Elric Galad

I think Draining Whip would still be handy for Boss fights. You can't always count on crowd.

Also, if you plan to use Vanishing Strike a lot, you should try Ooblit pet. +3s is not much for long effects, but for Vanishing Strike, it is about equivalent to +12 INT (+60% duration) ^^ (I haven't test it, but it should work)

Just tested it, it seems to be true : Beguiler refund on deception also works when the status is applied by the spell itself. But if the spell doesn't apply status, there is no refund. Both Borrowed Instincts and Body Atunement don't refund Focus when the target is not afflicted. So MaxQuest was right. However, I had draining whip passive, but I didn't see any double refund.

This is usually true, but there is an exception for Single Class Assassin once you get Vanishing Strike. Vanishing Strike provides non cancellable invisibility for a (short) duration instead of invisibility for 1 attack. This means that DPS becomes more important with this ability than damages per attack. With Vanishing Strike, style doesn't matter as much : 2 handed or Dual Wield are mostly equivalent. 1 handed isn't that great because you'll already have a big Accuracy bonus from assassin's passive. 2 handed are also slightly less optimal because they trade a bit more PR for a bit less damages than Dual Wield and Assassin's passive also provides a lot of PR (and Crit chances). Also, Dual Wielding with a medium speed 1-hander and a fast 1-hander is optimal for the initial Full Attack from Vanishing Strike due to only the off-hand recovery beng applied (this is only for the initial Full Attack, so it's not that important, but still...). So I think that it is the optimal set-up for Vanishing Strikes.

Mule Kick used to be a separated ability, but not anymore. That's why I think it is a glitch only applied on a couple of abilities. I've read on this forum that the new PL apply. I wasn't the only one to wonder about it. See the example of Unbending description in thelee's gamefaq (which is a kind of reference) : https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599/fighter So I thought it was worth testing ^^

I tested Deep Wounds and Wounding Shot and they seem to work exactly the same... except that the duration of Wounding Shots benefits from PL so it does a bit more damages overall with comparable INT.

OK, so to answer my own question, I've done some checking on many abilities. I've mostly checked the tooltip, not the actual effect in most cases. However, couple of times that I checked the effect, it was consistent with the tooltip. I've found that there are only a handful of abilities for which the level of the Upgrade applies. For all other, the initial ability level applies (so they scale more). The only exception I've found are : - Greater Lay on Hand (but this one is actually a new ability as you keep the old Lay on Hand) - Panther Leap - Mule Kick (presumably because it used to be a different ability from Mule Kick). Note : Hobbling Shot is not an exception and is considred PL1 for PL bonus. I cannot pretend I've checked 100% of abilities with upgrades, but I've tested the 7 classes with upgrades (The 6 Martials and Chanter) and all worked the same. and I've tested most of the "main" abilities (Frenzy, Barbaric Shouts, All Rogue Strikes, Flurry of Blades, Unbending, Vigorous defense, Eld Nary, Seven Nights, Thunder Rolled, Weapon Summons, Paralysis Invocation, Ben Fidel's debuff, Stunning Blows, Torment Reach, Clarity, Wounding Shot, Binding Roots, All exhortations, Sacred Immo, FoD - this one needed actual testing as the tooltip does not show PL, etc...). Overall, it means that upgrades are always strictly better, provided you don't need the ability point. The few exceptions are likely to be minor glitches.

Biggest improvement : the additional depth of the (multi) class system and overall combat design. Biggest step back : the main story might be one of the worst ever made for a CRPG. Thaos arc wasn't the greatest ever but it was okay, with some interesting ideas.

I think Scordeo's with Blade Cascade out DPS Mowdyr even without any further trick involved (Wall of Draining, Salvation of Times, Ooblit, High INT, High Attack speed). 1 attack out of 20 basically proc 7 attacks (5s / 0.7 saber attack delay), so it is roughly equivalent to 35% lash (yup, it's an approximation). I think Scoredo is ahead due to Accuracy bonus + this. The problem is 5% is fairly unreliable, so in practice, you'll rarely see it. Mowdyr on the other hand is so versatile that I consider it the "best in slot standard meter". In order to demonstrate that any weapon is the Best in Slot item for a particular build, it is usually enough to demonstrate that it is better than Mowdyr. Basically, one cannot go wrong with Mowdyr.

A party of 5 Ranger/druid with Bear pets and Bear Shapeshift would also be tempting.

That's true, except that a Bellower can choose to pick "His Heart Did Fill..." instead since it costs the same for them. As a rule of thumb, the first question to ask oneself when designing a Chanter build is "what is the highest cost invoction I can pick" taking into account the various "penalties". It's true for Multi or Single Class, whatever your subclass is. It worth mentionning that a Single Class Skald who picks either Dragon or "His Heart Did Fill..." at PL IX would be able to cast 2 Eld Nary at the beginning of each encounter, or 4 time when using Sasha's Singing Scimitar upgraded with the complete phrase refill (you have to empower the 2nd cast).

Side note : picking the Dragon at PL IX might be useful even if you don't plan to use it because your phrase pool is aligned with your highest costing Invocation. Dragon costs 7+1 phrases as a beckoner which is at least 1 phrase above every other Invocations (Weapons are only 6+1 phrases).

Doesn't Hobbling Shot also subsitute Wounding Shot since it is the same ability with an additional effect ? I pick Accurate Wounding Shot instead so I don't know if it does...

Also 20 stacks of Scordeo's Trophy should lead to 0 recovery. Of course it is more complicated to combine with Salvation...

By the way, how would you rate robes of the Weyc ? AoE Brillant sounds like god tier provided one has a priest in his party and other bonus aren't too bad either.

It could be easily checked with Borrowed Instinct, since it's a Deception ability that doesn't inflict a status. If it is true... well... I supposed it could be seen as a "liberal" interpretation of the rules more than an actual bug. Still won't proc on resistant/immune foes or with the couple of Deception Spells that don't inflict conditions. It won't prevent me from playing Beguiler for "ethic" reasons 🙂 even if it's not corrected (even if it should 🙂 )

What was your PL ? 7 Focus corresponds to PL 2. Sneak Attack also applies the first 2 seconds of combat and from steltg. It might be the same for Beguiler refund (although the ability text is not 100% clear).

Bonus: All Deception Cipher spells have +20% range. +5 Focus (+1 more for every Cipher Power Level) on scoring Hits with Deception spells against Flanked, Body Affiliation, Mind Affiliation targets. => Working also on Graze is also a bit surprising, it's significantly better this way.

Wow I thought Beguiler was a better Psion than the Psion. I didn't suspect how much. I think even Mind Plague should be easily refunded.

What ?? Draining Whip applies to Beguiler focus refund from spells ?? I didn't know that !

Another option could be Sure Handed Ila. It's a very powerful chant, much more efficient for weapon DPS than Aefyllath, but also more conditional and can't usually be applied to all party members. If your chanter goes firearms/crossbow and you have another shooter close to him, it's enough to justify Sure Handed and the chant range won't be detrimental at all. I think Bellower/Rogue or something like this could be a good combo.

Per also has better synergy with weapon on-hit and on-crit effect and Interrupting blows.

Bellower lacks a bit of adaptability for my own taste due to almost wasting additional phrases. You have to time your invocation with the right number of phrases. Skald doesn't have penalty to chant which makes him better at fullfilling a part of traditionnal Chanter duties. However, I'm realizing I have no idea how Thrice she was wronged actually work and how many bounces are caused by its upgrade and PL.

Which is better for damages ? Per or Mig ? I think they're pretty much equal. Per is obviously better for Debuff and Mig for Healing. For a Barbarian, I would recommand Per anyway because it's really good with Spirit Tornado. It's even more true with a Berzeker because Mig means more self-damages.

I've made an interesting find : Upgraded abilities usually use their new PL for scaling. A PL1 ability with a PL3 upgrade will usually count as PL3 and thus will only benefit from PL above 3. However, there are some exceptions to that rule. It does make a difference, but not so much because usually there are a couple of PL difference between the initial ability and the upgraded one. Both Barbarian Shout-line and Frenzy-line do apply the initial PL1 though. And that makes a HUGE difference since their ultimate upgrades are PL7 and PL9. It is basically a +30% and +40% bonus to the PL scaling of these abilities. Now I understand better why Spirit Tornado and Driving Roar are my Favorites Barbs abilities 😃