Darth Jebus

I would also like to point out that Obsidian has about 50 people total working at their company, whereas BioWars is one of the largest video game developers in the world. And they had three years to develop KOTOR 1 with TEAMS of people working on various, SPECIFIC things in regards to the game. Also, I think everything you (Buttfacepoop) said is valid and has been addressed numerous times in this forum already. But we really are trying to cut down on all the needless "THIS GAME SUCKS!" crap and offer well thought-out criticism that the devs might actually respond to. No dev is going to respond to a thread like this, and it doesn't do anything to change whats been done. Also, you could've just as easily posted this in of our SEVERAL threads dedicated to this topic. It's all good to post your thoughts and feelings but check the forums for similar threads first. And then post away.

This might be old news by now. But when I came into the office this morning I clicked on this website, and the first thing I saw in bright yellow letters was "PATCH COMING FOR KOTOR 2!" There were no details or anything. Does anyone know what this is about? Is it a patch to deal with all the technical problems, or is this an actual content patch to address the missing scenes and to shore up the ending? My guess is that's it's a patch to deal with the technical issues, but I could be wrong.

Time might not have been the reason. I think some of that stuff would have pushed the game into M territory and also it's not very star wars like either. It's too dark and downbeat... If Obsidian was told by LA to pull those parts late on then that would explain why the game was as it was. To re record another ending would have required rehiring the VO talent. If Obsidian hadnt discussed the ending with LA before going ahead then they are somewhat to blame. Of course this is purely conjecture. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is EXACTLY what I had said earlier in this thread. I even said the bit about not just plain knowing what really went down. But I have a very strong suspicion that LA probably wasn't comfortable with this content in the game because it just wasn't Star Wars-like. Some of that stuff would've definitely pushed the game into M territory. Time may have been an absolute factor, but I really think because this was a Star Wars game, LA had the final say what does and does not go into the game. And I really do believe they just felt this material, though utterly great, was not Star Wars. That's probably why the BioWare scenes in K1 that involved Carth dying with Revan and such were cut out. And BioWare had three years to develop their game.

I totally thought Darth was just a made-up name from the word "dearth", which just meant a lacking. Like a dearth of light or something. So, uh...

Actually, my favorite Lucas film was THX 1138. But that was when he had Francis Ford Coppola looking over his shoulder.

As much as the other enourmously amazing thread about the cut endings has utterly depressed me (a little dramatic, I know), I have to say, the game is what it is. I don't expect ever to get an expansion pack or a patch of some sort coming from OE or LA. In some ways, this all reminds me of the fan outcry when Episode I first came out. Everyone was like, "Wtf was that? That was terrible!" And Lucas not only ignored all of his fans (he's even said on numerous interviews that he doesn't care what his fans think) but he gave the public the exact same thing with Episode II. The bottom line is, money talks. And despite the outcry of the many Star Wars and RPG fans out there about the disappointing failings of this game, there won't be any changes because LA has already reaped the benefits of the intial releases. And OE has benefitted from all of the critical accolades (which I totally don't understand, btw) being heaped on this game. Why? Because you all, just like me, are going to continue to shell out your money for crap like this and then we're just going to move on to something else. TPM was just about universally panned, but Lucas knew that he could literally afford to ignore the outcry because all of the fans that were pissed at TPM were the same fans that were gonna be the first ones in line for AOTC. And they were. If you want to really effect change you have to hit companies where the feel it the most - their pocketbooks. This means don't any of you buy K3 when and if it ever comes out. And I can't even type that with a straight face.

That was what Brian Lawson had to say in response to a poster's comments over on the Bio boards about K2's failings being the bugs, the dialog and the ending. Minority? Man, do the OE devs even SEE their own forums anymore???

Dude... You guys are killing me here. Please stop. I mean this is seriously bumming me out. That Atton Death was truly awesome. Yet they cut it. Seriously. No more. I can't take much more of this before I honestly just take the game back. The more you guys dig up these files, the more I see how incomplete this game was. It would be like if when ROTJ had come out we went right from the troops gathering on Endor to the Emperor falling down the pit, and then the end credits suddenly rolling. This sucks, man.

Yeah, I felt like that too, but fortunately I have just the tool for dealing with it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I totally thought that was a lightsaber.

You're absolutely right about not blaming everything on the publisher. And I'm not trying to defend OE on anything or defend some of their lame ideas, such as the RLG, the lack of romances, or the combat system that made you seem like Jesus with a lightsaber. All I'm trying to say is that we have to keep some things in perspective, and that you can see the potential in this game when you play it. You can see what it could've been. Look, I was incredibly disappointed in K2. But I just think you can attribute most of the shortcomings towards an unrealistic schedule brought by a large publisher, coupled with a new startup company handling the sequel to one of the most critically and fan acclaimed RPGs of all time which carries one of the most lucrative licenses in the world. Oh, and it's their very first title. Not good bedfellows.

I know this might be totally cheesy and a little long-winded, but bear with me for a second. I just wanted to say, in light of all the shortcomings of K2, I think we need to let the guys at OE know that we still support them and that we know they'll do a better job next time around. Not that they did a terrible job with K2. But I'm only saying this because as a startup company, I always had the feeling that they were rushed into meeting a deadline and getting the product out as fast as possible by LA. I've said again and again that the more I looked at K2, the more I pointed the finger to LucasArts. I guess this is all in light of the recent Resident Cynic article over at Gamespy that really hit the nail on the head. Gamespy basically said that LA has a notorious track record of giving developers unrealistic schedules and trying soak up every last cent of coin out of the Star Wars license that they can. Quality be damned. Gamespy also said that the reason K1 didn't suffer from the same pitfalls that felled K2 was because BioWare was too large, too established, and too concerned about their exellent reputation to allow themselves to be bullied by LA. Startup companies don't have the same luxury. But they did say the same thing most everyone here has been saying: that OE is made up of many of the same people that brought us some of the greatest titles in RPG history, and that there is no way they would put out a product as unfinished as K2 were it not for the big, bad publisher looking over their shoulder, pressuring them to get it out for Christmas. At least that's what I've been saying all along. I may not be a seasoned RPGer, and I don't know the first thing about the vidgame industry, but it just seemed strange to me that that the folks that developed the likes of PST, Fallout, and Icewind Dale, among others, could just drop the ball so bad with the ending to K2 and all of the glitches. I've always said it had to of been LA. That being said, I know the devs, like all developers I'm sure, are well aware of the flaws of K2 and just because they are not posting on these boards doesn't mean they don't know of them or they don't hear us. In fact, I'd go as far as saying they're probably more pissed than most of us are, because it's their reputations and careers on the line. These guys and gals are professionals and perfectionists. You don't think seeing their product riddled with technical flaws and storyline holes doesn't grate on their nerves? We just play the damn games. They have to live them, so to speak. So, all I'm trying to say in this aimless ramble of mine, is that with good constructive feedback (not just, THIS GAME SUCKS. I HOPE YOU GUYS DON'T DO ANYTHING ELSE) I'm sure the devs will take note of it and maybe even implement some ideas for a possible K3. I read in another thread that someone said that there was a Swedish developer that was in a similar situation to OE, but their fans supported them and the devs listened to constructive feedback, and so as a result, two years after their game was released, they're still issuing patches to correct problems. I think it's just important to note that OE is a fledgeling company and that many of the issues that cropped in this game were due to them being rushed and bullied by LA. Not because they don't care about their product. Look at the stuff they've done in the past. K, I'm done. This prolly belongs in the way off-topic fora, btw.

I agree with about 98% of what you said there. The first time I played the game through, I was all, "What?"

That totally cracked me up. It's just like saying, "Well you know, the Titanic was great if you can just look past the iceberg."

Is this the first time you've taken control of T3? Because if so you've got a long ways to go. If you've already encountered T3 in the fuel line and are at the computer console with the PC and Atton, and you are still unable to open up the Hangar Bay door, then that means you either didn't pick up the missing component to the console which has to be replaced before you can open up the Hangar door, or you have a glitch. This missing component is laying on the ground directly in front of T3 when you see him, broken in the fuel line. It's kind of hard to miss but you have to pay attention. When you pick it up, you'll get no notification or anything, so just make sure you grab it. Also, no offense, but the game totally spells this out for you the first time you take control of T3. When you go to that computer console initially to open up the door to the Fuel Depot, you'll see the option to open up the Hangar Bay doors for 25 computer spikes or something like that. But even if you have the spikes, you can't open the door because of the missing component which has been purposely removed. You kinda need to make sure you READ EVERYTHING CAREFULLY before proceeding. Don't rush through a level in an effort to get out of it as fast as possible. Otherwise you'll end up stuck and clueless. Kinda like where you are now.

I'm totally not trying to beat a dead horse, here. But this is just example #1000 of how this game kind of misses all of the minor attention to detail things. Of course it's quite possible I just missed it, but in 4 or 5 playthroughs I don't recall seeing anywhere in the game where you could sever the Force Bond with Kreia. This includes the final confrontation. It's kind of like That's what I meant by the game needed to be fleshed out better and fill all the holes and gaps, instead of leaving so much up to the players assumptions and conjecture.

Just fyi - not only do you have to pick LS responses which are pretty obvious, but you CAN'T let them "beat" you. Even if everything you've said up to that point is LS, if you "die" you will get DS points no matter what. It's because every time the visions best you in battle, it means they are getting to you and that you are slowly slipping into madness. So, you have to beat all of them in battle. It's the only way to avoid DS points. Also, with the Malak vision, you only have to "kill" Malak. Do that and everyone else will disappear.

This is just god**** depressing.

This is slightly off-topic, but I have never seen Vader in a one-on-one duel with a fully trained, highly skilled Jedi and win. I've seen Vader fight a has-been old man who didn't even consider himself a Jedi anymore, a young boy who was just discovering the force, and then the same young boy only a little older who had a full grasp of the force. And in that duel, Luke totally wiped the floor with Vader. The only reason Luke didn't kill Vader in like 5 seconds was because Luke kept holding back and not wanting to fight his father. When Vader finally pissed Luke off it was all over but the shouting and the lightning. And in the prequels, every single battle shown of Anakin, he's getting his a** kicked. He got his a** kicked by Dooku, and in ROTS, he's going to get his a** kicked by Obi-Wan. I do hear that Anakin gets Dooku in ROTS but that's about it. So far, we've only been told how great Anakin was and how fearful Vader was, but we've never really SEEN it. I mean, what the hell has Vader done to make him so feared? Why are the Jedi no match for him? Allegedly. That's what's so disappointing about the prequels, IMO. We should've been shown Anakin The Hero Without Fear. But instead, we are only told of it. Like, "Oh, by the way, we didn't show you any of this, but take our word for it...that Anakin...whoooooooeeeeee!" Supposedly, Vader was responsible for the Jedi Purge, but I haven't seen anything. So, strictly going on what we've been shown, I would have to say Revan, no question. Vader just seems like a really big bull dog that Sidious uses to scare people. Kind of like Darth Bandon. Hell, Tarkin was holding Vader's leash in ANH, and he's not even a Sith. Revan was more like Sidious. The real question is Revan or Sidious. NOW you're talkin

Interesting article on George Lucas in this weeks Variety. If anyone's even interested that is. :ph34r:

Actually all these side-quest can be completed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think that's what mellypie was saying. He/she (sorry, don't know) was saying that these quests can't be completed after you complete certain main plot quests. Edit: Sorry. Forgot where I was. The problem is, as someone else already pointed out, that this game does not have a place to list failed quests. So that even though the quest has been botched, it still appears in your journal as an active quest. One of the many minor attention to detail things that fell through the cracks with this game.

Dude. All I'm going to say is, I hope to God none of the above stuff is true, because if it is and was actually cut from the game, I am never going to buy another LA game again. I say LA because they take their orders from LucasFilm and they prolly thought all of the real emotional and darker content was not conducive to a Star Wars game. I am totally speculating there. But seriously. If just a fraction of what was mentioned above, actually made into the released version, the game would've not only been alot better for it, but it would've been far better than the first game. I mean, all that stuff totally fills in the plot holes, explains the story much better and more importantly, fleshes out all the characters. When I played through the game the first time it just felt so incomplete. And after successive playthroughs, it stills feels incomplete (except that I think playing the game DS is alot funner). It was just hard for me to believe that the vets at OE who have made so many other RPGs could just drop the ball so dramatically. That's why I've always reserved more of my harsher criticisms for LA. Even though I don't have a clue as to what really happened. Anyway, I've rambled long enough. But from viewing all the alleged cut out scenes, this game now SCREAMS for an expansion pack.

I think someone already said this, but I really don't think when K1 was being developed, the folks over at BioWare had a sequel in mind. Especially in light of recent announcements from BioWare stating that they will no longer develop licensed products. To add to this, when you actually PLAY K2, you can just TELL that K1 was not meant to have a sequel, imo. The writing seemed to reflect a "What if...?" type of attitude on the part of the writers and not necessarily a fleshing out of an epic story in which the first game was only a part. I mean, K2's story was good and all, and it had GREAT potential, but it just felt like they were trying to link it to the first game and push the series into new territory by forcing story elements on it, rather than just having pre-existing material in which to work from and thus, just writing an "Episode II." For example, when Lucas wrote A New Hope, he already had the general outline for Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi written down. Once the original Star Wars ended up being such a success, he then proceeded to finish the story. K2 would have been better as a stand-alone story that had nothing to do with the first game when I think about it. But, as I've said before, the majority of gamers (prolly including me) would've had a coniption if they didn't tie K2 in to the first game somehow. I surely didn't envy OE's position, that's for sure. :ph34r:

Chris Avellone

I'm not sure what exactly opens it up to be honest. I thought it happened automatically if you were DS. Maybe you have to go to Visas' chambers onboard the Ravager and let her succumb to her darkness. Let her give her speech about her hands being hate, and her eyes revenge. I know there's a conversation you have with Kreia right after Visas shows up. The one where Kreia starts off by saying, "You've befriended the Seer." As you navigate through all of the dialogue options, you should see a choice that pops up where you can ask Kreia if it's possible to sacrifice Visas in an effort to kill her master. I THINK you only get that option if all of your dialogue choices have been DS. Meaning, you have to let Kreia know that you care nothing for Visas and only want to use her to get to Nihilus. I think this happens right after Kreia warns you not to mate with her. One of the choices should be, "I'm only using her to track down her Master. And I intend to exploit this opportunity when it presents itself." Or something like that. If your female, you get a similar choice where Kreia just basically says, "Watch your back. Keep his slave close to you." And then after all that, you should see a choice that says, " But is it possible to sacrifce Visas to weaken her Master?" Which happens after Kreia tells you how powerful Nihilus is and how he is no longer a man. I hope that makes any kind of sense. But since I've always had the option to sacrifice Visas, I never really paid attention to what triggered it.