What multiclasses have you played with so far?

[dunehunter]

1. Devoted/Berath is pretty good, spiritual weapon of berath is insane.

 

2. Stalker/Paladin is very sturdy and with a lot full attack abilities you can spam. Plus mark from both class stack(although currently sworn enemy + mark the prey < old sworn enemy, sadly they nerf it). Aura and support abilities of paladin helps ranger pets. So good combo overall.

[THCRaven]

Hello, I'm new to this genre but I like to be efficient while playing from the first play-through, so I invoke the help from veteran advice. (As I don't have access to the beta and even if I had I'm a noob)

 

First off I favor aesthetics over gameplay in the sense that one of my dps is going to wield 2h greatsword no matter how op dual-wielding is and my tank is not gonna equip a hachet no matter how many deflection it provides. Imo I should be able to complete the game on PotD with any weapon I fancy.

 

The next thing are stats, from what I've seen people are dumping Intellect and Resolve in favor of Might/Perception/Dexterity (For Melee dps) and Constitution/Resolve in case of range dps. I think it is not necessary and the most I will dump are 1-2 points in Con and Res, with Might > Perception > Dexterity for melee dps with high accuracy and Perception > Might > Dexterity > Intellect For casters.

 

Now it's the turn of the party composition : 

 

1. Tank - My two options are either Golden Pact/Priest(Which priest idk I suppose the one with the better party buffs) and Golden Pact/Unbroken (To take advantage of the positioning                     from the fighter's charge and even more tankiness), I think the best option is the first, but I'm not too sure.

 

2. Striker/Offtank - This is more or less set in stone and it will be my PC, it will be Bleak/Devoted 2h Greatsword, with constant recovery + paladin tank aura (The Golden Pact can't have                                 auras so it will help my tank) + conqueror stance for single-target and cleaver for Aoe + FoD + +2 pen from talents and another 2 from devoted + high accuracy +                                       disciplined strikes. I think it is a solid choice with balance between tankiness and damage + I it will be cool af xD.

 

3. Range Striker - I thought of an Evoker although this is a bummer because I don't specially like the godlike but the nature one's passive is too good. On topic, my doubts with this one                                   is the weapon and if it should really be an Evoker, as I heard they nerfed the proc and conjuration magic is really good.

 

4. Range Control/Striker - For this one I had in mind either a pure Beguiler ,a Beguiler/Rogue or a Beguiler/Sharpshooter. In this case I don't care about the weapon, just the main                                                       accuracy for spells and maybe a weapon modal that reduces enemy's defenses. Also I don't want to be a godlike with this one, so that leaves Human and elf,                                             which one would be better?

 

5. Support -  I'm open here, I think the best choice is a Priest but I don't know how the buff stacking works so I need pointers for this spot.

 

 

 

Thank you in advance.

[M4xw0lf]

Are there any good synergies for ranger / paladin?

You mean the combination of ranger and paladin, or ranger + x / paladin + x?

[Stargazer55]

I mean the combination of ranger and paladin, either ranged or melee. I‘d love the concept. But I don‘t know if it makes any sense from a mechanical standpoint.

[Boeroer]

Yes, it's very good. Lots of Full Attacks per encounter (FoD and Wounding Shot). And also good defensive synergies if you choose Stalker. The pet can be healed with Lay on Hands, it's damage raised with Shared Flames. You can be ranged or melee.

[Tattyblue]

Reading through this thread has put the fear of Skaen in me.  It would seem Fighters and Paladins have been boosted and Priests were not nerfed. While other classes like Barbarian have been nerfed when they did not need it and other poor classes have not been boosted enough or at all.

 

Look at the +++ builds you will see a mix of any class with either a  devoted or unbroken (fighter) , a priest or a paladin of various orders.

 

Where are the druid/barbarians, cipher/wizards, or other combinations without the big 3.

[KDubya]

Reading through this thread has put the fear of Skaen in me.  It would seem Fighters and Paladins have been boosted and Priests were not nerfed. While other classes like Barbarian have been nerfed when they did not need it and other poor classes have not been boosted enough or at all.

 

Look at the +++ builds you will see a mix of any class with either a  devoted or unbroken (fighter) , a priest or a paladin of various orders.

 

Where are the druid/barbarians, cipher/wizards, or other combinations without the big 3.

 

I wouldn't put too much stock in this thread. Most of the builds are from beta 1 which was way unbalanced, with hardly any from the current beta 3 or 4 whatever its up to now.

 

Before the current Beta penetration was king and only Fighters had access to weapon styles. This meant that for melee dps you wanted a Devoted for extra penetration as well as the +20% attack speed from dual weapon style. It didn't hurt Devoted's popularity that the weapon specialization was bugged and let you take more than one weapon. Plus there was a bug where multiclasses got lots of extra abilities on level up which further powered them up. Also weapon speeds were bugged and heavy one handers attacked at fast attack speeds which also only had like one second recoveries instead of the current 3 second.

 

Now everyone gets weapon styles so Fighters are not so special anymore. Single classes get bonus ability picks on power level ups, penetration on weapons has been drastically changed such that I'm not sure its worth wearing armor ever. 

 

Fighters are pretty much limited to Disciplined strikes, chaining cleaves to kill trash and regen. Not bad but not the easy auto pick for a Harbinger of Death melee god.

 

Priests are still a very strong class and Paladins are still in my opinion the strongest melee class either pure or multi.

[Frog Man]

THC - nice party you put together. I just have two quick notes:

 

1) for your evoker, if you don’t like godlike don’t pick one. Sure nature godlike is ‘optimal’ but if you want a mage with a hood or something go for it. Don’t let optimization get in the way of fun. A human evoker will still be strong.

 

2) support - priest all the way. They have a buff called devotions of the faithful which is a huge accuracy buff that stacks with all other ACC buffs. On top of that their spells are great for healing, buffing, and Damaging on occasion. Just a hunch - but I bet their high level abilities kick ass.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Frog Man

[Frog Man]

KDubya- can you help me understand the armor conundrum? Are you really running through beta 4 with a naked party?

[THCRaven]

THC - nice party you put together. I just have two quick notes:

 

1) for your evoker, if you don’t like godlike don’t pick one. Sure nature godlike is ‘optimal’ but if you want a mage with a hood or something go for it. Don’t let optimization get in the way of fun. A human evoker will still be strong.

 

2) support - priest all the way. They have a buff called devotions of the faithful which is a huge accuracy buff that stacks with all other ACC buffs. On top of that their spells are great for healing, buffing, and Damaging on occasion. Just a hunch - but I bet their high level abilities kick ass.

How can one tell which buff stack and which doesn't ?

[Boeroer]

Stacking in PoE was a huge mess.

 

In Deadfire it's supposed to be better:

 

General stacking rule of Deadfire: passives stack always (right side of the tree). Actives (left side) only stack if they address different stats. For example +5 PER stacks with +20 Accuracy. The effect is +25 accuracy but the first didn't address accuracy directly but PER instead.

 

So Devotions (if it says it raises ACC universally) shouldn't stack with other accuracy buffs that also raise ACC directly and universally. For example it shouldn't stack with Zealous Focus or Warrior Stance (+5 ACC). If it does it's a violation of the stacking rules. I didn't test this combo yet. Maybe there's an exception because those are modals. I hope not.

 

I know that it doesn't stack with Borrowed Instinct that buffs ACC directly by 20.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Boeroer

[KDubya]

KDubya- can you help me understand the armor conundrum? Are you really running through beta 4 with a naked party?

 

Normal weapons have 7 penetration, some have 8  and armor piercing ones have 9 penetration.

 

Naked or robes have 3 AR. All attacks do over penetration and you have 0% recovery penalty

 

Light armor has 5 AR with a 4 versus one type. This means all attacks will do full damage everytime and that the mid penetration weapons will overpenetrate if they have the correct damage type and armor piercing will always overpenetrate. The take away here is never wear light armor.

 

Medium armor has 7 AR with a 6 versus one type. This means all attacks will do full damage at all times (assuming equal levels of enchantment) but nothing will overpenetrate unless their is a critical hit. So -35% recovery time gets you protection from overpenetration only. Basically if you went naked and dropped 6 points of dexterity and added 6 to constitution you'd have -18% action speed and +30% health while a medium armor wearer has -35% recovery and avoids the over penetration damage boost of 30%. Better to go healthy + clumsy than wear medium armor.

 

Heavy armor (Plate)has 9 AR with a 6 versus crush (Brigandine has a 6 versus pierce) This means normal weapons will do 50% damage unless they are the one type that works well, the mid penetration types will do -25% damage unless they are the correct type and armor piercing weapons will do full damage. This comes at the cost of -55% recovery.

 

So light armor is worthless, medium armor only stops overpenetration and heavy armor has protection against some normal weapons and some mid penetration weapons and no protection from armor piercing weapons.

 

To make even heavy armor a good trade you want to have some additional armor boosts like Gold Pact, Iron Skins, Barbarian's thick skin, Berserker Rage or something like that.

[Boeroer]

With heavy armor + AR abilites (especially passives that stack) you enter the interesting zone of AR. Everything below is meh.

 

I'd always prefer strong healing over AR since there's no health system anymore that prevents the abuse of excessive healing. And since attack speed penalties hurt a lot more than in PoE (double inversion) and the attack speed bonuses have diminishing returns in Deadfire (opposed to PoE) it's harder to speed you up - and speed is important. So I want to avoid as many speed penalties as possible (as long as there's a good reason - better than uneffective AR - to endure it).

 

The pitfalls of the PEN/AR system. But surely it's better than having a "mushy" DR system*...

*hint for the sarcastically impaired: whatch out, there's irony.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Boeroer

[THCRaven]

So heavy armor for tanks and the rest deflection + healing ?

[M4xw0lf]

And what about the barbarian's thick-skinned ability? The boni from wearing an armor on the armor rating against various damage types should still do something for you, shouldn't they? Especially when you go Berserker and get +2 AR while frenzied. I felt fine leather armor was the way to go for all my various Barb builds.

[KDubya]

And what about the barbarian's thick-skinned ability? The boni from wearing an armor on the armor rating against various damage types should still do something for you, shouldn't they? Especially when you go Berserker and get +2 AR while frenzied. I felt fine leather armor was the way to go for all my various Barb builds.

 

If you can stack enough AR boosts it becomes worthwhile.

 

In the example you mention, a Berserker with fine light armor you have 5 +1 (fine) +1 (thick skin) + 2 (Berserk rage) for a total of 9 AR with 8 versus the weak type. For -20% recovery you have -50% damage from normal weapons, -25% from fine normal weapons, no protection from some of the mid pen weapons, -25% from the rest of the mid pen weapons, no protection from fine mid pen weapons and no protection from armor piercing weapons. Even crits won't be able to over penetrate you.

 

If you went with fine robes you'd have a AR of 7 and no recovery penalty. This would stop anything from over penetrating you and even armor piercing weapons would need a crit to over penetrate.

 

If you went all in with plate you'd be at 13 AR, now we have some armor worth wearing. Even Fine armor piercing weapons are getting socked with -75% damage. Definitely worth the -55% recovery speed. Just Dual wield with the style boost and your attacks will be plenty fast, add in the speed boost from rage and some boost from the on kill effect and you are a Harbinger of Death melee god.

 

The extra two penetration that they gave to every weapon really cheapens the value of armor.

[AndreaColombo]

It's a double-edged sword. In the previous system, basically every weapon would under-penetrate all the time unless you played a Devoted or Berserker or had access to other penetration-boosting buffs.

 

DR was frankly better, but looks like the SA people begged to differ...

[Boeroer]

It's called Something Awful for a reason, right?

[Ascaloth]

Just a couple of questions.

 

1) For Fighter/Barbarian multiclasses, if Cleaving Stance is activated, does each hit from Cleaving Stance come with Carnage as well?

 

2) I've read somewhere that bare fists also counts in a Devoted's proficiency bonus. Does that mean if I equip slash/pierce weapons in one weapon set and go bare fists in the other, that means the Devoted has all physical damage types covered?

 

3) Has anyone tried a Nature Godlike Evoker/Lifegiver Sorcerer? Since both subclasses have PL bonuses, I figured a quick Nature's Balm might boost the PL of both classes even higher, making this a character that can both nuke and heal well above its weight. How would this character work compared to a pure Evoker or LIfegiver?

 

4) I'm thinking about making a Sharpshooter Ranger that specs in War Bows, with weapon modal activated for double the Penetration bonuses. Is there any point in speccing for superior Penetration? Is there anything else I can multiclass this guy with for even greater Penetration? Assassin seems to be the obvious choice, but having to start fights and take Shadowing Beyond for the invisibility seems like such a pain.

 

5) Are Priests better off being single-classed than multi-classed. It seems that way to me, because - with the possible exception of Wael and Skaen - Priests don't seem to have much in the way of multiclass synergy. Not to mention high-level Priest spells were pretty good back in the first game, and multiclass Priests lose access to those.

[dunehunter]

Just a couple of questions.

 

1) For Fighter/Barbarian multiclasses, if Cleaving Stance is activated, does each hit from Cleaving Stance come with Carnage as well?

 

2) I've read somewhere that bare fists also counts in a Devoted's proficiency bonus. Does that mean if I equip slash/pierce weapons in one weapon set and go bare fists in the other, that means the Devoted has all physical damage types covered?

 

3) Has anyone tried a Nature Godlike Evoker/Lifegiver Sorcerer? Since both subclasses have PL bonuses, I figured a quick Nature's Balm might boost the PL of both classes even higher, making this a character that can both nuke and heal well above its weight. How would this character work compared to a pure Evoker or LIfegiver?

 

4) I'm thinking about making a Sharpshooter Ranger that specs in War Bows, with weapon modal activated for double the Penetration bonuses. Is there any point in speccing for superior Penetration? Is there anything else I can multiclass this guy with for even greater Penetration? Assassin seems to be the obvious choice, but having to start fights and take Shadowing Beyond for the invisibility seems like such a pain.

 

5) Are Priests better off being single-classed than multi-classed. It seems that way to me, because - with the possible exception of Wael and Skaen - Priests don't seem to have much in the way of multiclass synergy. Not to mention high-level Priest spells were pretty good back in the first game, and multiclass Priests lose access to those.

 

1) I tested it, answer is yes;

 

2) Yes;

 

3) Haven't tried it;

 

4) Overpenetration not worth it, so no;

 

5) both are good depends on your build, priest is of good utility.

 

Regards to cleave, now it seems every time you cleave, it will apply a cleave effect on enemy (to prevent self triggering i guess? This seems to be new to me).

Edited April 8, 2018 by dunehunter

[Boeroer]

Regards to cleave, now it seems every time you cleave, it will apply a cleave effect on enemy (to prevent self triggering i guess? This seems to be new to me).

Erm... what?

 

Sorry - I don't understand what you are trying to say.

[Frog Man]

 

And what about the barbarian's thick-skinned ability? The boni from wearing an armor on the armor rating against various damage types should still do something for you, shouldn't they? Especially when you go Berserker and get +2 AR while frenzied. I felt fine leather armor was the way to go for all my various Barb builds.

If you can stack enough AR boosts it becomes worthwhile.

 

In the example you mention, a Berserker with fine light armor you have 5 +1 (fine) +1 (thick skin) + 2 (Berserk rage) for a total of 9 AR with 8 versus the weak type. For -20% recovery you have -50% damage from normal weapons, -25% from fine normal weapons, no protection from some of the mid pen weapons, -25% from the rest of the mid pen weapons, no protection from fine mid pen weapons and no protection from armor piercing weapons. Even crits won't be able to over penetrate you.

 

If you went with fine robes you'd have a AR of 7 and no recovery penalty. This would stop anything from over penetrating you and even armor piercing weapons would need a crit to over penetrate.

 

If you went all in with plate you'd be at 13 AR, now we have some armor worth wearing. Even Fine armor piercing weapons are getting socked with -75% damage. Definitely worth the -55% recovery speed. Just Dual wield with the style boost and your attacks will be plenty fast, add in the speed boost from rage and some boost from the on kill effect and you are a Harbinger of Death melee god.

 

The extra two penetration that they gave to every weapon really cheapens the value of armor.

REALLY appreciate the explanation. Sounds like robes, nudity, and tons of heals are the prescription.

 

Something like heavy armor herald, heavy armor berserker, naked priest, naked troubadour (heals and shields), robed evoker could work.

[Boeroer]

Well you can always wear clothes.

[JerekKruger]

Well you can always wear clothes.

 

PREPOSTEROUS!

[Madscientist]

You said that you prefer naked + healing over heavy armor because healing is not limited anymore.

Well, casters have only 2 spells per spell level and if you face several enemies who deal full damage you will take a lot of damage.

If you do not take so much damage you can use your resouces for something else instead of healing (e.g. paladin FoD instead of LoH)

 

I think I will put my front liners in heavy armor.