-based) can be very very bad in cRPGs. Within reason. During a fight or something, yeah, I could see it having a tactical effect, but if you're out of combat, things should resolve faster (e.g. "take 10/20"). I hate inventory tetris, so I'd rather see something a little more elegant ... but it's too early to figure something out

The other guys have said it better -- Ostagar (and then the next town ... right before you get to choose the "Elves, Dwarves, or Humans" mission set) was a pain in the rear, especially on a second playthrough. I've actually started a new character after about a year of not playing (maybe I was doing it wrong with [race|class]) ... got as far as Ostagar, and remembered immediately why I hadn't played in ages. The "stories" you hear about each of the races (or at least the "elven quarter" in teh Human town and the Dalish ... can't remember the problem the dwarves had right now) made it sound a lot more like "oh yeah, this happened a few days ago" and not "last month sometime before Duncan came and took away the troublemaker" -- I mean, they could have made the pre-ostagar stories better match the goings-on afterwards (e.g. as a Dalish, you're not taken to Ostagar, but Alastir meets you, and is like "well, crap ... uh, we can try...")

Why would I pay more money for the game to be availiable in other platform? Especialy that on the android the performance of the game may be less enticing Because other people play other platforms, and it also only makes sense financially to port it to other platforms. I hate to repeat myself but Obsidian has fans on other platforms, too. Just because PoE is primarily a PC games doesn't mean it would stay that way. They plan on making a sequel and an expansion. They just have the luxury right now, because of the Kickstarter funds, to make a primarily PC version. Gnostic's question isn't so much what he wrote -- but more the question of "why should I spend more money, with the end result of making PE worse?" If you dig around a bit (I forget which thread it was, sorry) -- even Obsidian has stated that a "controller UI" would force them to make sacrifices to the UI code that will result in two "okay" interfaces instead of one good one. As for the expansions and sequels and whatnot -- well, if the first game is good, they probably don't have too much to worry about...

Ugh... No. I don't want that. Padlocking dungeon advancement until "X is killed" Or "Y gives you a revelation" is a bad idea for a few reasons. 1) it's an excessive, and even arbitrary, limit to player freedom, all in the name of a plot's deus ex machina (ie. The door or stairs down is forever locked until the Boss is killed. Then it just magically opens once his heart stops beating!) I see this as no different from the modern day developer practice of not allowing a boss fight to occur until the obligatory cut scene has triggered. 2)imposing such a rule for every single level will get really old.... really fast. it'll feel gamey and soullessly mechanical.... the opposite of organic and natural. 3) Contrary to the notion that getting lost in a dungeon is a bad thing, I like seeing stairs, wings, forks and other elements of choice in my dungeon delving. It IS called the Endless paths of Od Nua, after all, not: "The singular path of Od Nua." I would hope that it lives up to its name, and that each level has multiple ways up, down and out. The alternative is to just promote linearity. And the idea of a linear 15 level dungeon nauseates me. Sorry - I appear to not have been as clear as I thought I was. 1. I'm only using that list as a "safety feature" dependent on the design of the dungeon, because your party goes there as part of the storyline too. If it's possible to accidentally walk into the Endless Paths (which have nothing to do with the storyline) and believe you're following the storyline dungeon, it will be extremely frustrating to players. 2. The "Locked/Hidden/Warded Door" is only at the entrance to the Endless Paths. After that, the only thing blocking your progression will be the things that call the Endless Paths "home". 3. Getting lost in a dungeon is fun. Going the wrong way (without knowing it) and believing that you have no other choice is not fun (see: the first/second "Lets Play Arcanum" with Chris Avellone for examples -- he spends like 40+ minutes trying to fight wolves because he's going the wrong way).

OK, I re-read your OP, and it sounds like Obsidian has told you they've credited your account the amount of your KS pledge. Have you looked there yet (http://eternity.obsidian.net/backer/index) to see if there's any credit on your account? Should look like this: Total Credit Available $xx0.00

@Neo You should read more carefully. I said substracting from AC and THOAC is actually a good thing according to AD&D 2nd Edition rules and nothing about +5 equipment mechanics. You are preaching to choir, mate. I was questioning this part: as to whether it had the relevance to the quip Hassat made about "bringing a newbie in his underwear and a -2 weapon". I misread it as you saying a "-2 sword" was somehow better, since "subtracting from AC/THACO".

I think his whole point is "15 levels is too much", regardless of whether it's above-, or under-ground. Remember, "dungeon" is the catch-all term that we ascribe to most of the "typical" labyrinths that we will get sent to -- regardless of whether it's actually a "dungeon" or not (e.g. crypts, caves, etc). As for "purpose" of the PC exploring this place - because it's there. As for the "historical" purpose - who knows, it's in the Ruins of Od Nua though ... so that might have something to do with it. As for the levels -> remember, just because the thing is "15 levels" doesn't mean that the builders excavated all of them. Maybe they excavated 10 levels, and then ran into a massive underground cavern (or, like Stun said, maybe there's some stuff above ground too -- though I would hope that the "depths" would actually be physically locked off*, because I'm the type to go "ooh! stairs!" and go the wrong way.) *I don't particularly like the idea of "find a key" on every level, but any hook like the following could be used to open it up (assuming "keep" plus "basement"): The door to the basement (and lower 13 levels) is warded, they drop when you kill BBEG. Upon killing BBEG, you hear a collapse in the lower levels Upon killing BBEG, you find a note talking about there being a secret door in the fireplace in the basement, and you have to find the lost treasure so you can save your home from being turned into a golf course (oh wait ... wrong story ) Upon returning to the original quest giver, you're told more stories of Od Nua that reference the lower depths of the ruins (go to lowest level, now you can find the secret door) Upon checking out the tavern after finishing the quest, some other adventuring party talks about the depths beneath the keep (same thing - you now find the secret door in the lowest accessible level) If it's all "basement", then it could be as simple as "find a letter on the BBEG indicating the ruins go deeper than you currently are" Edit because of a lot of posts just came up: Remember guys, it's 15 levels overall, but you're not intended to do them in one go. From the sound of it, you can do only so many levels at any one time, because the dungeon scales WAY faster than your characters. For the ease of numbers, let's say the following: L1-3 -> the "storyline" levels, built for ECL4 party L4-6 -> built for ECL7 L7-9 -> built for ECL10 L10-12 -> built for ECL13 L13-15 -> built for ECL16 "built for" means that a party of a particular ECL will find it "challenging, but not overpowering". Now, I'm just assuming the "lowest" level of each 3-floor "step" -- maybe L4/5 can be done at ECL5, but there's something on L6 that requires you to be L7 (or lucky, a very good tactician, etc at L6). Going back to D&D "guidelines", a general encounter with the CR matched to the PCs should expend about 20% of their stuff (spells, potions, HP, wand charges etc) by the end of the fight. So a party of ECL 5 can fight 4 CR5 encounters (or 10 CR3, or 20 CR1), or maybe 1-2 CR 6/7.

Not really following what you're trying to say here ... I think it's in reply to this line: edit - oi, why'd this get eaten? "THACO" is just the roll you need to make on d20 to hit AC0. All other things being equal, a +5 weapon will mean you have a 35% better chance to hit the other guy than with a -2. (e.g. with a BAB of +5, you'll end up with THACO of 10 instead of 17). Armor works the same, it's just that the display is backwards -- e.g. "+5 full plate" will have AC -3 instead of AC 2 (AC 13 vs. AC 8 for 3.x).

I'll second this. They probably just gave you "in store credit" for use towards the upgrade. Try going back through the "confirmation" steps in the backer portal, and you'll probably see the $100 (or whatever) you gave them during the KS campaign. Not sure about the OP, but in my case (where my pledge was canceled so I could re-finalize it and add the add-on I forgot) they did refund me the money as Paypal credit; not as store credit. Depends on how he actually funded them. If he backed through Kickstarter (instead of just direct via paypal, like you did), it might be easier for them to just do the "instore credit" (since the money flow was bank -> "KS giftcard" -> Obsidian, and backing that out would take even longer). Checking the backer portal takes all of 15 seconds, but if it's not there, then yeah the only real options are "wait a few more days" (banks are slow) or "wait til next year" (since Obsidian support people are pretty much out for the rest of the year).

The only problem I see with this is the DA problem you mentioned -- the opening scenes are fun, but then ~Ostagar~. Honestly, I'd like it better if there was a way to skip through the "starting location" stuff. E.G. like in NWN 2 -- the fair is really the tutorial, and you can just choose to skip it. So, if they did that, and you could just instawarp to "getting off the boat in Defiance Bay", that'd be nice too...

I want it to have ~no~ story whatsoever after the first 1-2 levels (or howevermuch is touched in the main storyline). It's just "there" and calling to us "because adventure, that's why". But I hope they do it [edit -- the "no next quest" thing] gracefully -- e.g. you finish the quest for the necromancer (or whatever BBEG that's the original hook to get you in there), and tell whoever asked you and then you're DONE with the quest chains. Sure, you'll have a hook to get back to ... uh, I dunno, Twin Elms (Defiance Bay?) ... but not necessarily a big one. E.G. cleaning out the Nashkel Mines in BG1 and getting the 1000 GP for it -- "well, time to hit up Beregost and get more +1 arrows" (but you didn't read the letter saying there's a mook in one of hte inns). IMO, feels more "free" that way -- yeah, you know there's more stuff in front of you, but it's not "quest, quest, quest, quest".

Human sorcerer Wizard for me ... because fire (seriously, the biggest reason I hated Quara in NWN2 was because I didn't need a NPC to play me...)

I'll second this. They probably just gave you "in store credit" for use towards the upgrade. Try going back through the "confirmation" steps in the backer portal, and you'll probably see the $100 (or whatever) you gave them during the KS campaign.