Resolve! Huh, What is it good for?

[Lamppost in Winter]

I'm not sure why we're concerned about deflection? Resolve's deflection bonus is relatively small, and even if you pumped it to 20 you'd still not meet the Fighter's base deflection (in PoE that is, don't know off the top of my head the Deadfire values).

 

What if we put the suggested Affliction duration modifier into Con?

[Aramintai]

Why nobody dump Per, is Accuracy more important than Deflection?

I'd say they're on par. Accuracy to help hit things, deflection to help not get hit.

[hilfazer]

Why nobody dump Per, is Accuracy more important than Deflection?

 

Accuracy is rolled against all 4 defenses while Deflection is just one of them so ... kinda yes.

 

 

Looks like suckage of Resolve and crappyness of casters had been dealt with in a single blow. Good job Obsidian!

[Aramintai]

 

Oh this is another slight resolve change from Josh

 

Zore posted:

I hope they really rebalance how stats are checked for conversations or we're going to end up with lovely caster supremacy issues where their primary stat unlocks all the good dialogue that resolve did in PoE1.

 

 

Dialogue skills are used far more for checks than straight stats.

 

As of two months ago, Resolve had 32 checks, Might had 34. By comparison, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Bluff are all checked 100+ times.

 

That's some good news. In theory. Right now skill points seem rather scarce and it is unknown how much you have to pump them to pass most checks.

[dunehunter]

 

Why nobody dump Per, is Accuracy more important than Deflection?

 

Accuracy is rolled against all 4 defenses while Deflection is just one of them so ... kinda yes.

 

 

Looks like suckage of Resolve and crappyness of casters had been dealt with in a single blow. Good job Obsidian!

 

 

Yeah so the conclusion seems to be Deflection being inferior to the bonus other stats provides, and that's why Res is not a good stats. 

[Aramintai]

 

 

Why nobody dump Per, is Accuracy more important than Deflection?

 

Accuracy is rolled against all 4 defenses while Deflection is just one of them so ... kinda yes.

 

 

Looks like suckage of Resolve and crappyness of casters had been dealt with in a single blow. Good job Obsidian!

 

 

Yeah so the conclusion seems to be Deflection being inferior to the bonus other stats provides, and that's why Res is not a good stats. 

 

I'm not sure it's a good idea to compare offensive and defensive bonuses. And the point I'm trying to make is not about usefulness, but about logic and fairness. Deflection logically by description doesn't suit Resolve and spellcasters should not come close to deflection of melee classes, not just the fighter. And it is unfair to other attributes to put so many bonuses into Resolve just because right now it is a dump stat and needs some love.

[draego]

 

 

Why nobody dump Per, is Accuracy more important than Deflection?

 

Accuracy is rolled against all 4 defenses while Deflection is just one of them so ... kinda yes.

 

 

Looks like suckage of Resolve and crappyness of casters had been dealt with in a single blow. Good job Obsidian!

 

 

Yeah so the conclusion seems to be Deflection being inferior to the bonus other stats provides, and that's why Res is not a good stats. 

 

So that could be a potential change then to make Res more useful. Put everything back in Might and make Res contribute to all defensive stats +/- 1 to all Def/Ref/For/Will. or you can tweak the amount it changes like +2 deflection and +1 all the other defenses. Its not as dramatic as the change that just happened but it makes Res more useful and penalizing for dumping

Edited November 28, 2017 by draego

[Climhazzard]

What about something like this?

 

Strength (STR) - ±3% Weapon Damage, ±2 Fortitude

Constitution (CON) - ±5% Health, ±1 Deflection, ±2 Fortitude

Dexterity (DEX) - ±3% Action Speed, ±1 Accuracy, ±2 Reflex

Perception (PER) - ±3 Interrupt, ±6% Area of Effect, ±2 Reflex

Intellect (INT) - ±5% Duration, ±3 Concentration, ±2 Will

Resolve (RES) - ±3% Spell Damage/Healing, ±2 Will

 

 

I don't think the old concentration/interrupt system would work with the new spell casting times.  The only way to get a 6-9 second spell off for sure is to be able to precast something with concentration.

 

If you're thinking about what makes the most sense thematically for deflection, which is kind of a catch all for dodging, parrying, blocking, and deflecting...  then it would honestly have to be split between multiple stats.  A higher perception wouldn't just mean you could see farther for example, you'd have better dynamic vision which would make it easier to avoid attacks.  A higher dexterity would make you faster and better at dodging them.  A higher strength would make it easier to block and deflect attacks.  

 

Resolve is kind of a synonym for determination or perhaps toughness, so I guess that's why it ended up there.  All they really needed to do is add something to resolve, such as a change to affliction durations.

 

If I were ok with splitting damage types I think I wouldn't put it on resolve.  

 

Perhaps this instead.

 

Strength:  +5% weapon damage, 2 fort defense

Con: +5% health, 2 fort defense

Dexterity: 3% action speed, 2 reflex defense

Perception: +1 accuracy, +5% area of effect, 2 reflex defense

Intelligence: +5% duration, +5% spell damage, 2 will defense

Resolve: +1 deflection, -5% affliction duration, 2 will defense

 

It would probably be possible to get -100% affliction duration but you'd have to sacrifice a lot to get there so I don't think that would be a problem really.  Though maybe -4% would be better.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Climhazzard

[Gromnir]

 

 

Oh this is another slight resolve change from Josh

 

Zore posted:

I hope they really rebalance how stats are checked for conversations or we're going to end up with lovely caster supremacy issues where their primary stat unlocks all the good dialogue that resolve did in PoE1.

 

 

Dialogue skills are used far more for checks than straight stats.

 

As of two months ago, Resolve had 32 checks, Might had 34. By comparison, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Bluff are all checked 100+ times.

 

That's some good news. In theory. Right now skill points seem rather scarce and it is unknown how much you have to pump them to pass most checks.

 

we did notice the relative diminished significance o' stats in dialogue and cutscene interactions.  the skill checks we saw in deadfire beta were rare exceeding 5, which may be a function o' it being the beta.  also seemed as if a few checks were solely individual checks as 'posed to benefiting from party assist.  is far more skills than stats. unlike poe, is gonna be far more difficult to come up with some kinda ideal dialogue spread o' skills and stats... which is good. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[CENIC]

Is there any way to edit these and test out different methods of reshuffling attributes? Like a save editor or something?

[draego]

 

 

 

Oh this is another slight resolve change from Josh

 

Zore posted:

I hope they really rebalance how stats are checked for conversations or we're going to end up with lovely caster supremacy issues where their primary stat unlocks all the good dialogue that resolve did in PoE1.

 

 

Dialogue skills are used far more for checks than straight stats.

 

As of two months ago, Resolve had 32 checks, Might had 34. By comparison, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Bluff are all checked 100+ times.

 

That's some good news. In theory. Right now skill points seem rather scarce and it is unknown how much you have to pump them to pass most checks.

 

we did notice the relative diminished significance o' stats in dialogue and cutscene interactions.  the skill checks we saw in deadfire beta were rare exceeding 5, which may be a function o' it being the beta.  also seemed as if a few checks were solely individual checks as 'posed to benefiting from party assist.  is far more skills than stats. unlike poe, is gonna be far more difficult to come up with some kinda ideal dialogue spread o' skills and stats... which is good. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Ye i actually agree with you there. if you have all these skills its nice to know they will be used alot instead of worrying about stat spreads

Edited November 28, 2017 by draego

[Aramintai]

If you're thinking about what makes the most sense thematically for deflection, which is kind of a catch all for dodging, parrying, blocking, and deflecting...  then it would honestly have to be split between multiple stats.  A higher perception wouldn't just mean you could see farther for example, you'd have better dynamic vision which would make it easier to avoid attacks.  A higher dexterity would make you faster and better at dodging them.  A higher strength would make it easier to block and deflect attacks.  

 

There is also a simple solution, I've suggested it earlier - remove deflection from attributes altogether. Make only armor and shields affect it (and some deflection increasing spells maybe). That way there will be no auto-tank spellcasters and everyone will give more thought as to what to wear. Want to be a tank? Put on some heavy armor, man.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Aramintai

[theBalthazar]

Josh said :

 

or the use of Empower being time-gated based on Resolve. The former is still defensive and the latter is of marginal value.

 

 

Also an interresting approach with empower...

 

+1 empower strength level each point.

 

Like, with 20 resolve = very strong empower. (+10 power level ?)

 

Base : 10

In negative : -7 power level. So 10 -7 = only 3 power level each empower.

With the max side : 10 + 10 = 20 Power level. (Yes it is a big number, but you see the principle : p)

Edited November 28, 2017 by theBalthazar

[JerekKruger]

God I hope this gets reverted.

 

Same. I liked Pillars attribute system where every attribute could be useful to every class. It wasn't perfectly balanced (Resolve was something of a dump stat in Pillars as well) but this change goes away from that.

 

I also really don't like the change of name to Strength. Even with the change, Might describes the attribute just as well and ensures consistency with Pillars.

[Doppelschwert]

I don't know why, but most people here seem to ignore that the classes have different base values for deflection.

Recalling from memory, the fighter enjoys 30 deflection while the wizard enjoys 15... no amount of resolve will bridge that gap if you try to build a 'good tank'.

 

While I don't particulary like the change, I don't hate it either. This is a nerf to casters:

They trade weapon damage for deflection, which, depending how well you keep them from harm, is a loss. They'll also have really weak fortitude defenses, which was less of an issue with the high might.

Martials don't lose anything except the healing maybe, and most hybrids can do fine with one way of dealing damage as well. The cipher is probably the only one really at loss here, and even then, they can just shift to spells which don't deal damage.

[Baltic]

I also really don't like the change of name to Strength. Even with the change, Might describes the attribute just as well and ensures consistency with Pillars.

To be fair that might be the idea behind it. Make it clear to returning players that something has changed since Pillars 1. Edited November 28, 2017 by Baltic

[JerekKruger]

To be fair that might be the idea behind it. Make it clear to returning players that something has changed since Pillars 1.

 

Possibly, but it just feels jarring to me.

 

It also bugs me from an import point of view: if I import a high Might Wizard from Pillars into Deadfire I have redistribute their attributes to achieve the same sort of character, and that puts me off importing at all.

[Aramintai]

 

To be fair that might be the idea behind it. Make it clear to returning players that something has changed since Pillars 1.

 

Possibly, but it just feels jarring to me.

 

It also bugs me from an import point of view: if I import a high Might Wizard from Pillars into Deadfire I have redistribute their attributes to achieve the same sort of character, and that puts me off importing at all.

 

With so many big changes I don't think anyone will be able to make the same type of character from POE1. Importing is gonna be good only for story decisions.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

 

To be fair that might be the idea behind it. Make it clear to returning players that something has changed since Pillars 1.

 

Possibly, but it just feels jarring to me.

 

It also bugs me from an import point of view: if I import a high Might Wizard from Pillars into Deadfire I have redistribute their attributes to achieve the same sort of character, and that puts me off importing at all.

 

With so many big changes I don't think anyone will be able to make the same type of character from POE1. Importing is gonna be good only for story decisions.

 

Yep, starting at level 1 at that, which I'm really looking forward to.

[JerekKruger]

With so many big changes I don't think anyone will be able to make the same type of character from POE1. Importing is gonna be good only for story decisions.

 

Puts me off importing altogether. I might as well treat it as a completely new game.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Heh, in so many ways, PoE1 starts to look like a test balloon, and now we finally get to see the real Pillars of Eternity, with all of Obsidian's creative might behind it.

 

See what I did there?

[Aramintai]

 

With so many big changes I don't think anyone will be able to make the same type of character from POE1. Importing is gonna be good only for story decisions.

 

Puts me off importing altogether. I might as well treat it as a completely new game.

 

Well, you won't lose anything by not importing, except maybe for some exclusive perk for being a veteran. The game will have a system akin to Tyranny where you'll be able to choose whatever decisions you made in POE1.

[JerekKruger]

Well, you won't lose anything by not importing, except maybe for some exclusive perk for being a veteran. The game will have a system akin to Tyranny where you'll be able to choose whatever decisions you made in POE1.

 

I lose the experience of importing. One of the things I enjoyed most about the Baldur's Gate series was importing my character, but if Baldur's Gate 2 had used D&D3e I wouldn't have. Feels the same here.

[Gromnir]

 

Well, you won't lose anything by not importing, except maybe for some exclusive perk for being a veteran. The game will have a system akin to Tyranny where you'll be able to choose whatever decisions you made in POE1.

 

I lose the experience of importing. One of the things I enjoyed most about the Baldur's Gate series was importing my character, but if Baldur's Gate 2 had used D&D3e I wouldn't have. Feels the same here.

 

*chuckle*

 

you have no idea how much we would pay for a bg2 or iwd enhanced edition which utilized the iwd2 mechanics. that woulda' been a real enhanced edition.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Aramintai]

 

Well, you won't lose anything by not importing, except maybe for some exclusive perk for being a veteran. The game will have a system akin to Tyranny where you'll be able to choose whatever decisions you made in POE1.

 

I lose the experience of importing. One of the things I enjoyed most about the Baldur's Gate series was importing my character, but if Baldur's Gate 2 had used D&D3e I wouldn't have. Feels the same here.

 

So importing stats was more important to you than story decisions? BG1 didn't import story decisions to BG2, but I guess they made a way around it by making some things canon. And I get what you mean, importing 100% same character with all the same attributes, skills and spells and portrait was satisfying. But that was AD&D for you, there was no need to tweak anything. But personally, after Mass Effect series I got used to devs tweaking stats system in every new game, importing story decisions started to feel more important to me.