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Cut content: Cadegund and Forton

Cadegund Forton. The Devil of Caroc

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#1
hamskii

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Previously: Cut content: Durance and Grieving Mother

For anyone who is generally as fascinated with cut content in video games as I am, or as interested specifically in "what could've been" for PoE, I've managed to get copies of the NPC's Cadegund and Forton (two companions who were present in early promotional material) that were left in the game files, into the game. It wasn't actually that difficult in the end, I'm just not very technically-minded so it took me a while tongue.png the procedure was to load up the game with IEmod installed, and use the command "BSC companion_barbarian 0" (for example), then "FindCharacter Barbarian" to find the character's name, and then when that returned "Companion_Barbarian(Clone)", use "AddToParty Companion_Barbarian(Clone)" (for example).
 
The companions spawn without portraits (although Cadegund had a temporary portrait, which was just cropped from the first link above, in glimpses of the game you see in the documentary on steam). This leads me to believe that no art in the style of the other companions was ever produced for these characters, in the end (here's hoping Jason Seow or someone decides to produce some, although it's unlikely as fantasy human portraits aren't exactly hard to come by). The characters don't particularly resemble their concept art, probably because indices for skin/hair/face kept changing throughout development as more were added/removed and the numbers that determine the NPC's appearance no longer point to the hair styles and skin tones that they originally did. Both characters, as well as the Test Barbarian character, are incredibly pale-skinned, so I think this is the most likely explanation.
 
Here are some details from their character sheets:
 

Cadegund

tmn0u53.png

Name: *Missing characters 12*
Class: 5th level Priest (Magran)
Race: Meadow Folk
Background: The Dyrwood
Experience: 10000/15000
 
Attributes
Mig 14 (13 Base, +1 Human)
Con 15 (Base)
Dex 10 (Base)
Per 10 (Base)
Int 13 (Base)
Res 18 (16 Base, +1 Human, +1 The Dyrwood)

Skills
Stealth 0
Athletics 3
Lore 3
Mechanics 0
Survival 0

Abilities
1st Level Priest Spells
2nd Level Priest Spells
3rd Level Priest Spells

Talents
None


Forton

nnoiklA.png

Name: Forton
Class: 5th level Monk
Race: Savannah Folk
Background: Ixamitl Plains - Philosopher
Experience: 10000/15000
 
Attributes
Mig 17 (16 Base, +1 Human)
Con 14 (Base)
Dex 13 (Base)
Per 10 (Base)
Int 10 (Base)
Res 11 (9 Base, +1 Human, +1 Ixamitl Plains)

Skills
Stealth 1
Athletics 1
Lore 2
Mechanics 0
Survival 1

Abilities
Clarity Of Agony
Fighting Spirit
Stunning Blow
Swift Strikes
Torment's Reach
Transcendent Suffering 2
Turning Wheel

Talents
None


There are no filenames that mention Cadegund in the game files (that I could find), but there's still a couple of excerpts of conversations with or involving Forton:
 
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<StringTableFile xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
  <Name>conversations\07_gilded_vale\07_bs_forton_bystanders</Name>
  <NextEntryID>1</NextEntryID>
  <EntryCount>2</EntryCount>
  <Entries>
    <Entry>
      <ID>1</ID>
      <DefaultText>"There goes another one..." </DefaultText>
      <FemaleText />
    </Entry>
    <Entry>
      <ID>2</ID>
      <DefaultText>"Right, pay up. The other foreigner won." </DefaultText>
      <FemaleText />
    </Entry>
  </Entries>
</StringTableFile>
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<StringTableFile xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
  <Name>conversations\07_gilded_vale\07_cv_forton</Name>
  <NextEntryID>1</NextEntryID>
  <EntryCount>4</EntryCount>
  <Entries>
    <Entry>
      <ID>1</ID>
      <DefaultText>"These young dogs can't hold their blacsonn." </DefaultText>
      <FemaleText />
    </Entry>
    <Entry>
      <ID>2</ID>
      <DefaultText>"A smoke ought to clear up that sickly look about you." </DefaultText>
      <FemaleText />
    </Entry>
    <Entry>
      <ID>3</ID>
      <DefaultText>"One philosophical question and nobody wants to drink with you." </DefaultText>
      <FemaleText />
    </Entry>
    <Entry>
      <ID>4</ID>
      <DefaultText>"Move along, lad. I have no wisdom to bestow before I've had a pipe or two." </DefaultText>
      <FemaleText>"Move along, lass. I have no wisdom to bestow before I've had a pipe or two." </FemaleText>
    </Entry>
  </Entries>
</StringTableFile>
There may be other files that mention Cadegund and Forton, but I only searched through filenames rather than file contents, and I can only open the XML files. Someone more skilled than me will have to open the unity3d files, if they can!

What else do we know about these characters? We know that the GGP (God-Gnawed Priest) companion was at one point supposed to be more Falstaff-like, but I still see that as more likely to be an early incarnation of Durance than Cadegund. Other than that, I don't know anything else about these characters?

Why were these characters dropped? Cadegund was probably cut because it was decided that it wasn't worth the hassle after the boobplate controversy, and my guess is that Forton was cut after negative feedback on the forums (which is a shame imo, because we now have no monk companion, nor do we have an "ambassador" from the nearby Ixamitl Plains among the companions - nor do we have one from Readceras, incidentally). So it seems that Cadegund was replaced with Durance, another priest of Magran (maybe Cadegund also had a connection to the Godhammer - one of the Dozen maybe?), and I think it's probable that Forton was replaced with Hiravias, who took his position as the Wael-aligned companion.

We also know of two other companions: a hearth orlan cipher detective, seen in a couple of the early builds of the game in the documentary (no name unfortunately, just "Player2" and the like). This character used a crop of this concept art as a portrait, and was scrapped in favour of developing the faction Dunryd Row. We also know of "The Devil of Caroc", shown on a list of companions in the documentary as well as a early UI mock-up. In the documentary, the list is
  • Eder (not the final spelling Edér, or the original spelling Edair)
  • God-Gnawed Priest (so before Durance's name was finalised, unless Cadegund had a similar story)
  • Devil of Caroc
  • Aloth
  • Kana Rua (surname dropped in final version)
  • Sagani
  • Pallegina mes Rei (surname missing accent, and also dropped in final version)
  • Grieving Mother
This suggests that the Devil of Caroc was actually dropped quite late in development, lasting longer than Cadegund or Forton, despite the lack of publicity (spoiler companion maybe? But then why were they in the party the longest in the mock-up?). It seems that Hiravias is the only final companion missing from the list, so it is possible that Hiravias actually replaces the Devil of Caroc. It was speculated in this thread that the Devil of Caroc was a Death Godlike fighter companion (if you remember, Edér kept changing between fighter and rogue during development, as he was more of a guerilla-warfare-type soldier during the Saint's War), but I think it's possible that the Devil of Caroc was at some point the name for the hearth orlan cipher detective character. Without Hiravias, there would be no orlan companion, nor would there be a Glanfathan character. When the concept was dropped, their story became that of the Dunryd Demon. Points counting against this theory include the fact that the Dunryd Demon is actually a female orlan named Casŵen, and the fact that this would mean that from the list above, there were two cipher companions, the Devil of Caroc and the Grieving Mother, while there was not even a druid, monk, or rogue/fighter companion.

At some point, I might try and write backstories for these characters in the CNPC concepts thread, although it might turn out that their stories/themes have too much overlap with existing companions (being as they have been literally replaced with them). Otherwise, does anyone know anything else about these characters that I haven't covered here?

Edited by hamskii, 22 May 2015 - 12:08 PM.


#2
Tennisgolfboll

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Cool find!
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White Phoenix

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Nice! I am most interested in Devil of Caroc. If he/she was cut lately in game, maybe there are some files with their story? Dialogs, quests?



#4
perilisk

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Are you sure the god-gnawed priest didn't turn into Hiravius? He sort of fits the description.



#5
Silent Winter

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Do we know that Devil of Caroc was a designed companion? - maybe it was just an adventurer's hall companion added for that playthrough that we saw the screenie of.

Are there any game files for it, like you found for Forton?



#6
Sensuki

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There's character model files in the game (or at least there was in the beta) for Devil of Caroc, and there was also a portrait.

I think he evolved into Thaos, but I may be wrong.
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#7
hamskii

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Are you sure the god-gnawed priest didn't turn into Hiravius? He sort of fits the description.


Durance is in the game files as companion_ggp.unity3d (in PillarsOfEternity_Data/assetbundles/prefabs/objectbundle), so I think the god-gnawed priest has been Durance at least since Cadegund was scrapped (although it's possible that she was the GGP at one point, but I doubt it).
 

There's character model files in the game (or at least there was in the beta) for Devil of Caroc, and there was also a portrait.

I think he evolved into Thaos, but I may be wrong.


Hmm, there's nothing in the objectbundle folder about this character, nor is there any files with "devil" or "caroc" in the names. How were you opening model files? I haven't been able to do that.

I obtained a copy of backer beta 257, there's nothing in any filenames (or anything openable in Notepad) about the Devil of Caroc either. There isn't anything for Forton, Aloth etc. either, which suggests that most of the files for BB v257 pertain only to the backer beta (actually, I kind of suspect that Cadegund was adapted to be BB Priest). We know Thaos was a thing at this point in development, because there are files like thaos_shields_for_the_faithful.unity3d in the objectbundle and there's plenty about Iovara and Thaos in PillarsOfEternity_data/data/design/global/game.globalvariables. Also, the global variables file show Pallegia, Hiravias, Sagani, Kana, Eder, and Aloth were companions as of August 2014.

From Googling about this stuff I found this post of yours on RPG codex, that would have been during 257 right? How did you manage to get these portraits for Aloth and Caroc?

It sort of makes sense that the concept for Caroc would evolve into Thaos, in a way. "Caroc" doesn't sound like any modern location in Eora, but it does remind me of, say, Creitum, or any of the other civilisations that Thaos mentions existing inbetween Engwith and the Dyrwood:
 

The heart of this country has skipped a beat. Nothing more. I have done far worse. I plunged the peaceful kingdom of Tolosus into civil war. I slew the monarch of Desontio, whose people never knew hardship under his rule, and replaced him with a cruel despot who brought them to ruin. When plague arrived at the great city of Arborensis, I saw to it that the cure did not. They piled their dead outside the city in heaps that rose above their walls.



#8
Sensuki

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The files are in the Unity file system. You'll need disunity or Unity Studio to extract them.

#9
hamskii

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The files are in the Unity file system. You'll need disunity or Unity Studio to extract them.


Managed to get the texture for the Devil of Caroc's portrait out of the BB v257 files in PillarsOfEternity_Data/sharedassets9.assets, same as the one you posted in the RPG codex thread:

UOjB1oo.png

No large version that I could see, unfortunately. Tried the same procedure with a version of the game with patch 1.05 installed but I ran into quite a few errors with disunity. Here are the Devil of Caroc's texture/mesh files from v257 if anyone's interested. It might be possible to view them in-game with IEmod's ModelViewer or something, but I don't know exactly you'd go about doing that.

So, does anyone have any ideas about who/what this character might have been? I think someone in the RPG codex thread suggested an Eothas godlike, but to my eye it looks more like a animat or construct of some sort. Maybe a Vhailor/One of Many/HK-47/ED-E-type character? From the name alone, I'd have maybe expected the character to have a role similar to the Hanged Man in Van Buren - a powerful, early-game companion whose bad reputation causes problems for the party and forces the player to make a value judgement as to whether they are worth keeping around. It doesn't look like it's Engwithan, since it doesn't resemble the animats you find in their ruins, but it could be Dyrwoodan in origin. I opened up the collector's edition book, to the section on immortality studies:
 

During the years when animancers were solely employed by wealthy patrons, many of them pursued the arts equivalent of a philosopher's stone: unlocking the secrets of immortality. Popular interest in the topic elevated it to one of the constant goals at Brackenbury.

Many methods were explored, but the results were often too gruesome to pursue more than once. Early designs involved mummifying terminally ill patients in wrappings of copper wire and adra masks, effectively imprisoning the soul in the body. Neither living nor wholly dead, the patients exhibited dim awareness of their surroundings and were prone to violent outbursts. Driving a copper nail through the head or heart was a less than effective means of pinning the soul in place.

Brackenbury's eccentric founder, Ethelmoer, was once the willing subject of a "successful" soul transplant. His essence and awareness currently reside in a statue on the asylum grounds - an appropriate fate, as Ethelmoer never wanted Brackenbury's management in undeserving hands. To this day he holds the title of head warden, though his right to govern asylum matters is frequently challenged. Skirting Ethelmoer's authority is neither unprecedented nor particularly difficult to accomplish. New initiates have taken to calling him "Brackenbury's first patient", though never within earshot of his pedestal.

Since corporeal immortality seemed beyond reach, animancers fashioned adra talismans and placed them on the chests of dying patients to gauge how much of the soul's awareness remained intact after death. One such talisman was inserted in the brow of a copper-and-canvas golem. The figure stood up and took several steps before collapsing in a lifeless heap. Its inert remains were long on display in the sanitarium's lobby, where visitors reported it shifting positions while unobserved.


It's a pretty creepy story, that'd fit well with the one creepy portrait we have for the Devil of Caroc. Maybe the character was supposed to give some insight into animancy, and possibly some exposition on Abydon? It'd be interesting to explore how a Watcher could interact with such a construct, imo.

EDIT: another possibility

Historians theorise that animats served as protectors for royal tombs. Their creators bound the souls of the strongest guardians and servants to intricate sculptures made of various materials based on the soul captured within. All knowledge of their construction stems from the animats found in Engwithan ruins, and much about their artifice is still only the topic of speculation. Animancers were slow to pick up the secrets of animat creation, as studying these ancient behemoths often proved fatal. However, as the technique for this process became better understood, powerful animancers started creating their own animats to serve as personal guardians, using whatever weapons and materials they could manage to collect and melt down.

Animats can only be created using loyal, trustworthy souls that hold no doubt about those they must protect. While the ritual to create them can still be performed without that complete trust, too much doubt in a participant's soul can result in abominations that end up trying to rip their own bodies apart as violently as possible, causing extreme collateral damage in the process. Imperfect animats beset by a small amount of doubt will still obey most commands and reliably function as guardians. If they are reminded of their doubts, they can turn on their creators. Knowing about an animat's doubts can be a great advantage in combat, and most animat creators keep such doubts a closely held secret to prevent their creations from becoming reckless killing machines.


Edited by hamskii, 24 May 2015 - 05:31 AM.

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#10
Himntor

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Sad about Forton. He looked like he'd be one of the more interesting characters in the game. Would've liked to discuss philosophy with him :(



#11
TT1

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http://hydra-media.c...allpaper001.jpg

interesting place. and these bells, what they are? just a promotional art or perhaps the birthing bell?

#12
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About the Dunryd Row companion:

Bonus Question

[Marceror] Is there any cool detail about the game, perhaps something about a companion, a class or race, a story element or some other detail that you might be able to share with me, to be shared as an exclusive first at Sorcerer’s Place? Obviously something that you won’t get in trouble for sharing.

…Adam thinks solemnly for a moment….

[Adam] We are developing a character that is an Orlan Cipher, who is a detective (Orlans are a new race in Project Eternity. They are small folk based after the gnome and the Halfling). He isn’t necessarily upper class, but he comes from wealth, so he dresses very nicely. Because he’s a Cipher he has somewhat psychic abilities that help him as a detective, and he uses that to investigate murders and the like. So that’s a character we are developing right now.


Source: http://www.sorcerers...ead.php?t=58248

#13
Zwiebelchen

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I'm actually pretty glad that Cadegund was dropped in favor for Durance.

 

Judging from my first impression, Cadegund could have basicly gone way in one of two directions, bot not very attractive to me:

 

1) They designed her similar to Pallegina; being generally uninteresting due to being way too rational and normal. Also, too many "normals" then with Pallegina, Eder and Kana in place.

2) They designed her similar to Durance in her story, but her looks don't support the level of ****ed-up-ness that makes Durance' story believable.

 

 

About Forton: I guess Obs dropped the idea because he was very cliché to begin with. An eastern, bald monk? Wow, where have we seen that before?

From there he could have basicly gone in two ways, both being equally unoriginal:

 

1) a wise but guilt-driven random past-event troubled guy that wants to redeem himself, cracking know-it-all comments on every decision of the PC. This story would overlap way too much with Kana (know-it-all) and GM (past events redemption).

2) a completely insane, outright evil bastard who just enjoys killing things for the sake of it. Suffers from a lack of motif to hang along with your group and no real reason to beat Thaos.



#14
hamskii

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mJfwlYQ.jpg
 
Update: Devil of Caroc confirmed for the White March: Part 1 (far right, in the above image). She is a rogue construct, but there don't seem to be any more details. From her card, it seems she might be some sort of assassin?
 
Jh0Etjo.jpg
 
The card has an updated version of the old portrait, with a much more intricate, floral (Vailian?) design. It's clearer here that the plating is made up of separate components, and there is a hinge at the top of the face. The other companion we're getting is a monk, Zahua:
 
w4XxC92.jpg
 
Potentially we have a rework of Forton - another shirtless old dude, but no word on whether he's from Ixamitl or not. I hope we get a companion from there; it's a location in the Eastern Reach we don't know much about. Can we infer anything from their cards? The Devil of Caroc's effect: to destroy an enemy exhausted card at the expense of exhausting the Devil of Caroc, suggests that she might be an assassin, or could be a reference to the "reckless killing machines" bit about animats in the collector's edition book. As for Zahua, what does being the only card able to be assigned more than one soul gem suggest? Another Awakened companion?

 

This also means that the only class that doesn't have a companion is barbarian - could this be the hero yet to be revealed, or should we expect one to come in the White March: Part 2? If we don't see a barbarian companion, it'd make an ideal class for the PC in future playthroughs. Finally, JES on Cadegund and Forton being scrapped:


The initial lineup of companions was something that I put together early on during the Kickstarter process. Once we got into development, the writers wanted to prioritize different characters, so Cadegund and Forton were dropped. None of the characters were well-defined that early in development, so it's not like a bunch of material had already been created for them. It's possible they could appear in the future.

and @adam_brennecke on what Cadegund is up to these days:

Cadegund is off adventuring in another part of the world.


Edited by hamskii, 19 June 2015 - 04:47 AM.

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#15
Silent Winter

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^Love that Eder is petting Itumaak in that pic :lol:


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RtrnofdMax

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A couple of you have mentioned a Hearth Orlan Cipher detective. Couldn't that be the basis behind Kurren in Dunryd Row? He checks most of the boxes.



#17
AndreaColombo

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I don't get why the monk must be a bald old man ... Oh well.

 

Very interesting thread! I'm still sad about Cadegund having been cut—she was one of the characters I was looking forward to the most.


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#18
bonarbill

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A couple of you have mentioned a Hearth Orlan Cipher detective. Couldn't that be the basis behind Kurren in Dunryd Row? He checks most of the boxes.

 

That's  what I figured.  I'm surprised most people didn't speculate on it that much.

 

Glad to see Forton appear in some form.  hopefully zahua will have a similar\the same background to Forton.



#19
hamskii

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From the email sent out to backers, some more information on the (very cool) new companions:
 

Gtg7UvC.png
 
Zahua comes from an agrarian people known as the Tacan that dwells in the Ixamitl (ih-SHAH-mitt -ull) Plains to the north. (You may have known him as Forton once, but we renamed him to reflect his region of origin.) He belongs to the Nalpazca, a strict order of warrior-monks that constitutes the Tacan's standing army.

The Nalpazca distinguish between the material world and the imagined world of perceptions, feelings, and false structures, seeing the latter as the limiting force that prevents a person's transcendence. They employ extreme practices to remain ever-conscious of what is truly real, and are known for exhibiting bizarre anti-social behavior in public settings, consuming powerful hallucinogenic drugs, and inflicting great pain upon themselves, all so as to allow themselves to "see more clearly." There are even rumored to ritualistically cannibalize the flesh of the recent dead so that they might come to terms with their own mortality, though such rumors have the ring of superstition.

Zahua is the greatest living practitioner of Nalpazca beliefs, and even as you meet him, he is in continual pursuit of their ideals, which he believes will transform him into an unbeatable combatant. Above all, he believes in suffering as the path to enlightenment, and nearly every inch of his body is covered in scars - mostly self-inflicted. While some might see that as a grim or depressing viewpoint, from Zahua's perspective, suffering is a thing of beauty, to be admired and revered, and he is often able to appreciate situations that would dishearten most others. (Perhaps with a little too much cheer for some people's taste.)

The player will meet and get to know Zahua as a party member in White March Part I, and then his vision quest will come into focus later, in Part II.


rIuheVr.png

The Devil of Caroc is a bronze golem inhabited by the soul of a convicted murderer. She's ruthless and relentless, yet something about the player piques her interest when they first meet.

The Devil was once a trapper in Cold Morn, a village that became notorious for its role in the Saint's War. When she and her neighbors let the Readceran troops pass through town unopposed, they became a symbol of treachery and cowardice throughout Dyrwood. The Purges that swept the country began in Cold Morn, and everyone the Devil ever knew perished when an angry mob burned the village to the ground. The Devil survived and sought revenge on the men and women who set her home ablaze.

She's still a rustic at heart, but her crude manners belie cunning and a cynical sense of humor.


N.B. "vision quest" is Obsidian's internal name for a companion's personal storyline. It was also used for companions for Fallout: New Vegas, and is probably a reference to Native American vision quests, underscoring the requirement that companion quests contain some sort of character development.

We've seen Zahua/Forton's affinity for mind-altering substances hinted at in all four of his remaining lines in the game files. Since he was to be introduced in Gilded Vale, I'd assumed that this meant he was supposed to introduce players to consumables and possibly crafting. The fact that this all fits with what we already knew about him, and that his name was changed for lore reasons, suggests that the lore surrounding Nalpazca was more well-developed than we have been led to believe. I'd be interested in what other lore outside of the Dyrwood has been written, but it has been said that it's generally been intentionally left vague to give future developers more freedom. One notable absence from this character's new iteration is the lack of Wael's symbol tattooed on his stomach. Gameplay of both characters can be seen in this video.

As for the Devil of Caroc, I did wonder why we never got to see Cold Morn in-game. The fact that they kept dropping hints about it made me think it'd be explored in sequels, but I'd have thought that they'd want to go to places other than the Eastern Reach for those (then again, from this map, there's plenty we've yet to explore in the Eastern Reach). I'm glad we're finally getting some more information.
 
The only question left now is: who is the mystery character? Is it left a mystery for now because it's a character we have already heard of (and is therefore a spoiler), or just someone that Obsidian haven't got around to speaking about yet. Is it a companion, or just some other NPC? The only area in the Eastern Reach we've yet to have a companion from is Readceras, and of course we've yet to have a barbarian character. The races who are yet to be represented as companions are pale elves (which makes sense), coastal aumaua (although having Kana be from Rauatai allows them to get around this as much as possible), wild orlans (again, having Hiravias be Glanfathan mitigates this somewhat), all playable godlikes, and mountain dwarf. Since mountain dwarves are the biggest local racial group left unrepresented, my bet for the last character would be a Readceran mountain dwarf barbarian companion, introduced in the White March: Part II.


Edited by hamskii, 25 June 2015 - 03:08 AM.

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Karkarov

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The most recent update confirms... Forton was never pulled he was just slightly retooled and moved to the expansion.  More than likely Cadegund was just scrapped in favor of the Durance idea.  Nice to see the "Devil of Caroc" rumors and speculation all from one screenshot from one UI example image finally getting put to bed too.


Edited by Karkarov, 25 June 2015 - 03:42 AM.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Cadegund, Forton., The Devil of Caroc

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