Jediphile

No, he didn't. He just mentioned it before the list, which is from Wookieepedia and seems not to have been updated yet. Which is an excellent reason.

I read somewhere that Bao-Dur was supposed to die on M4-78... It might have been on Wikipedia, but I'm not sure. And in any event, it can be no more than an evil rumor. Still wondering, though...

Basically you have to build influence with them and keep talking to them, and eventually you'll get a chance to take them as apprentices. The conditions differ a lot, though. Some you just need to build enough influence with and the option will show up no problem. In other cases it is tied to specific quests on specific worlds. Or it could be tied to your own experience level. I'm not going to be more specific than that, since it would spoil the game completely, but if you insist on spoiling your game completely, here is the link to a complete and totally spoiling Influence Guide (it's written for Xbox, but it's all good on pc too - I have a pc, and this guide has never led me astray). For more complete spoilers, look here.

She said it, but the question is what she meant by it. Kreia admires the Exile's ability to deny the will of the force. That makes him unique by any standard, but it does not mean that he's a powerful force-user. Indeed, Vandar described him as an average force-user to Vrook in the flawed holographic projection on Dantooine... Bah - that's just munchkin'ish power-nonsense. The Exile could go up to level 50 in K2. That's not normally allowed in d20 rules, so there is no basis for claiming that another character with similar experience couldn't do exactly the same. Indeed, the Exile's companions would seem to suggest otherwise. According to canon, the Exile didn't have Force Crush - he was LS. The Exile killed Sion, so clearly he wasn't immortal. As for Kreia, she *wanted* the Exile to kill her, which I would say does sort of reduce the achievement a bit... Revan didn't need to go off on a power-tantrum to kill all his enemies - it was just redundant. And Revan has had six years to grow stronger in since we last saw him by the end of K2, while the Exile has had only one measely year in which to climb to power from level 1. Who is likely to be the most powerful... " You see to place a lot of importance on what Kreia says, so maybe we should consider this as well: Kreia: "Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul."

That's fine, but if I'm playing the Exile, then I must know it as a player, and I didn't. That makes it next to impossible to identify with *my* character. Agreed, but so much of the Exile's backstory becomes vital during the game, and since I'm playing him, I shouldn't have to find out about it when Kreia throws Atton a few bits of information on the subject or similar. If the Exile is my character, that's great, but then I *have* to know him - that's my right as a player! If I can't do that, then let me play someone else. Otherwise it's just false to say that he's not amnesic. He may not, but it hardly matters... I think they've both seen terrible things, but I actually consider LS Revan to be the most troubled character, since he has to live with the knowledge of having killed or corrupted so many jedi and caused so much death... I assume that's why he left to fight the true Sith alone - to atone for all the horrible things he's done.

Because neither Kreia nor the jedi masters thought so, and if anyone should know, it should be they. No, I don't agree with that, because that sounds like what happened to the Exile was an instinctual reaction that anyone else would have made under the same circumstances, and we know that is not the case, since the Exile alone among all the jedi at Malachor V did not either die or fall to the dark side. I'm not saying the Exile made a conscious decision, but I don't think it was an entirely instinctual reaction either. The way I see it, the jedi (and sith) are used to "give their will over to the force", since that is how they can react so quickly - it is not conscious when they deflect lightsaber or blaster shots. As Obi-Wan explains to Luke: Obi-Wan: "A Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him." Luke: "You mean it controls your actions?" Obi-Wan: "Partially. But it also obeys your commands." They way I see it, the jedi (or sith) sort of decides beforehand what he will do, or rather have the force do, when certain conditions arise. In a way, it's sort of like he makes a simple computer-program, which the force then follows, when the preset conditions for its activation are met. In that sense, the jedi do make a choice, it is just not one that is consciously made during the actual situation. In this context Kreia's comments become interesting. Kreia: "But no Jedi ever made the choice you did. To sever ties so completely, so utterly, that it leaves a wound in the Force." Now, from that it seems clear to me that the Exile did not merely have an instinctual reaction. His choice was unique, but the big question is whether that choice is open to all jedi, or whether he was also unique in his ability to actually cut himself off from the force. That is unanswered, and that may be a contributing factor to what the masters fear. I don't think so. If that were the case, then the masters really didn't have to care about it. Besides, the Exile does use force powers. And we should also remember that other jedi have been cut off from the force without the ability to just sort of "turn it on" again as the Exile did. Ulic Qel-Droma spent a decade trying to rediscover his lost connection to the force and never succeeded. I don't agree entirely with the masters' decision either, but I think you're wrong about their motives. You seem to be overlooking the connection between the Exile and the "new Sith" (=Nihilus), which is the major concern of the masters. "There was a gathering of Jedi on the planet - when we realized that something was attacking us, we resolved to meet secretly to attempt to find this threat.Then... Katarr was no more.When we felt Katarr die, there is something we felt, something we'd felt once before. An echo in the Force.We'd felt it before when you stood before us. Whatever this threat, whatever this hunger is, it is something tied to you, something you have experienced directly. This echo travels in the places where death has walked, where planets have died. Massacres fuel its power, the death of life fuels it." "The Sith are a threat, it is true. But the threat they present... it is tied to you in some way. The echo we have felt on the worlds we have walked - we have encountered it only once before, when you stood before us at your trial.We believe that somehow, you are creating this - or that the Sith have learned this technique from you." This last bit is fairly important, because it points very directly to a connection between the Exile and the threat of the Sith that the masters fear so much. That threat is Nihilus, but then the masters don't know that. What I find interesting is that they say quite bluntly that somehow the Exile is responsible for creating this danger, meaning Nihilus. Kreia never disputes that, and naturally no one else mentions it, since they have no knowledge of it. But note what Kreia said earlier about Nihilus and his power. Kreia: "It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes.It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand." Now, is it just me or this *EXACTLY* what the Exile himself experienced at Malachor V? We know that Nihilus was born from the events of Malachor V from the description of his mask... "You have taken this trophy from the remains of Darth Nihilus - it is the last surviving piece of the beast who died and was reborn in the shattered world of Malachor V. By taking it from him, you have gained a stronger tie to the Force." That is a lot of conveniently coinciding factors to me, and suggests that the masters were absolutely right to suspect a connection between the Exile and "this new Sith threat" (which was Nihilus).

pity qui gon saved him, weak jedi and their helping of the weak imagine that as a kotor scenario: [Help Jar Jar] [Run into the forrest, letting Jar Jar get run over] <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Obi wasn't happy to Qui-Gon after that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Trust me - yes he was!

It's not that he can't be in league with Jabba, but I think Boba is so tough a bounty hunter than he has better things to do just hang around with Jabba's posse just waiting for a job - he should be out there wiping the floor with other bounties instead. I mean, Fett is the hardest, toughest, and meanest bounty hunter around (or should be), so his services should be in high demand. He has much better things to do than hanging around Jabba's posse or hunting for a jedi who has been lost for two decades and is presumed dead. There are plenty of deadbeats he should be chasing down instead. I don't think Boba's presence in the scene is a major problem, but it doesn't exactly make much sense either...

I actually found the original song to be even worse, so I favor the lesser of two evils... No, that was already in the special edition from 1996

I already wrote his return... And he and Revan did not fight. Well, at least not until very late in the game... "

Oh dear - now you've done it!! [ducks for cover as Revan's angry fanboys swarm...]

Yes. That doesn't add up. If that were true, then the masters would have to cut off his companions from the force as well, and they never even describe that as a problem even though they are apparently fully aware how the Exile forms such bonds with others. Yes. No, I don't think so. Nihilus doesn't form bonds with others as the Exile does, and he doesn't seem to be cut off from the force as the Exile is. He has a similar ability, but he is a true force leech unlike the Exile who is more of a siphon and a bit of a leech. Also, Nihilus has little or no control over his abilities - he reacts instinctively and drains all around him to quench his endless hunger for the force, an attempt that is futile because he can never get enough. Kreia: "And he fed upon its destruction - it will sustain him, for a time.Because it is not something that can ever truly be controlled... and it leaves nothing to conquer in its wake.And it rules him, not the other way around. It has its own will, its own instincts." "Power? Do you think so? You would be wrong. There is no strength in the hunger he possesses... and the will behind his power is a primal thing. And it devours him as he devours others - his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead, it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls."

Ack! ur so right, I should have put her instead of Mission or Kreia...hmm mebe ill make another poll then or something...where was she from btw? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmmm, not actually sure where Nomi is from, but read all about her here.

I wish I'd felt that way. You're right about Revan. He began being your character and ended up being Revan. The Exile, however, didn't begin as my character and never became it for the reason I stated previously K2 has great plot, but the characterization of the Exile as far as making me identify with him is just awful.

Try telling him that to his face...

Hmm, it's no surprise to me that Bastila is winning, but it's interesting that HK-47 and Jolee are tied for second place. I guess I'm not the only one who likes Jolee :cool:

If they just kill him off in the background, then it'll be really disappointing after hearing so much about him in K2...

Actually, this (and several other scenes you mention) were already in the special editions Lucas did 1996 for the original movie's 20th anniversary. Those even made it to the cinema - I saw them all there, before I later bought the tapes with them. Agreed. I wanted that scene back in there, but there is no reason for Boba to be there, since he's a hard bounty hunter who isn't sent hunt Han down until later. Boba's association with Jabba doesn't come about until after Han has "failed" to repay Jabba. Yes. These are all (except Naboo in the celebration of RotJ) from the special editions, but I agree that these scenes were all good.

Agreed. Because while I like the strong plot of K2, the Exile has to be about the worst told PC ever. You're constantly wondering about his backstory, but you're never told and has to learn it as his companions learn it, which is fairly poor storytelling for the character I'm supposed to identify with. It's next to impossible to identify with the Exile when you don't know what he experienced on Malachor, don't know why he chose Exile, don't know his association with Bao-Dur when he suddenly turns up, etc. etc. etc... So I have to choose Revan.

You can also recover vitality by meditating with T3. He also has several secrets to reveal if you build influence with him (including the holographic message by either Bastila or Carth), which - after several increases to T3's stats - ends with a boost to the Exile's Wisdom score. Bloody useful, if you ask me. Besides, I prefer the dependable, trustworthy little T3 to blood-hungry, uncaring HK-47 any day of the week. HK-47 may be fun (you gotta love a droid that can *gulp* ), but I can't trust and could never turn my back on him!

They are not the same. Kreia gives bonus xp (and so is usually in my active group), while the Disciple merely allows you to restore your force points. Damn useful, yes, but not the same.

I see it pretty much the same way. What I would like is essentially the Dark Lord of the true Sith is planning an invasion of the crippled republic. Now, if Revan ended up as LS in K1, then you need to find him, redeem him, and then overthrow the Dark Lord with Revan's help. However, if Revan was DS in K1, then Revan *IS* the Dark Lord of the true Sith, and you have to overthrow him yourself, either to save the republic (LS choice) or to take his place (DS choice).

Sorry, but no. The original Sith species has long since been interbred so much with the dark jedi cast out by the jedi during the Second Great Schism that by the time of the Sith Empire, there were hardly anyone of "pure blood" left. Even if there were, KotOR is a millennium later, and in any event, the Sith species were never a great empire - they were a simple people who became slaves to the dark jedi cast out by the republic, and it was through their powers that they became part of a great empire. There is no "original, mysterious Sith race" with lots of secrets to expose and explore. Those secrets are those that the outcast dark jedi chose to share with the sith species, so if any old secrets exist, then they "belong" to or originate from the original dark jedi, not the sith species. The sith species of that age were nothing but slaves.

Yes, they did. There is some mention of the Sith in K1, yes, but it wasn't until in K2 that this was retconned to mean the true Sith. A good number of K1 fans are still sore about that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There are mentions about Ludo Kresh's survivor's in that whatever handbook Personally I believe that Obsidian only gave them the name "True sith". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, but Naga Sadow, Marka Ragnos, and Ludo Kressh all hail from the Sith Empire that fell a thousand years before KotOR even begins in the Great Hyperspace War, as chronicled in the "Golden Age of the Sith" and "Fall of the Sith Empire" comic books. We have not heard anything about what these Sith have been doing since then, only seen remnants from their fallen empire.

Yes, they did. There is some mention of the Sith in K1, yes, but it wasn't until in K2 that this was retconned to mean the true Sith. A good number of K1 fans are still sore about that.