[POTD Difficulty] Launch NOT tuned discussion thread

[Erik Dirk]

So POE1 was way too easy on hard, yet POTD was slightly out of reach for most, unless you trawled for tips on the forums.

I feel as though blessings of Berath could very easily be a great equaliser with a few more options.

If we had another option that would add as well as subtract from the primary abilities, Might, Dex, etc I feel everyone could find their perfect difficulty.

I am not a 'l33t' gamer but I get the impression that hard is already at the level Josh wants it. Which is way to easy.

I'd really like to see a POTD where slightly more than casual gamers can find a real challenge with a very minor boost, only serious gamers can finish without blessings and true masochists can still enjoy an OP build with curses.

[Ashen Rohk]

PotD is currently bugged. It's being fixed soon so it should be as difficult as intended.

[master guardian]

POTD is broken unplayable at the moment

 

people are killing dragons in 30 seconds

 

doing all bounties without ever a companion getting knocked out

 

basicaly stomping all over the place with no consequence

[theBalthazar]

5 accuracy of paladin is the real joke.

 

When you know you cannot stack this with Stance of fighter (Accuracy+5)

 

And more, when you have devotion of faithful.

 

Imagine a situation :

 

Priest + Fighter/Paladin in the team.

 

I have devotion of faithful (1) and my multiclass has conquerer stance (2) and zealous focus (2) activated.

 

Total cost : 4 abilities points. effect of ? only 1.

 

Ridiculous. Stacking rules for items are awsome. But items can be moved. So the prioritty of stacking need is more abilities than items : p And obsidian do the contrary...

 

For devotion of the faithful, It is the only reason to pick a priest... So I don't know. There is no more the boost of 10 accuracy with healing (in POE1) and spells level 9 are not crazy...

Edited May 14, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Juodas Varnas]

doing all bounties without ever a companion getting knocked out

You can't have your companions knocked out if they never get into the fights and you solo everything with Rogue-shenanigans.

[Zeitzbach]

Devotion isn't as mandatory as PoE 1 though thanks to empower and new resource system. Some weapon like Arquebus can also receive +25 acc modal which is HUGE for very little penalty (takes slightly longer to shoot). I removed Xoti from my team 60% into the game because her story was completely done with no room for new development and I got through it easy. If anything, the real reason priest was so darn useful in PoE1 was because of the anti-cc spells. Both side are just perma ccing each other for the win with dominate, stun and paralysis. In PoE2, this is heavily toned down and you can multi class anyone into a priest if you really need it. Once you pass a certain level and gear, your ACC is just way too high for the enemy defense to keep up.

 

If anything, pure priest kinda suck. You need to spec them into multi to be useful because T7 T8 T9 spells are really meh.

 

The PotD being undertuned is some they already admit though and that they will rebalance it in the future.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Zeitzbach

[Wormerine]

PotD is currently bugged. It's being fixed soon so it should be as difficult as intended.

Oh is it really? Higher stats don’t work or something? I thought they simply didn’t do much work on it.

[Mikeymoonshine]

I feel like Veteran should be harder too tbh.

[Judicator]

 

I have no idea how it made it from PoE1 without getting nerfed. 

 

Maybe they finally decided they would rather let us have fun than "balance" everything? I'm having a lot more fun in Deadfire than I did in PoE 1 and part of the reason is how grossly overpowered you can become. 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Judicator

[master guardian]

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/98843-level-scaling-upwards-doesnt-do-anything/

 

 

Level scaling is  broken and not working

[master guardian]

 

 

I have no idea how it made it from PoE1 without getting nerfed. 

 

Maybe they finally decided they would rather let us have fun than "balance" everything? I'm having a lot more fun in Deadfire than I did in PoE 1 and part of the reason is how grossly overpowered you can become. 

 

You should be able to select a difficulty level that is appropriate though

 

currently there is no hard difficaulty

[Ashen Rohk]

It is coming.

 

Bug fixing is much more important than balancing the hardcore end of play. The critical bugs need to be addressed first.

[mrmonocle]

Everybody STOP!!! they'll nerf the spell!

[daven]

I was disappointed when I saw blessings were basically just cheats. Thought they would offer some more interesting gameplay changes.

 

OH WELL.

[Zelse]

 

For devotion of the faithful, It is the only reason to pick a priest... So I don't know. There is no more the boost of 10 accuracy with healing (in POE1) and spells level 9 are not crazy...

 

Suppress affliction (level1), Pillar of faith is now level 2 --> aoe knockdown + good damage for level 2, dire blessing is a balanced version of devotions of the faithful (that just happens to stack with it), divine mark is great,

 

shining beacon is crazy good

 

Priests in general have great fire damage spells at higher levels, this is important because there are quite a number of items in the game that give bonus to fire type spells cleansing flame and pillar of holy fire in particular,

 

Xoti gets 2 of the best spells in the entire game, in kit level 1 and ESPECIALLY level 7 spells are CRAAAAAZYYYY

 

I honestly think Priest and especially xoti have some of the best offensive spells in the game rn IN ADDITION to how insane devotions of the "skillful" are.

 

All healing was done by other characters in my runs (1 reason being how good moonwell is but thats another story). I used priest exclusively for buffing and damage.

 

There are a ton of things besides devotions that make priest good.

 

*EDIT*: all that said, if you would give me the choice between a character that has NOTHING except weapons and devotions for the faithful 2 times per combat OR a character that has ALL OTHER SPELLS IN THE GAME! I still would pick the guy who has devotions.

 

It really is that insanely good.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Zelse

[master guardian]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jesawyer/status/992566809856434177

 

Looks like I’ll be doing a re run of POE1 until then

 

Hopefully only a week away because the first patch is out tomorrow I think

[algroth]

Stop flooding the forum with threads on the same issue. Already your previous two threads on the subject were merged with this one, which is where the ongoing conversation on PotD tuning is happening: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/97171-potd-difficulty-launch-not-tuned-discussion-thread/

[Nixl]

On a related note, I also find the wound system far too lenient.  Virtually no resources are lost from a character being knocked out.  You just consume hardtack, which is not hard to find or  buy, and which also carries the benefit of regenerating empowerment charges. It is borderline irrelevant in my playthrough due to all the food I have come across and the lack of any major resting restrictions.  

 

What I also find strange is that the crew system on the Defiant has a more complex version of the wound system than the player.  When crew member obtains a wound, it can take several days to heal, unless you use medicine/surgeon.  Is there any way this could not be ported over to the player?  Specifically, that wounds do not automatically heal upon rest, and instead take time to drop off.  I find that far more interesting than the current wound system, especially if you restrict the amount of money the player comes across. 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Nixl

[Wormerine]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jesawyer/status/992566809856434177

 

Looks like I’ll be doing a re run of POE1 until then

 

Hopefully only a week away because the first patch is out tomorrow I think

I mean, all Josh confirmed here is that the rebalance won’t come with the hotfix.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Wormerine

[Wormerine]

On a related note, I also find the wound system far too lenient.  Virtually no resources are lost from a character being knocked out.  You just consume hardtack, which is not hard to find or  buy, and which also carries the benefit of regenerating empowerment charges. It is borderline irrelevant in my playthrough due to all the food I have come across and the lack of any major resting restrictions.  

 

What I also find strange is that the crew system on the Defiant has a more complex version of the wound system than the player.  When crew member obtains a wound, it can take several days to heal, unless you use medicine/surgeon.  Is there any way this could not be ported over to the player?  Specifically, that wounds do not automatically heal upon rest, and instead take time to drop off.  I find that far more interesting than the current wound system, especially if you restrict the amount of money the player comes across.

 

I just rested for the 2nd time in about 25 hours of gameplay:-).

 

I think you idea could be interesting, but: you have to always have PC in your party. That’s the biggest issue I have, as rotating companion composition to let them heal could be an interesting mechanic. That’s sort of the problem, which previous system couldn’t get over either - you can’t really do a serious damage to PC and companions are they are crucial to enjoyment of the game.

 

Imagine how this system could mess with players questing - even if they didn’t need to be inactive in order to heal, it probably would be undiserabke to stack up woulds on one companion. I plan to go to the Gullet next, and let’s say that Takehu or Serafim are injured, and I want to take them with me, because of story and faction reasons. Having to wait for them to heal could have been annoying.

 

Any long term resource management is in clash with how the game’s bigger structure is designed. I don’t feel like ditching resting (which I feel Deadfire did to some extend) is hurting the game that much.

[Nixl]

 

On a related note, I also find the wound system far too lenient.  Virtually no resources are lost from a character being knocked out.  You just consume hardtack, which is not hard to find or  buy, and which also carries the benefit of regenerating empowerment charges. It is borderline irrelevant in my playthrough due to all the food I have come across and the lack of any major resting restrictions.  

 

What I also find strange is that the crew system on the Defiant has a more complex version of the wound system than the player.  When crew member obtains a wound, it can take several days to heal, unless you use medicine/surgeon.  Is there any way this could not be ported over to the player?  Specifically, that wounds do not automatically heal upon rest, and instead take time to drop off.  I find that far more interesting than the current wound system, especially if you restrict the amount of money the player comes across.

I just rested for the 2nd time in about 25 hours of gameplay:-).

 

I think you idea could be interesting, but: you have to always have PC in your party. That’s the biggest issue I have, as rotating companion composition to let them heal could be an interesting mechanic. That’s sort of the problem, which previous system couldn’t get over either - you can’t really do a serious damage to PC and companions are they are crucial to enjoyment of the game.

 

Imagine how this system could mess with players questing - even if they didn’t need to be inactive in order to heal, it probably would be undiserabke to stack up woulds on one companion. I plan to go to the Gullet next, and let’s say that Takehu or Serafim are injured, and I want to take them with me, because of story and faction reasons. Having to wait for them to heal could have been annoying.

 

Any long term resource management is in clash with how the game’s bigger structure is designed. I don’t feel like ditching resting (which I feel Deadfire did to some extend) is hurting the game that much.

 

True, but I would find that preferable over the current system.  At least then the player would have to decide how to handle wounded companions, as opposed to the current system in which there is no thought to it (i.e., rest with hardtack).  Another example is that one could just spam rest for several days/weeks, but they would lose resources in the form of ship upkeep (wages, food, water, etc.).  Furthermore, you could ramp up difficulty by reducing available money, and/or increasing the cost of medicine, doctors, and ship upkeep. This would tie into other systems, such as ship maintenance, and actually create some tension for resources.  

 

Ultimately, there are no real consequence to the current wound system, so long as resting being free or the cost to healing wounds being borderline free (i.e., hardtack).  

 

Edit:  I think parts of this system already is in place.  I imagine wounds, like any affliction, can receive a time duration.  Medicine already exists as a ship supply and could be used at the rest screen in lieu of food.  Finally, a doctor/surgeon would reuse the inn resting mechanic, just with a healer instead. 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Nixl

[Jimmy]

True, but I would find that preferable over the current system.  At least then the player would have to decide how to handle wounded companions, as opposed to the current system in which there is no thought to it (i.e., rest with hardtack).  Another example is that one could just spam rest for several days/weeks, but they would lose resources in the form of ship upkeep (wages, food, water, etc.).  Furthermore, you could ramp up difficulty by reducing available money, and/or increasing the cost of medicine, doctors, and ship upkeep. This would tie into other systems, such as ship maintenance, and create a resource cost for wounds.  

 

Ultimately, there are no real consequence to the current wound system, so long as resting being free or the cost to healing wounds being borderline free (i.e., hardtack).  

 

I largely agree. In it's current guise the rest system may as well not exist - but maybe they were hesitant to completely remove what has been a component of the genre forever (for better or worse).

 

I was kind of hoping Berath's Blessings could've been used for things like this though, something akin to XCOM's 'second wave' options.

 

A couple of ways you could try and make resting relevant is by firstly increasing the occurence of wounds - a 'blessing' which enables a % chance for your party to receive injuries from attacks which take out enough % of their health in one hit. It could roll against the related defense stat (deflection, reflex, fort, will) and inflict an appropriate injury. That way dumping constitution or resolve will not only make a character squishy in general but more likely to get physically injured as well.

 

And from the other side you could impose more of a resource penalty for resting. Significantly increase crew wages so that rest spamming away injuries or replenshing rare 'per rest' abilities and items will at least hurt your wallet. You could slow down the passage of time on the world map to compensate so you're not unfairly penalised for exploring.

 

Or maybe that would be terrible? It's hard to say, but I hope it gets looked at in some way or another.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Jimmy

[Nixl]

 

True, but I would find that preferable over the current system.  At least then the player would have to decide how to handle wounded companions, as opposed to the current system in which there is no thought to it (i.e., rest with hardtack).  Another example is that one could just spam rest for several days/weeks, but they would lose resources in the form of ship upkeep (wages, food, water, etc.).  Furthermore, you could ramp up difficulty by reducing available money, and/or increasing the cost of medicine, doctors, and ship upkeep. This would tie into other systems, such as ship maintenance, and create a resource cost for wounds.  

 

Ultimately, there are no real consequence to the current wound system, so long as resting being free or the cost to healing wounds being borderline free (i.e., hardtack).  

 

I largely agree. In it's current guise the rest system may as well not exist - but maybe they were hesitant to completely remove what has been a component of the genre forever (for better or worse).

 

I was kind of hoping Berath's Blessings could've been used for things like this though, something akin to XCOM's 'second wave' options.

 

A couple of ways you could try and make resting relevant is by firstly increasing the occurence of wounds - a 'blessing' which enables a % chance for your party to receive injuries from attacks which take out enough % of their health in one hit. It could roll against the related defense stat (deflection, reflex, fort, will) and inflict an appropriate injury. That way dumping constitution or resolve will not only make a character squishy in general but more likely to get physically injured as well.

 

And from the other side you could impose more of a resource penalty for resting. Significantly increase crew wages so that rest spamming away injuries or replenshing rare 'per rest' abilities and items will at least hurt your wallet. You could slow down the passage of time on the world map to compensate so you're not unfairly penalised for exploring.

 

Or maybe that would be terrible? It's hard to say, but I hope it gets looked at in some way or another.

 

During beta, I suggested something similar.  Specifically, that certain creature or boss abilities would apply a wound without a K.O. being a prerequisite.  That way would put more emphasis on player input, such as dodging or interrupting enemies.    

 

An increase to the cost of ship upkeep could work, although I still lean more towards medicine/wound duration, because it already exists in the crew injury system to an extent.  Furthermore, in a setting that  has medicine and surgeons, why would cheap hardtack be a cure to all injuries?  It is kind of ridiculous when I think about it.     

 

As it currently stands, the player input is reduced to putting hardtack in a slot and hitting the rest button.   

Edited May 14, 2018 by Nixl

[Tigranes]

 

On a related note, I also find the wound system far too lenient.  Virtually no resources are lost from a character being knocked out.  You just consume hardtack, which is not hard to find or  buy, and which also carries the benefit of regenerating empowerment charges. It is borderline irrelevant in my playthrough due to all the food I have come across and the lack of any major resting restrictions.  

 

What I also find strange is that the crew system on the Defiant has a more complex version of the wound system than the player.  When crew member obtains a wound, it can take several days to heal, unless you use medicine/surgeon.  Is there any way this could not be ported over to the player?  Specifically, that wounds do not automatically heal upon rest, and instead take time to drop off.  I find that far more interesting than the current wound system, especially if you restrict the amount of money the player comes across.

I just rested for the 2nd time in about 25 hours of gameplay:-).

 

I think you idea could be interesting, but: you have to always have PC in your party. That’s the biggest issue I have, as rotating companion composition to let them heal could be an interesting mechanic. That’s sort of the problem, which previous system couldn’t get over either - you can’t really do a serious damage to PC and companions are they are crucial to enjoyment of the game.

 

Imagine how this system could mess with players questing - even if they didn’t need to be inactive in order to heal, it probably would be undiserabke to stack up woulds on one companion. I plan to go to the Gullet next, and let’s say that Takehu or Serafim are injured, and I want to take them with me, because of story and faction reasons. Having to wait for them to heal could have been annoying.

 

Any long term resource management is in clash with how the game’s bigger structure is designed. I don’t feel like ditching resting (which I feel Deadfire did to some extend) is hurting the game that much.

 

 

Expeditions: Conquistador and E: Viking did this, as they were much more about the strategic/exploration layer. And it worked very well.

 

I'm sure there will be some issues if you put it in a game like POE, though I would be perfectly fine to think 'I want to quest with Serafim, oh he's injured from the last outing, I need to wait.' I don't see that as an annoyance, I see that as a nice part of roleplay and emergent gameplay situations.

 

Whatever is done, I would at least like the option to play with some combat-related resource management and attrition. Right now you just spam every ability you have every battle in an identical way, all your health regenerates magically the instant you finish, and when you see you have a lot of wound buttons you hit the magic rest button in the middle of a dungeon. The fun of treating a dungeon as an actual dungeon rather than an amusement park where you get cookies and coffee after every 'battle', the fun of trying to make it through a fight with a low health character or a wizard running out of spells making do with ones you never even tried to use before - nope, now we have a much narrower bandwidth of playstyles supported.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Tigranes

[Jimmy]

During beta, I suggested something similar.  Specifically, that certain creature or boss abilities would apply a wound without a K.O. being a prerequisite.  That way would put more emphasis on player input, such as dodging or interrupting enemies.    

 

An increase to the cost of ship upkeep could work, although I still lean more towards medicine/wound duration, because it already exists in the crew injury system to an extent.  Furthermore, in a setting that  has medicine and surgeons, why would cheap hardtack be a cure to all injuries?  It is kind of ridiculous when I think about it.     

 

As it currently stands, the player input is reduced to putting hardtack in a slot and hitting the rest button.   

 

 

I think your idea of tying it into the existing crew injury/rest system makes perfect sense, it's just that as long as spending time is a non-issue it would just result in players putting their favourite injured party member into the recovery slot and simply waiting/resting the duration with little to no consequences. At that point the entire mechanic may not as well exist.

 

If standing around waiting a few days actually cost me a significant amount in gold/resources when I'm trying to save up for a particular item, upgrade or whatever else, that would at least introduce some semblence of decision-making to the process. But maybe still not enough.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Jimmy