Elric Galad

Speed mod on unique weapons now works ^^

I don' agree. It's not just a problem of passive abilities or not. Armored grace, weapon mastery & specialisation and confident aim is no more DPS than a monk with swift strike & lightning lash. 3 abilities & 1 talent vs 1 ability & 1 talent (and 1 wound and instant activation, not stricly passive but not very active). Fighter's current problem is not comparison to rogue because they have different roles. Fighter's current problem is comparison to Monk IMHO. I don't think fighter's abilities are currently on par with monks'. By no means I think they are not viable in PotD by the way.

My thoughts exactly. Fighters do not have too bad abilities (even if their lvl 13 one is meh), but they don't have gamechanging default abilities of other martial class : carnage, sneak attack, faith and conviction or (now buffed) pets. Monk too has a meh default ability (suffering) but monks have 3 "OP" abilities to compensate : - swift strikes for constant DPS buff on par with sneak attack (with talent) - torment reach as Bread&Butter wound spender for even more DPS fun - force of anguish for "time of needs" infinite hard CC. It's not that other monk abilities are bad, it is just these 3 are the reason why you want to include a monk in your party. It was the same for (wary) defender : it was fighter gamechanging ability. If you nerf it, fighter needs something else. However, wary defender was indeed a problem because you HAD to take it to have a fighter on par with other classes as there were not other really powerful abilities. Nerfing it opens more playstyles. For example, I can now imagine a DPS fighter activating unbending (basically 50% less damages) during boss fight because he is not invincible anymore. But Dev should add something to compensate.

Does barbarian rage apply to spell ? I guess yes, as Alacrity and other attack speed buff.

How much damage, healing and damage to yourself is immolation by the way ?

Shoot twice seems sick. Basically double ranger DPS with bows. Well, not exactly due to accuracy, but almost. Double stunning shots... 1 stun is good but 2 stuns is better... Works well with on-hit effect weapons too. Hahahaha !

Just be aware vigorous defense does not stack with Circle of protection. Considering Circle becomes per encounter at lvl 13, it might be suboptimal in team build.

Call of the primordials could have summoned a Delemgane instead ) Ah good old Call Woodland Being from BG2... ! Thank you very much for the info ! You've gained a "Benevolent point"

I did do some tests with the pets attackspeed wise its Antelope>Wolf>Deer>Boar=>Lion(forgot but lion for sure isnt faster)>Bear ( lion is super slow for a dps pet) wolves also got less endurance so even if they only take 3 more dmg a hit they cant take as many and that 3 per hit adds up fast but i mostly want to know if i can safely pick a dps pet now without it dying too much or if its still bear just so u dont need too worry about it too much ( this is for Potd for hard and lower it doesnt matter i think) From your description, I tend to think that there are 2 different base attack speed for pet : - Very Slow for Lion and Bear - Not so slow for the other. According to pet stats that I found here : https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/74152-ranger-wolf-pet/ (Wolf was bugged at this time, now they have 13 Dex) The different Dex from pets can explain the slight difference between pets of the same category. For Dexterity : Antelope > Wolf > Stag > Boar And : Lion > Bear But Lion has the same Dex as Stag, so there should be a different base speed. This is just for Maths ; unfortunately, I don't have PotD experience with pets.

Quoting from a previous topic "Wolf attacks every 3,4s vs bears 5,1 and lions 4,9" Given that wolf aslo does 13-19 base damage instead of 11-17 for other pets (I think), I think it could be a big difference for damage, but it would require confirmation ^^ I would be curious about other pets attack speed by the way. Bears only have 3 more DR (or am I missing something), so personnally, I would prefer wolf.

Very clear, thank you ! So they don't scale. And what do the boots do ?

For sure : fists have the same attack speed as fast weapons and do 10-15 base damages. Fast weapons have usually 9-13 damage range. Normal weapons have 11-16 except sabers which are 13-16. In other words, fists are the equivalent of saber for fast weapons : their intrinsic special is their better damage range.

Pain block looks awesome on a pet. 32.5 DR at level 12 (probably more at level 14) with regenerating endurance and infinite health... By the way, if my maths around wolf pets above are correct, I think rangers are now THE highest single target DPS class. However, they are probably harder to use than Rogue.

Transcendsnt suffering was indeed +4 per 3 levels (+12 at level 12) For damage, it was +2 at level 1, then +2 per 3 levels (+8 at level 12) AND bonus damages were affected by strength (and none other damage bonus). So with 20 stength (which is not so exceptional as you can use items and/or spells), it was +10.4, which is equivalent to 83.3% bonus damage. Basically, fists were subpar compared to superb weapon with lash & stuff, but not so much. Enchanted weapons did not really scale with white march : they are still limited to 12 enchant points. So, with possible exception of soulbound weapons, fists might now be better. That's why I would like the numbers to update my maths ^^

Thank you for your answers and thank you for the clarification about draining weapons. But can somebody give me the raw numbers about monk's unarmed damage and accuracy at level 13-14 ? I'd like to make my own opinion ^^

I heard that monks gets +16 unarmed accuracy and +12 (?) Unarmed damage (without stength) at level 13-14. Is it true ? Basically that would make Monk's fists the most damaging weapons by a relevant margin (especially with good stength). They would have less specials than enchanted weapons, but would be the "best in slot weapons" for pure damage purposes, as they were (arguably) in BG2 with their D20 damages. In addition, with "Draining Mod" removed, weapon specials are also less critical for melee, so unarmed monk might now be simply the "best" choice for monks. It would be a very useful information for the monk I'm planning to create. Especially because Unarmed is what monk "should be", and I really would like to play them this way. Bonus question : Is it the same with Novice Suffering ? I heard it is scaling too.

I heard that monks gets +16 unarmed accuracy and +12 (?) Unarmed damage (without stength) at level 13-14. Is it true ? Basically that would make Monk's fists the most damaging weapons by a relevant margin (especially with good stength). They would have less specials than enchanted weapons, but would be the "best in slot weapons" for pure damage purposes, as they were (arguably) in BG2 with their D20 damages. In addition, with "Draining Mod" removed, weapon specials are also less critical for melee, so unarmed monk might now be simply the "best" choice for monks. It would be a very useful information for the monk I'm planning to create. Especially because Unarmed is what monk "should be", and I really would like to play them this way. Bonus question : Is it the same with Novice Suffering ? I heard it is scaling too.

Mmm, not so simple. For sure, balance is less critical in single player game. In addition, this is a party game, not single character. You expect characters to be complementary, not being strictly equal. A priest is most probably overall stronger than a barbarian, but a barbarian buffed by a priest is usually a good combination. I like thid kind of games because I'm fond of the idea of complementary strengths, just because it is so epic ! (not to say 6 rangers with 6 bears is not epic ^^ ) So basically, balanced stuff is more epic !

Yes, and to be honest, even if I feel fighter UP now, the +10 accuracy gain in defender modes and fighter relying less on this modal opens a lot of new possibilities. The evolution goes in the right direction. It is just that current step on the stairs of perfect design is a bit harsh for fighters.

It works only with bow and swift aim is not very good with bow anyway...

Once more, the debate is not about fighter being viable or not. It us about fighter being Underpowered or not, especially when compared to monk. All you describe above, a monk can do too. So yes, fighter are currently inferior to monks. They have a couple of interesting abilities, but nothing gamechanching enough to justify their presence in a party, outside of roleplay or playstyle reason.

So enchantment limit is still 12. So... If transcendant suffering keeps scaling, unarmed monks might become eventually competitive (against everything but soulbound weapons ?).

Get a monk and you'll understand what is an excellent DPS offtank. Sorry but that's not that fighters are bad or not playable, they are just not as good in their tradional roles as either Paladin (tank) or Monk (off-tank DPS).

Wait, does it mean that monks too get +4 accuracy and damage at level 13 ? Sounds good.

Paladin auras doesn't stack with spell buffs. So that's 100% normal. By the way, there are rules, and there are exceptions. Cautious attack does not stack wuth spells. Circle of protection seems to stack with deflection buff. Cipher's Body Atunement and Wild Leech stack with everything, but not borrowed instinct and psychovampiric shield. Basically if you get the same attribute as the one you've stolen, it stacks. If you get a different bonus (psychovampiric removes intellect and buff deflection), it does not stack. Go figure...