Elric Galad

Thank you for your answers and thank you for the clarification about draining weapons. But can somebody give me the raw numbers about monk's unarmed damage and accuracy at level 13-14 ? I'd like to make my own opinion ^^

I heard that monks gets +16 unarmed accuracy and +12 (?) Unarmed damage (without stength) at level 13-14. Is it true ? Basically that would make Monk's fists the most damaging weapons by a relevant margin (especially with good stength). They would have less specials than enchanted weapons, but would be the "best in slot weapons" for pure damage purposes, as they were (arguably) in BG2 with their D20 damages. In addition, with "Draining Mod" removed, weapon specials are also less critical for melee, so unarmed monk might now be simply the "best" choice for monks. It would be a very useful information for the monk I'm planning to create. Especially because Unarmed is what monk "should be", and I really would like to play them this way. Bonus question : Is it the same with Novice Suffering ? I heard it is scaling too.

I heard that monks gets +16 unarmed accuracy and +12 (?) Unarmed damage (without stength) at level 13-14. Is it true ? Basically that would make Monk's fists the most damaging weapons by a relevant margin (especially with good stength). They would have less specials than enchanted weapons, but would be the "best in slot weapons" for pure damage purposes, as they were (arguably) in BG2 with their D20 damages. In addition, with "Draining Mod" removed, weapon specials are also less critical for melee, so unarmed monk might now be simply the "best" choice for monks. It would be a very useful information for the monk I'm planning to create. Especially because Unarmed is what monk "should be", and I really would like to play them this way. Bonus question : Is it the same with Novice Suffering ? I heard it is scaling too.

Mmm, not so simple. For sure, balance is less critical in single player game. In addition, this is a party game, not single character. You expect characters to be complementary, not being strictly equal. A priest is most probably overall stronger than a barbarian, but a barbarian buffed by a priest is usually a good combination. I like thid kind of games because I'm fond of the idea of complementary strengths, just because it is so epic ! (not to say 6 rangers with 6 bears is not epic ^^ ) So basically, balanced stuff is more epic !

Yes, and to be honest, even if I feel fighter UP now, the +10 accuracy gain in defender modes and fighter relying less on this modal opens a lot of new possibilities. The evolution goes in the right direction. It is just that current step on the stairs of perfect design is a bit harsh for fighters.

It works only with bow and swift aim is not very good with bow anyway...

Once more, the debate is not about fighter being viable or not. It us about fighter being Underpowered or not, especially when compared to monk. All you describe above, a monk can do too. So yes, fighter are currently inferior to monks. They have a couple of interesting abilities, but nothing gamechanching enough to justify their presence in a party, outside of roleplay or playstyle reason.

So enchantment limit is still 12. So... If transcendant suffering keeps scaling, unarmed monks might become eventually competitive (against everything but soulbound weapons ?).

Get a monk and you'll understand what is an excellent DPS offtank. Sorry but that's not that fighters are bad or not playable, they are just not as good in their tradional roles as either Paladin (tank) or Monk (off-tank DPS).

Wait, does it mean that monks too get +4 accuracy and damage at level 13 ? Sounds good.

Paladin auras doesn't stack with spell buffs. So that's 100% normal. By the way, there are rules, and there are exceptions. Cautious attack does not stack wuth spells. Circle of protection seems to stack with deflection buff. Cipher's Body Atunement and Wild Leech stack with everything, but not borrowed instinct and psychovampiric shield. Basically if you get the same attribute as the one you've stolen, it stacks. If you get a different bonus (psychovampiric removes intellect and buff deflection), it does not stack. Go figure...

Priest : sounds really bad. Druid : sounds really bad. Wizard : we'll see. Cipher : hard CC, 1 per encounter. Not bad for class without too much CC. Also bonus to accuracy is nice, and synergize well with classes with already high accuracy like fighter, rogue, and ranger. Chanter : sounds lame at high level. Fighter : constant recovery was a bit meh IMHO. This does not sound too appealing but why not. Monk : useless except for spiritshift druid. Rogue : the powergamer's favorite. All martial damage dealer (well, except rogue) will take it. Barbarian : 1 per rest is annoying but not bad potential on casters with no alacrity (druid and priest). Here comes the raging buffer ! (Yes attack speed buff casting). Martial characters have better choices. Paladin : awesome for parties without priest (party paladin can take another aura in this case). Useless for parties with priest. Ranger : not too exciting but sounds like a great choice for rogues. +80% lash damage DoT is great, considering the huge damage per shot of the rogue (far higher than ranger's), and hobbled is good for sneak attacks. Good that rogue gets something to compensate that everyone gets sneak attack ^^

Additional question : enchanting limit was 12. Was it upgraded to 14 ?

Per is not only about accuracy. It is also interrupt. With per encounter lvl 3 spells, wizard can chain cast fast fireball while buffed by alacrity. Interrupting blow does apply to spell. So I think interrupt wizard might worth considering now, especially because it uses the same stats as Crowd Control. On another topic, Wounds giving DR seems an excellent synergy with Turning Wheel.

For Ranger pet, check "Ranger Class" topic in General discussions. (I tested it yesterday ^^. I got original info in the 7-pages Beta Topic, I think.)

Fighters goes from Arya Stark to Conan. Wizards goes from squirrels to walking gods.

Wizard are the best crowd controllers, except maybe in low level trash encounters. And crowd control is extremely powerful in this game. Saying it is "nice to have" is weird. Come one... Confusion, Call to slumber, Slicken, Gaze of the adragan.. They can chain cast all of these and stop all ennemies from acting meanwhile cipher is reloading his blunderbuss... And they even have other uses. Nothing is more powerful than a wizard in this game. And only priest may be harder to replace. They are just no more walking gods like in BG.

This is the official version that does not say anything about Defender, Spiritshift and Pet buff...

Wolfs (and their Artic Cousin Ituumak) do exactly 1 less base damage as 2-hander, with an attack speed (from my testing) close to 2-Hander with Medium armor and same Dex (13). They deal Slashing / Piercing damages, which is always nice. They have 5 DR Bypass, +15 Accuracy and (To be checked) +60% natural modifier at level 12. They additionaly can get 3 further DR Bypass and +95% (conditional) bonus damage with 1 ability and 2 talents (Predator's Sense, Vicious Companion, Mercyless Companion) Note that Wounding Shot applies conditions for both Predator's Sense and Merciless Companion, They have crappy Might 10 but who cares with such modifiers ? They have 15 Per which is good with new Per rules. At level 12, they now have 16,5 DR WITHOUT Talent and 22,5 with resilient companions. After spending the 3 talents and 1 ability listed above, Wolf can still choose 5 abilities and 3 talents for their "Ranger Pet".

Ranger pet and Druid Spiritshift did change ) So we can be confident (aim) about Fighter, Obsidian do listen to us (eventually ) ).

I've taken the info rom another Topic, and tested them with 2.0. * All animal companion weapons have 5 DR bypass. Just tested and works. * All animal companion armor gains 2 DR every 3 levels instead of 1.5 every 3 levels. Just tested and works. * They used to gain 3 Accuracy and +15% damage every 3 levels. They now gain 5 Accuracy and +20% damage every 3 levels. Tooltip seems bugged, it does not display the information now (french version at least). I can confirm for accuracy (based on roll logs), not for damages, but Ituumak apparently took some steroids so I'm pretty confident. * Faithful Companion was doubled to a +30 bonus vs. Charm/Confuse/Dominate with 5 seconds taken off the duration. Tooltip 2.0 confirms. Not tested. * Resilient Companion now adds 3 DR and an additional point of DR every 3 levels. Just tested and works. * Vicious Companion stacks an additional 3 DR bypass. Just tested and works. Here comes the Beastmaster DPS Ranger ! (and Bearmaster Tanky Ranger !)

Did anybody find full 2.0 patch notes somewhere ? The official version does not say anything about important changes like Defender, Spiritshift or Pet Buff. By the way, I would be really curious about new lvl 13-14 abilities and Multiclass talents too )

Ranger pet weapons do scale but not that well in 1.06. Ranger's pet received a lot of complaints in 1.06. They are ok at low level, but scale bad, especially for PotD. Apparently ranger's pets (and pet talents) are going to receive an important buff in 2.0. In my opinion, this should be enough to make the class attractive.

I was probably a bit excessive when I said powergaming is the point of balance. Balance is not so critical in a solo game and is conceptually different when applied to a party rather than 1 single character. I don't expect balance in PoE to make all character equal. I expect each class to have a combination of key roles in party, that no other class can combine stricly better. Basicslly, I hate having a class mechanically inferior to others for all the roles it can fullfill. I really feel that fighter could be strictly worse than monk at tank+single target DPS role... By the way, I love confident aim because it is good against ennemies with high defenses. I don't think other class have something like this (except maybe rangers stacking accuracy).

No, sorry, I don't believe in DPS fighter as they currently are. Sure they can work and extremely specific build like lady of pain could exist, but "normal fighter" is just not enough. They have +25% damage from mastery, about +10% from armoured grace (wich affects only recovery) and +10-15% from confident aim. All this is cool but never come close from barbarian or rogue level of damage. Worse, this does not come close from monk who also has defenses equal to the (nerfed) fighter. An armoured cipher casting tactical meld before fights will also out DPS fighter while providing support and/or further self buff. It is not that fighters are bad, it is that other classes are better AND more interesting. The few advantages the fighter has are not enough to justify their presence in a party after defender nerf. Being low maintenance is now enough when powergaming (powergaming being the point of class balance) If they were buffed, it would be possible.IMO the problem is that they don t really have a "style". They should be "tactical warriors" or "reliable against strong ennemies", not just plain DPS. At least "invincible tanks holding the line" was a style. Currently fighters are more or less strong pets. And as pets are getting buffed, I'd rather take a bear.