Backer Beta First Impressions

[Sedrefilos]

 

- Spells as abilities the wizard.

No more flexibility to choose your spells before a difficult fight. No more spell books to found (so sad)...

 

 

 

You can still use new spells you find in Grimoires, and switch Grimoires before a difficult fight to switch up your spells. There's a better Grimoire than the one your wizard starts with near Tikawara, which you should probably pick up before doing the dungeon on a high difficulty.

 

Tbh, without having played the beta myself, havign your wizard pick fewer spells but cast more from grimoires that you can find and collect sounds pretty fun to me. I never switched grimoires in the first game, I just picked up spells and stuck with them because it felt a bit of a chore. This sounds more interesting.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Sedrefilos

[Frusciante]

I have played some more and for now I find it really too difficult to continue playing. Basically, in my opinion, one thing should be addressed as the number one priority: combat speed, combat speed, combat speed!

 

I would say:

- slow down run speed in combat by 30-40% at least.

- bring back slowmotion mode

- see if activation time for some specific spells/abilities and recovery time need to be lowered to give more opportunity to influence what happens on the battlefield, this is especially necessary for casters. It could be though that slowing the combat speed in general down already sufficiently makes casters more viable.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Frusciante

[Boeroer]

I agree. At the moment it feels a bit like the Benny Hill Show. Also enemies are disengaging and repositioning all the time like somebody put some really itching powder into their underpants.

[Nail]

Flickering hud (empower star) freaks me out a lot.

It feels like my eyes emerging from the sockets.

 

Everything seems to be learned anew...

On PotD every starting party member die almost by one shot, except fighter with shield that seems to be very durable - weird.

Wizard has too long casting time.

Still uncertain with weapon mods, are they good to have activated all the time or not (swapping refresh for penetration or more defense)...

[Boeroer]

Activating the modal for maces seems to be a no brainer. Especially when using Carnage.

[Aramintai]

I agree. At the moment it feels a bit like the Benny Hill Show. Also enemies are disengaging and repositioning all the time like somebody put some really itching powder into their underpants.

It's also funny to watch how party members constantly run around from one enemy to other because AI can't seem to properly prioritize enemies.

[Gorionsson]

Pro:

-Game looks great overall.

-And fast loading areas. 

-New dialog portraits work better than expected, It's ok actually.

-Character creation great. (Hair looks bad/buggy sometimes. Missing/misplaced text on some panels).

 

Con:

-New penetration mechanic feels waaaay too strong atm.

-Too much focus on multiclass.

-Combat is a mess. (Same for Poe1 beta, so I'm confident this will be adressed).

-I absolutely hate the new health and injury.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Gorionsson

[Wormerine]

Does the Food system feel like a counterbalance to Rest spam, to you?

There is little benefit of rest spamming. The only benefit of resting is removing injuries and replenishing “empower” points. As you can use one empower points once per combat they last for a while. True injuries are easy to equire but are quite devastating. If someone has two injuries you should consider resting.

[Wormerine]

 

 

- Spells as abilities the wizard.

No more flexibility to choose your spells before a difficult fight. No more spell books to found (so sad)...

 

 

 

You can still use new spells you find in Grimoires, and switch Grimoires before a difficult fight to switch up your spells. There's a better Grimoire than the one your wizard starts with near Tikawara, which you should probably pick up before doing the dungeon on a high difficulty.

Tbh, without having played the beta myself, havign your wizard pick fewer spells but cast more from grimoires that you can find and collect sounds pretty fun to me. I never switched grimoires in the first game, I just picked up spells and stuck with them because it felt a bit of a chore. This sounds more interesting.

Yes, overall I do like the new system. The downside is that spells don’t feel all that impactful, especially when they have long casting time. It might be a case of polish and feedback.

[Boeroer]

Yes, casting times are generally too long. I understand why they expanded casting times - but you have to boost the effect then else it's not worth to cast a spell.

 

I also like the new grimoire "system". Way more exiting to find grimoires now.

[Sedrefilos]

So... does anyone miss the 6th party member? It was huge concern for many but I haven't seen anyone bring it in the discussion.

[Breckmoney]

I've barely noticed having only 5 characters so far honestly, but then I felt that 6 in Pillars 1 usually felt like one too many. Even as someone who pauses a ton and micromanages a bunch there was usually one or two characters who went underutilized in a battle. Now it just feels like I do the same thing but everyone uses all their skills and is more often attacking the correct target since I have one fewer party member to care for.

[Frog Man]

I've barely noticed having only 5 characters so far honestly, but then I felt that 6 in Pillars 1 usually felt like one too many. Even as someone who pauses a ton and micromanages a bunch there was usually one or two characters who went underutilized in a battle. Now it just feels like I do the same thing but everyone uses all their skills and is more often attacking the correct target since I have one fewer party member to care for.

Totally agree! 5 Party members feels perfect for me. Really natural.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I didn't mind it then much, and now five feels like it's always been like this. It seems to be working seamlessly. 

[Lamppost in Winter]

I do miss it a bit when thinking about party comps, but in actual combat doesn't feel bad at all.

[theBalthazar]

Let's go for your expert in balancing systems. : p

 

Pro

 

++System of Rest + endurance without Health. WHY ? I did not like buy campfire 2 by 2. Use Food is an excellente idea.

 

+Fast/Better loading (Subject to view the full game at the *end* of the game. POE1 had longer loading in this situation. Here it is a new save and a beta...) WHY ? Obvious.

 

++Multiclass WHY ? I like build. More possibilities is always nice.

 

+Modals of weapons (even if... I would have prefered Weapon modal + Talent modal, but it is a another debate. More is always better than less fo me) WHY ? Because it is work in game. customize a specific fonction with weapons is a good idea.

 

+Stealth system+Pause when stealth. WHY ? The system is globally better in all points.

 

+Design/Style/Approach of dialog system. WHY ? Work for me. Great job !

 

+Retarget fonction. WHY ? Simple and excellent idea.

 

--------------------------------------

 

Intermediate :

 

+/- Exploration on map WHY ? The -feeling- of exploration is better. It is a fact. Move yourself is a good thing. but... I'm afraid that phase of gameplay become... Boring ? You know : move a thumbail on a map. Yes you take several ressources, but BE CAREFUL... This could be... Boring eventually. Things must happen to brighten up the gameplay.

 

+/- Empower. WHY ? The concept is great for me. I love it. But... it is like drink away in the combat, with a lot of fail. I don't think its is enough "impressive" ? Or if the player have not enough try (number of empower in each battle ?)

 

+/- Subclasses. WHY ? I like the idea of subclasses. There is no "fault". BUT I think personnally, we could have made more... attractive ? For exemple, I read description of three subclasses of the barbarian. "Mouai..." like we said in french. And I take a classic barbarian with no subclass. So... I think it is maybe too much... "particular" ? It is a problem if 90 % of players never take a single subclass because of that.

 

---------------------------------------

 

Con:

 

- New penetration mechanic. WHY ? I dislike the concept of "All or nothing" of this choice. I prefer the system of POE1 (gradual + Simply Subtractive)

 

- Locked Talents. WHY ? In fact, you lock several talents to class : You remove possibilities to players. Single classes are disavantaged. RP speaking, why my barbarian must be a fighter for 15 % damage for two hand handling ? In this situation, I must multiclass for this, for that -simple- combo. Too much constraint for something that does not make sense.

 

- "Miss". WHY ? Feeling to miss too much attacks on difficult battle. (Grazes?...^^...)

 

- No Slow mode WHY ? I don't find the slow mode. If it is a choice, I dislike. In this kind of game, the player must can understand slowy. A move... but slow move. (not pause, it is different).

 

- System a injury. WHY ? Amount too big. 25 % is too much. 20 % ? 15 % ? 15 x 3 = 45 so 55 % of healh remaining + All the malus is WIDELY sufficient...

 

- Absolute nerf of casters. WHY ? Casting time too long + general nerf + Miss often... Strategically speaking, I don't know if my final team will have a mage in this situation... : p 

 

- Single class. WHY ? Snif... Seriously, there is actually absolutly not argument to take a single class. It is perhaps a choice for dev : to put news thing better... but the game is WIDELY in favor of multiclass. Or there is somthing I have not found in the beta. As it stands, I will never take this option. To correct urgently for balancing ?

Edited November 17, 2017 by theBalthazar

[Lamppost in Winter]

 

+/- Empower. WHY ? The concept is great for me. I love it. But... it is like drink away in the combat, with a lot of fail. I don't think its is enough "impressive" ? Or if the player have not enough try (number of empower in each battle ?)

 

 

 

I've more or less come around on Empower mechanically, but thematically it still feels lacking. Like it's a cold, mechanical answer to "We need some active per-rest resource now that everything's per-encounter", rather than something concretely part of the game universe, like a Priest's spells. I'd suggest making a unique per-rest thing for each class, but I could see this being difficult for the devs, running into problems with multiclassing and weirder class builds.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Lamppost in Winter

[Breckmoney]

Empower is a little gamey but I think it has some cool thematic possibilities, too. A wizard putting extra energy into a single powerful make-or-break spell. A fighter, beaten and bruised, finding some inner well of strength to continue the fight. Stuff like that.

[morhilane]

 

I agree. At the moment it feels a bit like the Benny Hill Show. Also enemies are disengaging and repositioning all the time like somebody put some really itching powder into their underpants.

It's also funny to watch how party members constantly run around from one enemy to other because AI can't seem to properly prioritize enemies.

 

I didn't touch the AI settings and I don't have that. Characters move to nearest enemies or the one I tell them and start to attack. Nor do I have enemies disengaging outside sand worm low in health moving away from melee via their version of Evade.

 

My fights are all pretty "static".

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

I'm a little confused by how buffing and debuffing works vs. the original game and what was proposed in earlier streams.

 

I thought the system was going to be "buffs cancel resistances and vice versa", i.e., if you have Distracted you buff with Concentration, if your enemy is Concentrating you debuff with Distraction.

 

But I also see that there's an interlocking set of "resistances" to specific stat area afflictions, which aren't always buffs. For example wood elves just have "resist dexterity afflictions," or Skalds have a phrase that gives "resistance against Resolve and Constitution afflictions" ( but no corresponding buff to resolve and constitution, just a prevent-debuff). 

 

That seems a lot more complicated than the originally described system and a lot less useful too (Nobody's going to take a rare one-per-level power just to remove Concentration buffs from enemies, that's ridiculous). Plus nobody knows off the top of their head WHICH buffs and debuffs buff which stats -- that takes a lot of system mastery time to learn. 

[Nixl]

Pros:

 

1. Faster loading speeds;

 

2. I like the introductory village more than Dyrwood in the PoE1 beta.  Specifically, I like how it presents the dilemma of how to handle outsiders, potential trade, and what course would best suit the tribe's needs.

 

3. The adventure screens are fantastic.  I was thrilled when I got the chance to send my rogue to investigate and have the option to summon a drake or cast a lightning bolt. 

 

4. New skills, such as metaphysics and religion, with plenty of skill checks. 

 

5.  Sublcasses and spell additions for Priest.  I particularly enjoy the idea of summoning divine weapons, and I would love to build a Priest around summoning divine weapons.  

 

6.  I like the longer cast times and the limited spell selections for Priests, but there is a downside I will get into below.  

 

Cons:

1.  The pace of Combat felt too fast, which makes giving feedback on combat harder.  I played on PotD, and I either crushed the encounter or was crushed in what felt like under 30 seconds.  

 

2.  Spells felt weak, especially in light of the longer cast times and limited spell selection.  I actually prefer longer cast times and a more limited spell selections, but at the same time I expected stronger spells in return.  Currently, I do not see that trade off.  

 

Where I am finding this to be a big issue is the value of single class casters.  Currently, I think it makes far more sense to have a multiclass character than a single class caster.  A multiclass character can pop off several spells and rush into melee or cast a heal when needed.  In contrast, with a single class character, you cast several anemic spells and hope you can contribute in melee or ranged combat.  Ultimately, I would not mind pure casters being inflexible or limited, provided the strength of the spells made up for it.  

 

Given the above, I realize I am basing my concerns over spells on a limited level and content range.  From my experience in PoE1, Priests started off weak in PotD, but became incredibly strong in the late game.  

 

3.  I miss the general and cross-class feats introduced in the White March.  Those feats provided much needed variety and options, which are now gone.  As a result, the class trees look incredibly straight forward and simple.  

 

Suggestions:

 

1. I would increase the power level of spells for single class casters.  Keep the long casting times and limited spells, but make it worthwhile to cast.  In my mind, there needs to be more of a reason to be a pure class character, when a multiclass character seemingly has no downsides in terms of power or flexibility.  Granted, scaling "power level" in later levels could fix that, but currently multi class characters seem like the obvious character choice. 

 

2. I would give each class a skill tree for abilities, class feats, and general feats.  Paladins already have divided skill trees for active abilities and passive abilities, and so the system already exists in part.  I believe such a change would be worth the time and cost to include, because the current class system seems incredibly streamlined and limits build variety. 

 

The White March allowed for a variety of cool, fluff, or wacky builds, which the beta currently lacks.  

Edited November 17, 2017 by Nixl

[theBalthazar]

So empower is +1 level of spells actually ?

 

Perhaps add an additionnal level like +2.

 

To feel the massive attack more strongly ?

 

1. I would increase the power level of spells for single class casters.  Keep the long casting times and limited spells, but make it worthwhile to cast.  In my mind, there needs to be more of a reason to be a pure class character, when a multiclass character seemingly has no downsides in terms of power or flexibility.  Granted, scaling "power level" in later levels could fix that, but currently multi class characters seem like the obvious character choice. 

 

 

Perhaps increase the effect.

 

Most people complain about the feel of Empower effect.

 

So stay like actually with multiclass or eventually add +1 level of power of empower effect. and add a +2 or even a +3 level for single class !

Edited November 17, 2017 by theBalthazar

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

re: spells, I think they need to do a comprehensive pass on casting times, effects, and durations.

 

The low level powers need to cast faster especially. Minor Missiles and Whisper of Treason and other basic bread and butter effects need to be things you can get off the ground quickly, otherwise casters are twiddling their thumbs while everyone else fights.

 

I think having SOME long cast powers is a good idea but they should be the higher level / more powerful effects and have correspondingly longer durations. Whisper of Treason is six seconds of cast time for ten seconds of charm, who thinks that's a good trade?

[Breckmoney]

I wonder to what extent, if any, the limited scope of the beta does a disservice to single-class characters. Presumably they have two major advantages over multi-classed characters: they progress more quickly through power levels and they access two additional power levels that you won't see when multiclassed. Obviously we're not able to play around with or even see the latter as those power levels aren't implemented, and there's such little progression available in the beta that it's hard to notice their advantage of faster progression.

[theBalthazar]

Breck > It is true concerning the context of the beta. Indeed. Low level and little evolution of experience.

 

But when we think about it.

 

If the high level spells are like POE1...

 

There is less spells, and the most were useless. MORE, if the delay is big for these spells ! like 12 seconds for a fire storm (exemple)

 

It is truly possible, because more powerful = more charge in a certain point of view.

 

And for empower, there is just less points, but it is not a real problem.

 

Single class looks really, really bad...

Edited November 17, 2017 by theBalthazar