Crusty

Strawman. Tone, grotbag's post is a decent summary. Strawman. Perhaps, but this is a subjective opinion likely coloured by your preferences. Strawman. Again. Do you habitually distort arguments just to beat them down? Or is it something you work hard on? Look, you may not agree with Infinitron's points, or more accurately, with how he articulated them. But by reading the other posts in the thread, it's clear that most people grasp what he is trying to say. You're being extremely disingenuous here, and providing little if nothing useful to the topic at hand.

This thread makes me aggro.

I'd like to add that it'd almost be a waste of a new IP with a (presumably) large expanse if the majority of the focus is going to be in only a limited amount of urban environments. I think Infinitron's argument comes down to tone: while it is certainly fun to explore morals, ideologies, factions and societal conflicts, physical exploration is important as well. Exploring the natural world with a party and facing it's challenges, discovering it's secrets and the like provides the player with a tone that lies in contrast of the (usually) heavy tone set in so-called "human centric" and "urban" plotlines. It's almost "refreshing". Having a balance between the two can be important to prevent that heavy tone from choking the player. That's not to say that you can't link exploration and discovery to the overarching narrative, or sideplots. I'd even argue that RPGs ought to do this (a game like New Vegas is a pretty good Obsidian example), but the narrative tone can have somewhat of a stiffling effect on the player if they're not offered some escape from the grim and dark seriousness of overlapping politics, factional infighting and morally charged dilemmas. Well honestly, that may not be what Infinitron feels at all, so I won't presume to speak for him. But that's what I got out of it. Personally, I find enjoyment on any kind of method depending on the execution from game to game. But I certainly wouldn't be opposed to balance in Project Eternity.

I was thinking more like this, I haven't played WoW or MMOs in general, so I'm not familiar with how they do things.

Anybody think this could be a good thing to add for Project Eternity? The closest parallel I can draw in Obsidian games is KotOR 2 and how the game had Lightsaber styles. Except, expand on the concept because the end result in KotOR 2 wasn't all that great. Have a larger range of bonuses and penalties that cover more aspects of combat. For example, a Fighter may choose to utilize a "Pugilist" fighting style, in which they are prohibited or carry massive penalties when using a weapon, and struggle when swamped by multiple enemies. But their ability to dodge melee strikes and hit single targets for criticals is greatly increased. I think if we expand the concept of formations as discussed here, it would work well in combination with fighting styles, especially if the two mechanics intermingle (formations may benefit and add extra bonuses from having the party using a fighting style that suits it). You could have a "no fighting style" to work with as the default and have a couple of basic styles to start off with depending on your class. Then as you explore the gameworld and the story, you may pick up new fighting styles and develop them through interaction with NPCs (trainers and the like). Possibly even fulfilling certain combat conditions against enemies, or reading from libraries or ancient tomes. This would give the player and party the feeling that they are learning and discovering new fighting styles on their own. It would add a little more flair to character development IMO, and it would give the player and party more tactical options especially if enemies were to utilize fighting styles too. Ultimately, some visual feedback to indicate the different fighting styles would be nice, but probably not worth the extra effort. So, Yay or Nay to fighting styles? Any ideas or suggestions to go with it? (Keep in mind that just because I say fighting styles, doesn't mean that it's only for fighters. Every class ought to have their own styles and stances, or ought to draw from a universal pool of styles and stances.)

There should just be natural regeneration of spells/abilities that vary on the specific spell/ability, the current state of the character and any other important aspects like a character's natural abilities or perks. It essentially works as a form of cooldown since it's measured in real time instead of game time and addresses the issue of rest spamming. So, say, every 5 minutes, you regain 1 use of spell X. I am of course assuming that spell slots and limited usage of spells still applies. If we have unlimited usage of spells, it will be hard to design cooldowns as anything other than WoW or Dragon Age-esque. That would be bitterly disappointing. As for people complaining about the spells per day routine we see in VC, tie the spell slots to a resource like mana or something to do with the soul(s). Don't give it a numerical hardcap per level or anything, only limit it to what is capable of the character. So if the character wants to cast 100 magic missiles but is unable to find space for anything else, let 'em. Give each spell and ability a different value, with weaker spells being the least resource intensive and the stronger ones most intensive. That way, you can plan a suite of spells and abilities that rely entirely on the character. That's probably what I'd like to see, assuming we have cooldowns and a non-Vancian way of spell selection.

You can't ****ing make a game that pleases everyone, that's wrong. Damn I hate that attitude. You know what happens then? Dragon Age 2 happens, and Oblivion happens. So you're saying make the game into a encrypted language learning curve ? I would like a game that takes it's cues from the Infinity Engine games and similar types of cRPGs (Arcanum, Fallout, etc). Mainly games that the folks at Obsidian were involved with in the past. On top of that, I would also like to see how Obsidian could use Project Eternity to showcase new and interesting ideas/mechanics for the genre. As a result, I'm perfectly happy to sacrifice many things taken for granted in modern RPGs that don't add all that much: cinematics, full VA, AAA graphics, romances, and mass market appeal. That is what Obsidian promised and that is what I'm hoping for. Why is that desire so foreign to you?

Good thread and completely agreed.

It really depends on the implementation. You could make an argument for things like some chests, barrels, or minor items like gold/gems, etc. But regardless of the implementation of semi-random loot, you want dead enemies to at least drop the items that they were carrying. You don't want someone wailing on you with a magical sledgehammer, then drop a low grade dagger instead because it corresponds with the loot list and level range. That would be incredibly frustrating.

Player initiates actions, character skill determines it's effectiveness.

Where memorization systems (such as Vancian Magic) fail in video games is in it's regeneration. i.e rest spamming. If cooldowns address that issue, while still being tied to memorization and limits, then it's not so bad. You could link the mechanic to the state of your soul and current environment. The weaker you are, the slower it regenerates. While if you're in good heath, it regenerates more quickly. Being in a forest helps nature magic regenerate quicker. Weaker spells regenerate quickest was while the strongest ones would regenerate 1 use every hour or so. That would help emulate what resting did through cooldowns. OTOH, if we're talking about cooldowns as the primary mechanic, then that's awful. What cooldowns do is eliminate the strategic element of preparation as far as spells (and abilities) are concerned. That's where memorization types excelled. It rewarded strategic thinking as well as tactical, by choosing which spells to take and when to use them. Even if that meant you were ill-prepared. Scraping together a win in circumstances where you're unprepared is fun. Cooldowns however, shifts more focus from strategic to "tactical". The problem with this is that the tactical dimension they add here is that of micromanagement. Whether it be spells, abilities or potion spam. In cases where cooldowns are arbitrary timers, it struggles to fun in an RTwP environment because your entire mindset is based not on tactical or strategic considerations, but based entirely on when the cooldowns for your spells/abilities/potions are up. i.e MMOs.

Was going to start my own thread, but I guess I'll bump this. I loved bartering in Fallout and the like, a mixed system definitely is best. It might not rate as important in the grand scheme of things, but it added another dimension to the gameplay IMO. I think with the focus on different cultures in PE, bartering becomes a viable method of interaction with NPCs. There are some cultures that may not recognize or value gold, for example. Or perhaps a certain culture, or faction, or NPCs place different values on different items. Having universal values for items altered by an NPC's culture, faction, location (local economies), etc, could really aid in making the world seem more alive because it forces the player to consider the beliefs and foci of cultures and factions when you interact with them. For example, a organization of knights may highly value quality steel armor and weapons, but would not pay much for light armor such as leather. Then, once you add the skill system into consideration, it opens up new avenues in how to play the game. It could open up bribery as a natural playstyle (offering items valuable to the NPC for quest items if you don't want to steal it or kill the NPC for it) and would nicely complement a charismatic smooth talker character concept. It also helps to compensate for merchants that are low on gold, giving the player a better opportunity to try and get better value for their items, or vice versa if the player is low on gold. As I said, adds another dimension to gameplay.

Apologies if this thread has already been made, but it's something I wanted to bring up. The thread title is pretty self explanatory. We all know that in the Infinity Engine games, spells and abilities didn't operate under a system of cooldowns, it operated under the Vancian Casting Memorization system since they were D&D games and all. Now, with Obsidian not utilising the D&D license for Project Eternity, would you prefer the use of cooldowns in modern (non-action) RPGs like the Dragon Age series, or MMORPGs? Would you prefer the use of Vancian magic? Or would you prefer another alternative? Perhaps a memorization system that works differently the Vancian system? Perhaps a hybrid system that makes use of both memorization and cooldowns. Vote in the poll and register your opinions here.

Creating a character was an absolute joy in Neverwinter Nights 2 and Darklands. Could spend hours creating characters in either game.

Halberds and Pikes would be nice.

Spells that manipulate or factor in the environment would be nice. Not necessarily terrain deforming (which might be difficult to pull off with limited resources), but maybe like Summoning Elementals where you draw on a source (earth, rocks, trees, water, etc) and an appropriate creature comes out as a result.

I remember a post here wondering if a system similar to the Saints System in Darklands could be implemented in Project Eternity. Loved the idea so much, I felt it deserved it's own thread. To clarify, in the cRPG Darklands, there existed a mechanic in which it was possible for characters to learn about, and pray to, certain Saints for help and intervention. Each individual Saint (if successfully prayed to) would grant the character unique (temporary) bonuses to skills, or attributes, or anything, really. Many of these Saints also could be called upon on specific occasions wherein receiving their aid not also granted the PC bonuses, but allowed the party to advance in the game's CYOA sections successfully in the same way a skill check would advance dialog in the player's favour. i.e Calling on a Saint when being pursued by the City Guard in the middle of the night. A flashing light blinds the Guards, allowing the party to escape without incident. To that end, there were skills (Virtue and Religion) that determined the success of prayer and an extra resource (Divine Favour) which would be spent on each prayer attempt. The amount spent was adjustable by the player, giving them more control and opportunity to plan around it. The greater the DF spent, the greater the chance for success. DF could possibly be rejuvinated by going to Mass, Confession or by spending money on donations/tithing, but it was a resource that could not simply be recharged when galavanting around the countryside by chugging down a potion. --- Now here's my question. Would a mechanic similar in nature be a good fit for Project Eternity? Would it be fun? I'm not necessarily speaking of a direct copy paste, but the idea of Deities (whether they be real or fake ones) in the setting as taking a direct hand in the events of mortals would be an interesting angle, not just story wise, but in terms of gameplay too. Perhaps you could link the mechanic to that of your soul. Exchanging Divine Favours and temporary boosts in power for pieces of your soul (which may affect you stats and story wise over the long term). Or something. Yes? No? Ideas or suggestions to add?

That is disturbing to say the least.

Maybe, and apologies if anyone gets offended. But it is what it is. Lots of conventions in RPGs come down to fulfilling power fantasies of some sort. I mean, look at Diablo. Romance in the way we mostly see in BioWare games, just happens to be another. edit: And before someone tells me that "we're not talking about BioWare romances", I used that terminology so that I could pose a hypothetical scenario that wasn't like BioWare's approach to see how people would feel about it.

Out of curiosity, if we had a single romance integrated into the story, how would people feel about that? Assuming a non-BioWarean player centric ego stroking romantic wish fulfillment fantasy approach, what if there is only one romantic character that is only available for straight female PCs as the character were to be a male NPC. The romance would also be apart of the central narrative arc and is an issue that can't be avoided or skipped. You can avoid the romance in the end, but it's an issue that constantly rears it's head and you can't avoid confronting it. How would people feel about that?

Random encounters can be fun. But I wouldn't like them to come across too often if I can help it, nor would I like random encounters to be combat based only. What I would like is to have a variety of encounters that are generated/scripted around your choices and the events going on in the world. I.E - you kill a Bandit Leader who has been terrorizing the countryside as part of a questline to gain reputation = no more or much weaker random bandit encounters in the region. Or if a city gets wiped out as part of the story, you can have random encounters with the refugees, etc. If we have map travel that allows direct control (instead of clicking on a location on a list and automatically travelling there), what you could have is a system where travelling the main roads sharply reduces the amount of random combat encounters and running off into the hinterlands increases your random combat encounter rate. It would also give more leeway for more varied higher level random encounters, as you'd basically have to go looking for them.

It's not so bad. You get used to it. The loss of sanity I mean. You never get used to the BSN.

In an ideal world, we'd have this and it would have a gameplay effect. Might affect the effectiveness of certain spells (fireballs in rain), accuracy of attacks (sunglare), line of sight (sandstorm) and the like. Realistically speaking, I doubt there's the resources and even though I agree it's a nice touch (even as an aesthetic effect with no gameplay implications), it's not on top of my priority list.