Political Twelve Monkeys

[Katphood]

Kingdom of Saud can't even beat a bunch of camel herders with kalashnikovs. What are they gonna do against Iran

 

Use the weapons that they just recently bought from the U.S. Iran doesn't mind a war though, it would be the perfect chance for their government to purge any sort of opposition.

[BruceVC]

http://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/trump-says-he-believes-putins-election-meddling-denials/855613540

 

This has got to be a new low for Trump? I dont know of  ONE other US president who trusts Russia over there own intelligence agencies? GD, Gfted1 , Shady, Hurl, Gromnir , Red and all other US members this cannot be acceptable    

Edited November 11, 2017 by BruceVC

[Bartimaeus]

The real funny thing was Putin's office announcing that they didn't discuss "election meddling" at all right after Trump said that: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/359893-putin-trump-did-not-bring-up-election-meddling

Edited November 11, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[BruceVC]

The real funny thing was Putin's office announcing that they didn't discuss "election meddling" at all right after Trump said that: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/359893-putin-trump-did-not-bring-up-election-meddling

Barti this article is really funny in how it reveals the blatant inconsistency of the story  ...it made me laugh so much with the irony I am no longer in a irritable mood so thanks 

[Volourn]

"This has got to be a new low for Trump? I dont know of  ONE other US president who trusts Russia over there own intelligence agencies? GD, Gfted1 , Shady, Hurl, Gromnir , Red and all other US members this cannot be acceptable     :shrugz:"

 

I don't blame him. US 'intelliegcne agency' were - through Obama and others - claiming that it was compoletely impossible to hack US elections and that only betrayers and unpatriotic peeps would dare question the sanctity of US presidential elections. Only to after election  accuse Russia of hacking said elections and start investigations. LMAO

[smjjames]

http://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/trump-says-he-believes-putins-election-meddling-denials/855613540

 

This has got to be a new low for Trump? I dont know of ONE other US president who trusts Russia over there own intelligence agencies? GD, Gfted1 , Shady, Hurl, Gromnir , Red and all other US members this cannot be acceptable

There was George W. Bush, I don't think he trusted Russia over his Intel agencies, but he did have that oh-so-famous "I looked into his eyes, saw his soul, and saw that he is a good guy." moment. I'm paraphrasing it somewhat, but it's the same underestimation of Putin that happened with Bush 43 and Obama, and Trump is far more naive than the previous two combined. Heck, I don't think he realizes that all the flattery and praise is just the other countries playing him to their advantage.

 

@volourn: Yeah, the two past administrations aren't innocent either in underestimating Russia. Not to mention falling into the "It's impossible to happen/it'll never happen" trap. Until said unimpregnable/unsinkable/unbreakable thing is shown to not be.

Edited November 11, 2017 by smjjames

[HoonDing]

Comey and Mueller should be locked up.

[smjjames]

Comey and Mueller should be locked up.

Why? I get the sentiment for Comey, who bungled thing up, but Mueller?

[Bartimaeus]

for comedic purposes

[BruceVC]

"This has got to be a new low for Trump? I dont know of  ONE other US president who trusts Russia over there own intelligence agencies? GD, Gfted1 , Shady, Hurl, Gromnir , Red and all other US members this cannot be acceptable     :shrugz:"

 

I don't blame him. US 'intelliegcne agency' were - through Obama and others - claiming that it was compoletely impossible to hack US elections and that only betrayers and unpatriotic peeps would dare question the sanctity of US presidential elections. Only to after election  accuse Russia of hacking said elections and start investigations. LMAO

volo you need to expeditiously and prudently update your understanding of the Russian cyber -espionage campaigns  against the USA  and other countries and developments like interfering in the US election

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/25/senates-investigation-into-alleged-russian-hacking-begins-without-end-in-sight/?utm_term=.2d995d546bec

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2017/06/timeline-russia-investigation/

 

No one is seriously asking  "did Russia interfere in the USA election "....we know they did, the evidence is irrefutable    

 

Of course Trump questions the evidence and so do some of his sycophants .....you could align with them but do you really want people to think you are a Trump-puppet ?   

[smjjames]

His point is more that some people (politicians mainly) weren't taking it as seriously as they should have. Warnings that our election system is vulnerable to cyber-espionage have been going around for some time, except Russia took a different (and probably more predictable) route. There's no evidence that votes were directly tampered with, which is great, but what's evident is that they had some help from a campaign staff full of people who didn't have actual campaign experience and did shady stuff, the fact that Clinton was a terrible candidate, and a whole lot of other factors.

 

Whether Russia actually tipped the scales or not with their meddling attempts, we'll never really know.

[213374U]

Of course the evidence is irrefutable. It's by definition impossible to refute evidence that nobody has actually seen.

[smjjames]

The meddling turned out to be closer to psychological warfare than cyber-warfare anyhow. The irrefutable evidence is that they were trying to, whether they actually had any effect isn't likely to be resolved.

[BruceVC]

His point is more that some people (politicians mainly) weren't taking it as seriously as they should have. Warnings that our election system is vulnerable to cyber-espionage have been going around for some time, except Russia took a different (and probably more predictable) route. There's no evidence that votes were directly tampered with, which is great, but what's evident is that they had some help from a campaign staff full of people who didn't have actual campaign experience and did shady stuff, the fact that Clinton was a terrible candidate, and a whole lot of other factors.

 

Whether Russia actually tipped the scales or not with their meddling attempts, we'll never really know.

I have to recognize your posting style adroitness, you often  make posts that I either agree with or it complements my point.... you improve on my point, impossible most would argue 

Of course the evidence is irrefutable. It's by definition impossible to refute evidence that nobody has actually seen.

You often good with words and its often funny 

 

But its not true there is no evidence but I am not going to post any links because I dont need convincing 

[Volourn]

"The meddling turned out to be closer to psychological warfare than cyber-warfare anyhow. The irrefutable evidence is that they were trying to, whether they actually had any effect isn't likely to be resolved."

 

Kanada, European countries, and a host of others all 'intervered' in the US elections in the same way.

 

It has also been determined that the US intervered in our last Kanadian election as well.

 

*shrug* The so called 'interverence'/'hacking' evidence that they've shared with us is that  Russia used internet memes and opinions to somehow convince everyone to vote for the 'wrong' candidate instead of the Chosen One time that the EU and others wanted. That is what the 'hacking' seems to amount to.

 

And, oh yeah,  DNC documents were released. :rollseyes: 

[smjjames]

By same way, you mean with statements like 'I like/don't like this person' and not trying to hide where it's coming from? That's not the same as doing it with malevolent intent and hiding the source of the messaging.

 

And yes, I know we've done meddling in other countries elections (South America mainly), which is why it was hypocritical when we reacted as we did given that we got a taste of our own medicine.

 

Though yeah, it's very unlikely that Russian meddling actually was the main reason Clinton lost, the Russians were taking advantage of a host of things that already existed for some time.

Edited November 11, 2017 by smjjames

[BruceVC]

"The meddling turned out to be closer to psychological warfare than cyber-warfare anyhow. The irrefutable evidence is that they were trying to, whether they actually had any effect isn't likely to be resolved."

 

Kanada, European countries, and a host of others all 'intervered' in the US elections in the same way.

 

It has also been determined that the US intervered in our last Kanadian election as well.

 

*shrug* The so called 'interverence'/'hacking' evidence that they've shared with us is that  Russia used internet memes and opinions to somehow convince everyone to vote for the 'wrong' candidate instead of the Chosen One time that the EU and others wanted. That is what the 'hacking' seems to amount to.

 

And, oh yeah,  DNC documents were released. :rollseyes: 

 

By same way, you mean with statements like 'I like/don't like this person' and not trying to hide where it's coming from? That's not the same as doing it with malevolent intent and hiding the source of the messaging.

 

And yes, I know we've done meddling in other countries elections (South America mainly), which is why it was hypocritical when we reacted as we did given that we got a taste of our own medicine.

 

Though yeah, it's very unlikely that Russian meddling actually was the main reason Clinton lost, the Russians were taking advantage of a host of things that already existed for some time.

 

 Guys Western countries like the USA generally only " hack or interfere " in countries that are not Democracies or are dictatorships....this is not the same as interfering in the elections of the USA which is an established Democracy

 

What  happened in the Canadian election should not be seen as interfering anymore than you see a father discipline  a child as abuse..its well meaning and not malicious

 

Canada would have investigated properly if there was real damage done or criminal intent 

 

Also most people outside of  North America consider Canada part of the USA, I would let the USA annex me if I was Canada ?

[smjjames]

What thing that happened in the Canadian election are you talking about? I don't pay attention to Canadian politics, so, I really don't know what volourn is referring to.

 

Also, the 'father disciplining a child' bit would work better if it was the French or British (depending on who you think is the 'father' of the nation), Canada and the US would be siblings.

 

I've only heard of the 'Canada is part of the US' thing as a joke than anything serious.

Edited November 11, 2017 by smjjames

[HoonDing]

If Trudeau makes a pass at Ivanka one more time there'll be boots on ground next day

 

[Volourn]

"Guys Western countries like the USA generally only " hack or interfere " in countries that are not Democracies or are dictatorships....this is not the same as interfering in the elections of the USA which is an established Democracy

 

What  happened in the Canadian election should not be seen as interfering anymore than you see a father discipline  a child as abuse..its well meaning and not malicious"

 

L0L

 

 

"Canada would have investigated properly if there was real damage done or criminal intent "

 

They did investigate. 'Legalness' is up for debate. Plus,. the 'right' person won so there is no motivation to pursue it.

 

 

 

"What thing that happened in the Canadian election are you talking about? I don't pay attention to Canadian politics, so, I really don't know what volourn is referring to."

 

A lot of money changing hands through 'donations' and other not so subtle ways. As a country we have strived to limit campaign donations even by Kanadian citizens but here we found out more than a few Amerikan bigwigs (including people with connections to the DNC or Obama) were donating money to the Trudeau campaign amongst other stuff. if that isn't intervering than what is? There was muted news about it but not too surprisjng since the media loves Trudeau.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Volourn

[injurai]

If only some country would interfere with that style of quoting.

[smjjames]

Then make campaign donations by foreigners illegal if you feel that it's a problem.

 

If only some country would interfere with that style of quoting.

 

Lol. Though quoting can be a hassle sometimes.

Edited November 11, 2017 by smjjames

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, quoting and linebreaks are a disaster here, and the BBCode Mode doesn't really make things any easier.

[Blodhemn]

Guys Western countries like the USA generally only " hack or interfere " in countries that are not Democracies or are dictatorships....this is not the same as interfering in the elections of the USA which is an established Democracy

 

What  happened in the Canadian election should not be seen as interfering anymore than you see a father discipline  a child as abuse..its well meaning and not malicious

 

Canada would have investigated properly if there was real damage done or criminal intent 

 

Also most people outside of  North America consider Canada part of the USA, I would let the USA annex me if I was Canada ?

[Bartimaeus]

Actually, yeah, re-reading all of that:

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by Bartimaeus