neo6874

That actually looks really nice. Thing is, it also looks like it's probably going to "work" in exactly the way that Lephys is wanting to avoid. But, we'll have to wait and see what Obsidian comes up with.

Thing is, your proposals will really only work in a MMO (or long-lived PW) setting. I mean, for a campaign setting; it's just "easier" to know "platinum boots + [any "fire" spell] + 24,000 GP = Platinum Boots of Fire Walking +2" (DR 15 to any incoming fire damage), or that "Well made silk cloak + beholder's eye + [some spell] + 100k GP = Robe of Seeing", rather than having to hunt down things that may (or may not) be there. There's only so much progression outside of the storyline that a particular skillset (be it crafting or fishing or whatever) can actually have when you're looking at it from a campaign perspective -- I mean, The Spine of the World might have the best ores in all of Faerun ... but if the game doesn't take place there, you're kinda screwed. I think some of it is also the realization that it's "damn hard" for a hard-coded game to be dynamic in the quests -- I mean if I'm playing a PnP game, all I have to do is send an email/text/etc to the DM saying "hey, so I wanna make a Philosopher's Stone." All the DM has to do is add in a hint or something on a scrap of parchment in posession of BBEG (and keep notes that yeah, I picked up "hint 5"), and we're good. a cRPG on the other hand can only go so far in expecting things, and the devs cannot possibly account for every whim of every player ... Edit -- and on top of this, there's only so much they can do before it just becomes easier (for everyone) to abstract out to "these things in, this thing out".

Reading through this post (again), it sounds like you're kind of looking for a Dungeon Siege style of bows -- where you were required to have a certain STR/DEX to actually use. Although, in DS I recall that your attributes changed as you did things (so using heavy weapons got you str, bows dex, and various spells their various schools). Granted, if this follows in the footsteps of most D&D-esque IE games, you're not going to be getting DEX/STR(/whatever) very often, so they'd need to be very clear about that from the start (or limit the "off attribute" in some way so that your ranger doesn't get gimped, because you have only 15 STR, and won't be able to get another point for 3 more levels ... at which time, the 16STR bows will be "too weak").

This, so much this. I was pretty floored at the big reveal in that game (moreso than KOTOR1)... and then how you were much better able to (see your) influence (over) your other companions.

This, 1000 times this. At least with a 3D camera, terrans can't hide missile turrets underneath their floating buildings anymore, those jerks. doesn't save them against the OMGWTFZERGLING rush 2 minutes into the game

haha, well, yeah "playing games" in and of itself is a 'time sink' (and that's their point). What I meant about crafting in general was that it's (supposed to be) a time-sink in the same way that a side-quest is -- it's something else to do while you're playing, so that the game takes longer to complete (or, in the case of multiplayer - something that keeps you logging in). Definitely agree with the "spending sanity" when crafting in some games -- others do it relatively well ... though the unfortunate thing with (most) RPG campaign settings is that either: a) it's a poorly implemented afterthought b) it's a poorly implemented for the campaign (but works out pretty well in non-campaign settings). Which just ends up at "crafting grind ... I hate this" during the campaign, and generally causes one to find alternatives for a multiplayer server (assuming it's not just running the campaign). I think for a campaign setting your idea could work, but realistically there are a lot of limitations that are imposed by the campaign itself, and other aspects that the game designer made (such as the map/traveling between areas).

I actually find the older games easier because of their being locked to 4:3 resolutions --> everything stays where it's supposed to be, in that it's not a "far" travel to click on the "Drink the potion nao!!!" button when something bad happens to the party (which, in my case is more likely to happen than anything else).

Well, it was a grind if I wanted to be making the necklace itself. Seriously though, there's not a single game I can think of where the crafting system isn't grind-y in some fashion -- I mean, the whole point of it is "time sink". Though, I think I explained that system exceptionally poorly in my previous post. it wasn't nearly as bad as I made it out to be (well, assuming you didn't try doing it yourself with "sub-par" attributes). For example, I had a low charisma character, and was terrible at gemsetting (no, no idea why cha mattered, but I didn't make the crafting system). It took me like a full week of trying to make that first item (because only had the gold to obtain enough materials to make 1-2 per day) ... but in the interim, I met people who didn't need to buy all the things, and who could make the jewelry better (more reliably) than I could. So, it became a system of "searos can mine and packmule the ores", "Ganden can refine the ores", "Darcee can make the jewelry", and "I can enchant all the things (and make potions and other wizard-y things)". Each one of us would have found one (or more) parts extremely grindy ... but working together we ended up being able to make the top-end stuff in relatively short time (like by character level 10 or 15, where the server moderators expected that to not be possible til 20+ ...).

This kinda reminds me of the KoTOR games... at least in some senses: KotOR1 - Malak is the bad guy from pretty early on, since Revan was taken out ~somehow~ by Bastila (who I found more or less useless for a Jedi). stuff happens and you're fighting Malak, where you end up getting a choice --> fall to the dark side, or not (add more game here). KotOR2 -- Kreia acts as a mentor and helps you re-attune yourself with the Force ... ends up being a Sith Lord who you have to beat down at the end. The replay factor is admittedly pretty low, due to the story arc being pretty linear in these two games, but it wouldn't be impossible to set up the story outcome to be based on the sidequests --> e.g. help out a group to keep a shifty noble in check, he's just some noble ... don't do that quest (or help the noble out somehow) and he's the BBEG at the end... *NOTE -- very glossed over because it's been a long time since I've played either ... (*goes off to find the discs*)

dump stat is an attribute that you don't need. like in DnD a wizard cleric doesn't need intelligence, and thus can take the minimum and it won't have any real noticeable detrimental effects, and the points saved can be put to better use, thus one can drop intelligence to its minimum and raise wisdom to its max and say constitution and end up with a potent cleric, while keeping intelligence at normal and only having above average constitution with high wisdom yields a cleric inferior to the low intelligence one. http://rpggeek.com/wiki/page/RPG_Glossary#D A Wizard/Cleric would need high Intelligence (also Charisma for 'turn undead' and Wisdom for the regular cleric spells).

Mounts -> maybe. It really depends on what other things are in store ... I mean, if "travel time" ends up mattering (say, because you're trying to beat the winter closing off the mountain pass), then mounts would be nice - even if they're just hirelings that are nothing but eye-candy and the game date merely advances 6 days instead of 9 while you get over the pass. Familiars -> absolutely being able to interact with them is awesome. Even better if the AI leaves them alone (until you do something with them -- e.g. attack) ... so instead of the night watchman at (Necromancer's Castle) seeing you and immediately fighting and waking up 37 more guards, you can send your cat familiar close enough to cast a sleep spell on him (then waltz in the front door ... ).

I think that there would be a problem (overall) if a player wasn't able to become a "Master"(whatever) through the course of a single-player campaign -- mostly because there's not always a "good" progression in the game (e.g. you might have a "Master Armorsmith" in Calisham, but you're only there for half a chapter before heading to the Frozen North for the next 2 and a half chapters). This is mostly because you're stuck "on rails" at some point because you have to progress the campaign. Pen and paper games generally don't run into this problem, because you're (generally) able to get out of an area and go back home (or to a large city) without really ever feeling like you're going "backwards" -- you just took a left at the crossroads instead of going on straight ahead. Now, if there was a "sandbox mode" this idea would work out splendidly. Back with NWN, there were loads of different (community generated) crafting systems that, while they did center on the "make 1,000 of the item and gain skill" methodology, a lot of them still required multiple people to get from raw material to finished product due to how "hard" it was. On one of them in particular, I recall needing several friends to get even the basic raw materials for making a copper necklace (or whatever the lowest tier "jewelry" was that was enchantable). It was something like 1. Have strong dumb guy (aka "fighter") bash rocks til copper ore 2. Have slightly more intelligent strong guy smelt the ore 3. try 7,000 times to make the stupid copper necklace, fail all the time, get dexterous person to do it for me 4. Take necklace, enchant with 'bull's strength' 5. Give 'amulet of strength' to the fighters 6. Repeat 4 &5 with different spells for different people This worked (and was pretty fun) because it took ages for you to "cross train" jobs that your attributes weren't set for. I think by the end of that server, I got to a point where I could do the low-level stuff (copper, silver) by myself, with a full rack of maximized bull's strength, cat's grace, etc. However, anything higher tier than the first two metals/jewels/etc was too dangerous for my gimped character (because missing the 5th or 6th level spells, wrong amulet/rings/etc) so I still relied on my friends to help me get the rarer metals/jewels/etc. LIkewise, they relied on me because there was no way they could create a "good" amulet due to them not necessarily having the right spell profile (or no spells at all).

SHHH... some wise guy at Obsidian might just send everyone a pencil and packet of graph paper.

I agree with the general consensus here -- keep it "realistic" with the weapons/armour models ... but at the same time, leave some leeway with descriptions/names. I liked the feel that NWN, The Witcher, etc had -- keeping the weaponry "simple" looking, but effective (and more than the 1-3 "swing sword" animations in the case of The Witcher). If the description of the sword is "it glows", then make it glow with pale light (e.g. Sting from Lord of the Rings), but not the super-particle WoW anime effect ...

Agree that a 'low magic' (or mid-magic) world is more fun, since it comes down to how well you plan ahead. The trouble with this though is that 99.99% of the time, your party is pretty bad at doing what they're supposed to (even when you mess with their AI, if it's customizable at all). That said -- it would be much more engaging of a world if it wasn't as easy to find the really good magic stuff...