Main Story way too short for an RPG! I am very disspointed...

[Voltron]

 

 

The Main Quest isn't short. Did you not explore? Talk to everybody? visit every building? Crawl every dungeon? Battle it out with Pirate ships? There is a ton of content. Heck im 29 hours in and just left Neketaka. There is so much damn content, its amazing!

 

That is side content, not Main Story, or if you prefer "Critical Path"/Campaign etc.

 

There is a lot of content around, but Main story is weak, short and unimaginative in my opinion. I hoped to follow Giant for quite long, learn new things, start new Acts (longer acts), meat new people etc. Instead I got cliche, short main story.

 

I feel sorry for you. I hope you learn to appreciate and enjoy games someday.  A crappy negative attitude like that will not make games fun.

 

 

I have 36 years man and played since first Mario came to first PCs. I enjoyed a lot of great games, especially RPGs, like Planscape, BG series, Morrowind, Gothic series, Witcher games, Vampire Masquarade and a lot a lot more from different genre. Recently fell in love in God of War. The best games I ever played cought me with story, characters or interesting world. Hence why I consider Skyrim one of worst RPGs ever. Got bored before I even touched main story (which was even shorter and more boring than Dreadfire).

 

I am at that stage that I am not impressed anymore by generic story told in game. I look for something new, fresh and exciting. First POE while not very original introduced a very interesting world for me, which kept me there. And it was first game founded by KS. From sequel I expected more focus on story, as I already know the world and now wanted to be hooked by great story inside it. Sadly I was not.

 

What you say is that you should always try to just force yourself to find best things in game and just forget about things that dissapointed you. Well, that is not imo how you build your taste. I am nowadays (because I don't have time like when I was teenager) very fussy and picky about games, because I like to slowly enjoy a good game. And while overall I enjoyed Deadfire as there is really nothing else being released now, it's 7/10 for me at best. 

 

Don't feel sorry for others just because they have different taste and view on same things. You sound childlish and it's very immature to act this way. I respect that you may have different opinion and I don't "feel sorry" for you just because you like something I consider medicore.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Voltron

[lersayil]

*snip*

 

And about Eothas and the soul stealing stuff. You don't as a player have very strong feelings for Eothas, if any feelings at all. You're told he took your soul. You tell other people this is what happened. You have no one to relate to about this and most of what you do doesn't seem connected to the soul anyhow, so even the story doesn't seem to care about your soul.

 

*snip*

 

On this part while I agree, i'd like to add in the bit where he basically wrecks you'r whole castle, possibly some people included you might have cared about. Also he is draining souls somewhat nonchalantly on his casual stroll in the countryside.

 

Not exactly Irenicus levels of personal hook, but it was a decent enough hook for my vindictive-atheist-****, and then fancy-nice-pants Watcher.

[CAlmond]

As much as I love the old games, people are looking at them through eyes of nostalgia. I find PoE2's story has bad points here and there, just like any game story. I don't think it was particularly great or particularly bad. It's good enough to be the reason why the PC is in the Deadfire area. Mostly I'm just enjoying wandering around the world doing random things, which is what I bought the game for in the first place. 

 

And as far as critical path length goes, BGII SoA critical path is less than 15h and that's me taking it easy. Anybody spending 50h on BGII critical path only run, is not doing a critical path only run, you probably went off and did a whole bunch of sidequests. Without even specifically aiming to raise money for Gaelan, his nephew usually comes running to me less than an hour after I'm out of jon's dungeon. I'm pretty sure Nalia's keep which is super easy gives you like 10k just from the quest reward alone, then you add in the stuff you picked up while doing it and you can get 15k easy with just one quest.

[Sceptenar]

"Less than 15 hours" could be a decent length, Deadfire's "slightly more than an hour" is not.

[Guest]

Currently about 100 hours into my first playthrough, so I guess I'm not sure where this is coming from.

[Wormerine]

Inb4 you get crucified for touching fallout, holy grail of all rpgs! But I agree with you lol. Classic rpgs developed some sort of double standards, we treat old rpgs like fallout or baldur's with awe and we tend to idealize them but towards newer creations we're approaching it with guns raised. I mean its not very fair, sure expectations can only go higher but I'm very grateful for the eye candy that comes with deadfire. I know story and char development used to be main bag of potato for these kind of games but you gotta understand that nowadays companies have to make games look good. Imagine if pillars 1 was done in baldur's gate graphics but made 20% longer with maybe better writing... it wouldn't grow as big as it is. My bet is it would be criticized for being "mere bg clone that tries to cash on old ideas".

 

Here is the thing: none of the BGs aren’t that big (around 50h each for a thorough playthrough). Bg2 most memorable content are sidequest, though I would agree that main story is probably more appealing and have more urgency than PoE1&2. Fallout1 is really short.

 

Deadfire has more content than BG2 and it isn’t filler either. Due to low difficulty bounties feel more like a fetchquest, rather than a challenging combat, but as we know difficulty has to be fixed overall.

 

The first RPG which focused on the lengthy critical path with little/weak sidecontent I can think of was KOTOR. That form (intro>bunch of mandatory missions unrelated to main story with main story development in between>Finale) has been used over and over again by Bioware ever since. KOTOR/Dragon Age’s critical path was for the most part sidecontent. In KOTOR you have story focused opening planet. Then you are sent after 4 MacGuffins and you get a main story content after the 3rd one. After you collect all, you get to the finale. You have three main story beats. DA:O has an opening act (origin+becoming a Grey Warden) than you are send after MacGuffins and the story doesn’t develop until the finale.

 

If you follow the guiding hand of NPC in Deadfire you get similar pacing as above - opening, bunch of “sidecontent” with occasional main story beats and, I imagine, the finale. However, In Deadfire obsidian doesn’t lock yo for going straight for the main story beats. But it’s filled with quality content. Would hardlocking main story until certain sidequest threshold is reach make it any better/worse? Just like in BG2 some of the best quests so far has been in those side missions and faction content.

[tela2k]

I think that's more that RPGs moved into the interactive movie/adventure game direction with very limited role-playing, super focused narrative where everything is connected and emotional moments for the player (using sob stories mostly). The amount of thread complaining about Deadfire story all have the same thing in common: I don't feel like the savior, the side content isn't connect to the story which make the story feel too short and the story doesn't make me feel anything.

 

Except that the same complains can be given to pretty much all the classic rpgs, like BG1 and BG2. I never cared one bit about the step father in BG1, you have like 5 lines exchange with him at the start of the game, but my character have or have not depending how I'm role-playing them. Most of the side content has nothing to do with the Iron Throne and even less with the final. The main story is pretty short too, I finished the game in 20 hours and that wasn't just focusing on the main quest (there was minimal side quests done). Same goes for BG2, once I'm out of the dungeon, I don't care about revenge or saving Imoen, but my character have options to how they might feel about it.

 

If BG1 was made as a modern RPG. It would have 1-2 hours of content doing cool things with the step father showing him as caring and nice before giving him a gut wrenching death so the player do feel super bad about it and want revenge. 90% of the side content would involve the Iron Throne or God of Murder cult(s) instead of being just local stuff. The role-playing aspect of the game will be limited to "I want revenge" and "I want to stop the bad guys" with no option to say "don't care, I didn't like my step father anyway". The final fight would be an epic battle against a god-Saverok where you just curb-stomp him with an epic cutscene. The entire game will be 100% in 25-30 hours, 10 hours of that being cutscenes.

 

 

I think you're right about BG1, you could remove the Gorion murder from the beginning and nothing would change for the player. At leeast for me I think it originally felt more like a detective story, where you try to find out what is behind the iron crisis and why. The framing for murder part at the half point is pretty good but yeah mostly the story doesn't give you much reason to care about anything.

 

But BG2 does give you a lot of reason to care. Not going to write it again, I think I've already said this so many times in different threads including this, but BG2's story is not just well written but well executed in-game. PoEs might be well written or not but it at least is badly executed. And I don't think it should take 10 hours of cutscenes to make you care about at least the main plot points.

[Wormerine]

 

 

On this part while I agree, i'd like to add in the bit where he basically wrecks you'r whole castle, possibly some people included you might have cared about. Also he is draining souls somewhat nonchalantly on his casual stroll in the countryside.

 

Not exactly Irenicus levels of personal hook, but it was a decent enough hook for my vindictive-atheist-****, and then fancy-nice-pants Watcher.

Here is the thing: this is Obsidian. Whenever they succeed or not they always want give you space to roleplay. At the same time they need to give you a hook, which forces whatever character you choose to play as to follow the story. That the trick with player-motivated protagonists. You can’t define what they care about. You can try to make them care about the one specific thing you want, or you can give him premade protagonist you cares about stuff you might not (Geralt, Shepard).

 

The intention isn’t for your Watcher to want revenge on Eothas. You can be pissed, you can want to be left alone, you can support his actions. He isn’t Irenicus designed to be an antagonist. Eothas’ attack on your keep forces you to follow him (or not - you do have an option to leave him be and die) and reasons for it are your own to make. No matter whose you choose to play it, what are your personal goals and world views, following Eothas makes sense. It’s a good hook. It’s your job to roleplay. If Eothas indeed isn’t interesting later in the story, that is a shame. I am hoping for some serious dilemma regarding stopping him.

[Voltron]

 

I think that's more that RPGs moved into the interactive movie/adventure game direction with very limited role-playing, super focused narrative where everything is connected and emotional moments for the player (using sob stories mostly). The amount of thread complaining about Deadfire story all have the same thing in common: I don't feel like the savior, the side content isn't connect to the story which make the story feel too short and the story doesn't make me feel anything.

 

Except that the same complains can be given to pretty much all the classic rpgs, like BG1 and BG2. I never cared one bit about the step father in BG1, you have like 5 lines exchange with him at the start of the game, but my character have or have not depending how I'm role-playing them. Most of the side content has nothing to do with the Iron Throne and even less with the final. The main story is pretty short too, I finished the game in 20 hours and that wasn't just focusing on the main quest (there was minimal side quests done). Same goes for BG2, once I'm out of the dungeon, I don't care about revenge or saving Imoen, but my character have options to how they might feel about it.

 

If BG1 was made as a modern RPG. It would have 1-2 hours of content doing cool things with the step father showing him as caring and nice before giving him a gut wrenching death so the player do feel super bad about it and want revenge. 90% of the side content would involve the Iron Throne or God of Murder cult(s) instead of being just local stuff. The role-playing aspect of the game will be limited to "I want revenge" and "I want to stop the bad guys" with no option to say "don't care, I didn't like my step father anyway". The final fight would be an epic battle against a god-Saverok where you just curb-stomp him with an epic cutscene. The entire game will be 100% in 25-30 hours, 10 hours of that being cutscenes.

 

 

I think you're right about BG1, you could remove the Gorion murder from the beginning and nothing would change for the player. At leeast for me I think it originally felt more like a detective story, where you try to find out what is behind the iron crisis and why. The framing for murder part at the half point is pretty good but yeah mostly the story doesn't give you much reason to care about anything.

 

But BG2 does give you a lot of reason to care. Not going to write it again, I think I've already said this so many times in different threads including this, but BG2's story is not just well written but well executed in-game. PoEs might be well written or not but it at least is badly executed. And I don't think it should take 10 hours of cutscenes to make you care about at least the main plot points.

 

 

Also consider that it was more than DECADE ago. Back then it was great story for video games. However, we are here right now, where all developers can already surpass and learn from previous games from decade ago and build them better story-wise.

 

Of course older games had their minuses as well. However we want things to improve and go foward, not backward. Do you want new cars and TVs to be as slow and troublesome as old ones.

 

What I try to say is: Deadfire main story is in NO way, not even one - innovative, memorable and exciting. 

 

We tend to idolize BG and old Fallouts because WHEN THEY CAME OUT- their stories were innovative, memorable and exciting.

 

Hard to expect from new games especially RPGs to not try to at least match them or at least for god sake- work on that main story more than just make it placebo again (in nowadays games) because "semi-open world, factions, activities, side content etc."

 

Well, great I have side content.... ok but where is my main story?

Edited May 16, 2018 by Voltron

[CAlmond]

*snip*

 

I am at that stage that I am not impressed anymore by generic story told in game. I look for something new, fresh and exciting. First POE while not very original introduced a very interesting world for me, which kept me there. And it was first game founded by KS. From sequel I expected more focus on story, as I already know the world and now wanted to be hooked by great story inside it. Sadly I was not.

 

*snip*

 

The thing is though, most of Deadfire is about fleshing out that world. Instead of a big main story that focuses on your character, it has a multitude of smaller stories that focuses on the rest of the people living in the world of Eora. Their motivations, their political stances, their goals, their culture etc.

 

The first game doesn't actually give you that much info about the world other than the Dyrwood area. You see mentions of other regions like the Deadfire, but no real meaningful info.

 

I think somebody else said it best, a lot of newer games basically falls into "the hero's journey" type story. Where it focuses on one character (the player character) and everything is about that character, even the small random things are somehow related to that character. That's not the case with Deadfire. Deadfire is about a world that you are dropped in with a passable reason/in game motivation for being in the area. But it's not really a story about The Watcher, it's a story about the world of Eora and it's people. The Watcher is just a footnote. 

 

If you want a hero's journey, PoE and PoE II are definitely not for you. But if you want to romp around in a fantasy world doing random things, PoE was decent and PoE II is great.

[mrmonocle]

 

Game overall looks great, but if you really sacrificed main story length and depth for stupid ship battles, some empty islands and ship customization system- then that was not a good deal.

 

Don't forget hundreds of work hours dedicated to PoE1 reactivity that no one cares about.

[Voltron]

 

*snip*

 

I am at that stage that I am not impressed anymore by generic story told in game. I look for something new, fresh and exciting. First POE while not very original introduced a very interesting world for me, which kept me there. And it was first game founded by KS. From sequel I expected more focus on story, as I already know the world and now wanted to be hooked by great story inside it. Sadly I was not.

 

*snip*

 

The thing is though, most of Deadfire is about fleshing out that world. Instead of a big main story that focuses on your character, it has a multitude of smaller stories that focuses on the rest of the people living in the world of Eora. Their motivations, their political stances, their goals, their culture etc.

 

The first game doesn't actually give you that much info about the world other than the Dyrwood area. You see mentions of other regions like the Deadfire, but no real meaningful info.

 

I think somebody else said it best, a lot of newer games basically falls into "the hero's journey" type story. Where it focuses on one character (the player character) and everything is about that character, even the small random things are somehow related to that character. That's not the case with Deadfire. Deadfire is about a world that you are dropped in with a passable reason/in game motivation for being in the area. But it's not really a story about The Watcher, it's a story about the world of Eora and it's people. The Watcher is just a footnote. 

 

If you want a hero's journey, PoE and PoE II are definitely not for you. But if you want to romp around in a fantasy world doing random things, PoE was decent and PoE II is great.

 

 

How about I want both :D like in Morrowind, Witcher 3 or BG2? It's not impossible to make at all.

 

But nevertheless- whatever we expected from game or whatever type of game we prefer - the point is: main story is not only short, but also weak. 

 

I can stand behind short main story (for example till this day I remember how good some short main stories were like for example CoD: Black Ops or Nier: Automata) if it's great or even just average good one if it's long. However when story is both short and weak- well, it's hard to find good thing about it.

 

I like other things in Deadfire, I am only dissapointed in main story.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Voltron

[tela2k]

Here is the thing: this is Obsidian. Whenever they succeed or not they always want give you space to roleplay. At the same time they need to give you a hook, which forces whatever character you choose to play as to follow the story. That the trick with player-motivated protagonists. You can’t define what they care about. You can try to make them care about the one specific thing you want, or you can give him premade protagonist you cares about stuff you might not (Geralt, Shepard).

 

The intention isn’t for your Watcher to want revenge on Eothas. You can be pissed, you can want to be left alone, you can support his actions. He isn’t Irenicus designed to be an antagonist. Eothas’ attack on your keep forces you to follow him (or not - you do have an option to leave him be and die) and reasons for it are your own to make. No matter whose you choose to play it, what are your personal goals and world views, following Eothas makes sense. It’s a good hook. It’s your job to roleplay. If Eothas indeed isn’t interesting later in the story, that is a shame. I am hoping for some serious dilemma regarding stopping him.

 

 

I get that, but there is a price to pay for maximising roleplaying space and there is a limit how much you can just leave to the imagination of the player. You also need to give them ample opportunities to show what kind of character they are. And not just that you can pick from aggressive/honest/clever/passionate/whatever, but there needs to be choice and consequence too. The actual roleplaying happens mostly in the faction quests, not the main quest. Since this is the no spoilers section I won't say more, and I hope it's just me and you found the main quest engaging.

 

Why IS this in the no spoilers section btw?

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by tela2k

[CAlmond]

"Less than 15 hours" could be a decent length, Deadfire's "slightly more than an hour" is not.

 

let me guess, easiest difficulty, skip every single VO, level scaling down? I said 15h is when I take it easy. If you want to rig things to that degree I can take my max exp sorcerer to the beginning of BGII, lowest difficulty, skip every single skippable cutscene and dialogue and finish that game in just about an hour too.

 

Between the gods, the narrator, onekaza, clario etc you have at least an hour's worth of voiced dialogue alone in the critical path of PoE 2. Although technically speaking you can finish PoE 2 in just a few minutes by telling Berath to go away, so I suppose PoE 2 is still shorter.

[CAlmond]

 

 

*snip*

 

I am at that stage that I am not impressed anymore by generic story told in game. I look for something new, fresh and exciting. First POE while not very original introduced a very interesting world for me, which kept me there. And it was first game founded by KS. From sequel I expected more focus on story, as I already know the world and now wanted to be hooked by great story inside it. Sadly I was not.

 

*snip*

 

The thing is though, most of Deadfire is about fleshing out that world. Instead of a big main story that focuses on your character, it has a multitude of smaller stories that focuses on the rest of the people living in the world of Eora. Their motivations, their political stances, their goals, their culture etc.

 

The first game doesn't actually give you that much info about the world other than the Dyrwood area. You see mentions of other regions like the Deadfire, but no real meaningful info.

 

I think somebody else said it best, a lot of newer games basically falls into "the hero's journey" type story. Where it focuses on one character (the player character) and everything is about that character, even the small random things are somehow related to that character. That's not the case with Deadfire. Deadfire is about a world that you are dropped in with a passable reason/in game motivation for being in the area. But it's not really a story about The Watcher, it's a story about the world of Eora and it's people. The Watcher is just a footnote. 

 

If you want a hero's journey, PoE and PoE II are definitely not for you. But if you want to romp around in a fantasy world doing random things, PoE was decent and PoE II is great.

 

 

How about I want both :D like in Morrowind, Witcher 3 or BG2? It's not impossible to make at all.

 

But nevertheless- whatever we expected from game or whatever type of game we prefer - the point is: main story is not only short, but also weak. 

 

I can stand behind short main story (for example till this day I remember how good some short main stories were like for example CoD: Black Ops or Nier: Automata) if it's great or even just average good one if it's long. However when story is both short and weak- well, it's hard to find good thing about it.

 

I like other things in Deadfire, I am only dissapointed in main story.

 

 

Definitely agree it's not impossible to make. But think of relative budgets between the games. PoE 2 cost around $4 - $5m right? That is tiny relatively speaking. Witcher 3 was $80m+ if I remember correctly. BGII was also in the $4m range from memory, but that's almost 20 years ago so in relative terms it still costs a whole lot more than PoE 2 when you take into account inflation.

 

PoE 2 is a small to medium sized game budget wise. Can't compare it like for like against games with multiple times their budget and man-hours.

[Ninjamestari]

I always remember a different New Vegas: a lot of crap filler content, unmemorable characters, topped off by a really stupid and pointless, bullet sponge boss fight.

 

 

New Vegas wasn't bad, but the only reason it gets so much praise is because the only comparison is made against Fallout 3, which basically didn't even have a story, that's how bad it was. It's all relative to your point of reference. People expect a ton more from PoE because it gets compared to BG and BG2. If the only comparison we made for the story in Pillars was Skyrim for example, you'd hear nothing but praise from people, but alas, this genre and style has a legacy to live up to, and it fails to do so.

[Wormerine]

It depends what you want from your RPGs. Witcher 3 is one of my fav games in recent years but it’s not a good RPG. I loved ME2, but it’s not a good RPG. BG2 wasn’t a great RPG. All of them were, and are, fantastic games.

 

Fallouts1&2 were praised and are loved to this day not because of their stories (aka. plot) or that it was the best story told at that time, but that is was a great RPG - you had freedom in creating a character, and a world which would respond to this character, and quest and systemic design, which would allow to interact with the world with variety of ways. If I were to complain about Deadfire I would say that Fallout2 is still probably better. Appeal of Fallouts were never good antagonist or exciting plot, and it’s the same with Deadfire. If that’s not your cup of tea, and prefer your games to be a more focused, narrative coherent experience, that’s alright. But that’s not what RPGs are. At least, not to me. Genres are funny that way. So far I don’t see Deadfire as failure, as I don’t think it aimed to achieve things you claim it should have. I don’t care much about Eothas so far, but I can about factions and my place in this world. Which means broken dispositions and companion relationships bother my much more than short “crit path”.

[The Sharmat]

Meh, I'm with OP. I wasn't that into New Vegas and the plague of open world cannibalizing all main quest content in what few RPGs are still made is killing me.

The only thing worse is arguments about what RPG actually means.

Edited May 16, 2018 by The Sharmat

[morhilane]

"Less than 15 hours" could be a decent length, Deadfire's "slightly more than an hour" is not.

 

Don't compare apple and oranges. Deadfire in 1 hour and 15 minutes was a developer speedrun without exploit, not normal gameplay. BG2 speedrun record without exploit is also around 1 hour as well (with them it's 21 minutes).

Edited May 16, 2018 by morhilane

[Starwars]

Someone brought up New Vegas and how it was praised only when compared to Fallout 3 or somesuch and that's not true at all for me. I prefer it to Fallout 2 myself (and vastly prefer it to 3 and 4 of course), though the first game is still my favorite in the series.

 

And add me to the crowd who appreciates those kinds of RPGs. That is not about leading the player through a bunch of plot points but which throw you into a world, and gives you freedom to interact with the world and its factions/locations. I'd much rather play Fallout, New Vegas, Deadfire or a more obscure game such as Age of Decadence, then I would a game of the "Bioware school of game" so to speak (rough generalizations here). The plot may not be heavy, but the stories these games tell through the gameworld and the player's impact on them is far more enjoyable to me than "omg, the main character is Revan!!!11"

When it comes to something like BG2, the reason I liked that game (and it is a big reason) had a lot to do with Athkatla, and the way both games managed to sell the "adventure in a dangerous world" vibe. It had *nothing* to do with the story for me, and characters like Imoen had... the opposite reaction from me than what the game wanted to push.

 

Not to say that the Eothas plotline couldn've have been better of course, as far as that goes I think PoE1 was much better, but I will *gladly* take the freedom of Deadfire any day of the week.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Starwars

[Draigo]

I agree that the main story is really short but there are a lot of content if you finish every side quest. This happens with a lot of RPG if not all so at least for me is not a real problem, it would be nice if it was longer but I like it anyway.

[Ryz009]

 

-snip

(unless you played evil but BG2 stops making alot of sense if you're evil).

-snip-

Interesting conversation, I can attest to feeling like PoE is missing a personal hook,

but I honestly just wanted to comment on this (in the quote)

 

You are out for revenge.

Everyone around you suffers because of your Bhaal blood, they cling to you only to suffer more, you do not care, because you are cacklingly evil.

"I'm looking for a wizard who tortured me and I'm going to murder him."

Imoen: "You came for me!"

PC: "No I didn't, I came for revenge and now everything is screwed up, find your own way out, brat."

Imoen: 

"You can keep the dragon eggs Mr. Demon Lord in exchange for a crappy halberd!"

Murder silver dragon to finish human skin armor.

Slay popular ranger and his buddies.

Slay Irenicus because he stole your birthright.

 

Also you can surround yourself with a party of psychopaths.

Evil is built into the story of the BG-trilogy. You either fight it or embrace it.

In PoE it really doesn't make sense to be evil, the blood pool and the thing in Deadfire feel really out of place to me.

And you are surrounded by condescending bastards. GM straight up just took and left after I juiced that baby.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree because the opening of BG2 as evil never made sense. And then walking into a trap over Imoen who my evil half elf could care less about? Naaah.

 

[Ryz009]

I always thought Thaos is just mostly wasted potential. The basic idea for the character is actually very cool, I mean a guy that has the knowledge of thousands of years, makes plans that take centuries to come to fruition and can posess people and vessels does tickle my imagination. Unfortunately he only shows anything about this part of himself twice in the whole game. We learn about him mostly from Old Exposition Lady and Ghostly Exposition Lady and when we see him he's usually talking to someone else or torturing GEL who we really don't have any reason to care about.

 

And about Eothas and the soul stealing stuff. You don't as a player have very strong feelings for Eothas, if any feelings at all. You're told he took your soul. You tell other people this is what happened. You have no one to relate to about this and most of what you do doesn't seem connected to the soul anyhow, so even the story doesn't seem to care about your soul.

 

Ryz brought up the Irenicus soul stealing moment which goes like this:

You already hate the man from the very beginning of the game, and every time you try to rest he's there lecturing you with his bs. You get to Spellhold you think you'll get satisfaction.

Instead you find out you've been tricked and you get to watch another scene where this arrogant pos goads you and now steals your and Imoen's soul. (You also get a pretty cool mirror fight)

After that you have Imoen to relate to, Bodhi mocking you about the souls, and pretty much everything in the game after that is focused on reaching Irenicus and getting your soul back AND the dreams get quite bad after that. Also the dreams are actually shown instead of telling you in purple text that you're having a bad dream. 

 

PoE just really fails at making you care about your characters goals in both games. I think this is really the reason people have such strong feelings about the length of the main story in Deadfire. It's not that it's short, it's just disappointing. All the time you are waiting, hoping that it will get exciting at some point and when it ends you just feel let down. The best parts about Deadfire are the companion quests and the faction quests and dispositions and that is pretty much all tied to the companions too. Thus it's a lot easier to care about your companions, because their quests and quests related to them make you care about them for good or bad, but your own questline -the main quest- fails, kind of making the main character fail with it.

 

So for me the right way to play Deadfire is just ignore the main questline and consider the companion and faction questlines the meat of the game. It does make the game feel like it kind of lacks a goal, but the meat is mostly so good that I'm fine with it.

 

Edit: typos everytime

 

Well I had strong feelings for Eothas because he broke my castle, and killed me. It's not like he just steals your soul all my good equipment is gone because of him. That was sufficient for my character's motivation. And I actually do feel weak because my PCs powers are gone so that actually worked for me. That said it's a ymmv situation.

[Jayngo]

So, a story on my phone's news feed just came across saying someone beat Deadire in 26 minutes. Using Beraths' Blessings and killing Eder immediately.

 

steamed.kotaku.com

 

I get that speed runs are always insane and using Berath's Blessing unlocks could potentially make it a lot easier, but this should never be able to happen in a traditional cRPG.

[Ryz009]

So, a story on my phone's news feed just came across saying someone beat Deadire in 26 minutes. Using Beraths' Blessings and killing Eder immediately.

 

steamed.kotaku.com

 

I get that speed runs are always insane and using Berath's Blessing unlocks could potentially make it a lot easier, but this should never be able to happen in a traditional cRPG.

 

Someone beat DOS2 in about 33 minutes. BG2 has 25 minutes and lower. Speedruns are speedruns.

 

Do not use a speedrun to test a game length. The whole point of a speedrun is to beat the game asap.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Ryz009