Political Twelve Monkeys

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

This stuff makes me miss WoD.

Did the massive Stalinist network finally get to him?

I absolutely love these exchanges.

Step 1: Make a strawman where post-million+ properties are the average old grandpa's house.

Step 2: Accuse others of making a strawman where the average old grandpa's house is a post-million+ property.

Step 3: ???

Step 4: Profit

Quoting someone is a strawman.

[213374U]

Y'all are just jelly!

[Malcador]

 

Anyway,

 

Top US general says he would resist illegal nuclear strike order from Donald Trump

 

It would be interesting if someone went into detail and laid out exactly what makes a nuclear strike legal. And even if it's not, I'm thinking that any official openly refusing an order would be kissing their career goodbye.

This guy should be fired immediately for stupidity of the highest order.

Why? It is part of his job, in theory, to resist illegal orders. Probably harder to palate, a first strike to kill millions than other illegal stuff that gets done like civilian deaths in operations, etc.

 

The President is still bound by laws, he isn't an Emperor.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Malcador

[Hurlshort]

[Malcador]

Don't insult the Big E that way   That's my wallpaper incidentally, best piece of 40k art I've seen

[redneckdevil]

Lmfao

[majestic]

 

 

Stop crying over the rich. They are increasing their wealth at a tremendous clip right now while the average tax payer is struggling to make any gains.

So a family with a house and a car is top 1%? You have no idea, as always, what you talk about.

Another example of why US education is tanking.

 

 

What in the world are you talking about? We were discussing million dollar inheritances.

 

3% of homes in the US are worth a million dollars.

 

https://www.trulia.com/blog/trends/million-dollar-homes-2016/

 

You flipped out on Ben because he wanted to tax inheritance properties worth over a million dollars. 

 

This stuff makes me miss WoD.

 

Looking at average or median incomes per country also puts things into perspective. When it takes updwards of 20 years for half of the population to even earn a million dollars before tax the idea that a million dollar exempted inheritance tax hurts anyone suddenly becomes ludicrous.

 

Not that I would agree with a 85% tax rate. Inheritance should be treated like any other income and taxed accordingly. Because that's what it is. Income. The topic is just emotionally charged and almost always boils down to "the government wants to tap poor grandma's life savings" or "the government wants to make poor grandpa's family homeless" as if such edge cases were anything but strawmen. *shrug*

Edited November 19, 2017 by majestic

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Don't insult the Big E that way   That's my wallpaper incidentally, best piece of 40k art I've seen

 

Yeah this meme annoys me to no end, because while canonically the Emperor is by all accounts a horrible father and someone who doesn't really get people in general, he's not an incoherent babbling manchild.

[Hurlshort]

 

 

 

Not that I would agree with a 85% tax rate. 

 

Don't tell Sharpie, but I thought that was a pretty ridiculous number as well. ;-)

[Ben No.3]

Why though? I find large sums of inheritance very difficult if not impossible to justify. Anyone up for inheriting a large amount of money (over a million in this case) will have in all likelihood had access to a very high level of education and societal connectivity, giving him much of a head start and, realistically, practically guaranteeing him at leat a comfortable life. Is it really that far of a shot to then propose to use the remaining wealth to give other, less lucky people access to at least some level of good education?

The proposed inheritance model would benefit most members of society, while at the same time generating enormous amounts of money for the state to use. And it is not like I am taking away everything from the rich kids... if your parents inherent you 11 million, you still get 2.5 million which is a hell of a lot of money. And if it causes rich people to just go on huge shopping sprees in their late years, that’s not bad either - rather have the cash fluctuating through the markets than sitting around (at least that is how I have understood this matter in regards to the production of wealth in capitalism, do correct me if I’m wrong).

 

Essentially I guess my argument boils down to whoever is affected by the proposed tax is in no situation where he’d require this amount of money, while it is desperately needed elsewhere. And it’s not exactly like I’m leaving him moneyless either.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Ben No.3

[HoonDing]

i've seen so many iterations of that WH40k painting

 

[Volourn]

Look at this. people are still defending the theft of other people's money.  Why at epeople pro Nazi?

 

 

I bet you guys would feel the gov't would be justified to mass murder thes epeople if they refused to give up the money right? I mean,   it is acceptable for the gov't to steal. EVIL.

[Ben No.3]

Look at this. people are still defending the theft of other people's money. Why at epeople pro Nazi?

 

 

I bet you guys would feel the gov't would be justified to mass murder thes epeople if they refused to give up the money right? I mean, it is acceptable for the gov't to steal. EVIL.

stealing implies ownership

[Guard Dog]

 

Look at this. people are still defending the theft of other people's money. Why at epeople pro Nazi?

 

 

I bet you guys would feel the gov't would be justified to mass murder thes epeople if they refused to give up the money right? I mean, it is acceptable for the gov't to steal. EVIL.

stealing implies ownership

 

So we don't own what we earn? Not exactly an incentive to work hard is it? Why be an engineer and deal with that stress when I can just pick apples. After all if the pay is the same why work harder?

[Volourn]

"stealing implies ownership"

 

L0L So you believe in slavery?

 

K. Then.    

[HoonDing]

imagine if your boss had right of the first night

[Blodhemn]

 

 

 

"I find it funny that they'd tell a guy who wound up on the street because he lost his job to pull himself up by his bootstraps but millionaires should be coddled or else they'll end up homeless."

 

L0L

 

Because stating that someone shouldn't have the gov't steal 85% of their money is somehow 'coddling'. LMAO

 

 

And, what's this about the guy on the streets/ You are making stuff up again.

 

Only Nazi thieves belief it is okay for the gov't to steal 85% of someone's money. L0L

a dead persons money volo. They’re dead. They don’t care.

 

What makes your existence more important? You'll be joining soon enough. Maybe they "suffered" more in earning those millions than you ever will.

 

Never ceases to amaze how righteous people become when it comes to someone else's money.

 

My existence would be more important simply because I have one while they don’t anymore. Again, they’re dead.

 

It's a very self centered point of view which pretty much kills the altruistic nature of it from the start, never mind the logistics and morality.

[Hurlshort]

So we don't own what we earn? Not exactly an incentive to work hard is it? Why be an engineer and deal with that stress when I can just pick apples. After all if the pay is the same why work harder?

 

 

 

We were talking about inheritances, which aren't really earned in a traditional sense. Although, I suppose I may have worked my way out of my own inheritance by not getting along with my parents. 

 

I don't really have a problem with the top 3% of estates being taxed on inheritances. I think it is actually a pretty conservative idea that you will not be taxed on the first million of inheritance. That is going to allow the vast majority of people to avoid taxes of inheritances. I think 85% after that million is an absurdly high number, but I'd rather start with the concept that 97% of estates will not be taxed and work on that 3% separately.  

 

edit: The ownership we are talking about is the estate of a deceased person. What rights do kin have that estate? We assume that property should be passed down, but where do we draw the line? Should my kids have access to my pension? I do have life insurance options, but they typically have certain costs involved.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Hurlshot

[redneckdevil]

The problem is that what's the point of inheritance then if not to leave behind something that helps benefit ur next generation IF instead it's going into politicians funds and bigger government?

U don't actually think this will benefit the other people around us when we still allow tax money to fund businesses, private parties, golf, vacations, etc.

With inheritance u can chose who gets what u leave behind, with this it's instead MAINLY going to rich politicians and hopefully some will fall off onto other citizens but most likely no one who that person knew would benefit.

Edited November 20, 2017 by redneckdevil

[213374U]

The problem is that what's the point of inheritance then if not to leave behind something that helps benefit ur next generation IF instead it's going into politicians funds and bigger government?

 

So the complaint is that corrupted crooks in government will pocket the money? I can understand the concern.

 

Would you be more open to tax exemptions on inheritance in the case of donations to non-profits? Say... starting at 85% of the estate's worth beyond the first million.

[Darkpriest]

Late to the fun, but an inheritance of 1mil is nothing spectacular... I mean, average middle class family has that much of net worth... couple cars, 3-4 bedroom (parents and 2-3 kids) house made of decent materials instead of wicker and cheapest wood, with some garden - some savings and other assets

 

Now obviously if you'd like to split between each kid, that might not exceed 1mil per head, but still, it might not be that uncommon. A ****ty shack in Vancouver in Canada costs 500k.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Darkpriest

[Ben No.3]

 

 

Look at this. people are still defending the theft of other people's money. Why at epeople pro Nazi?

 

 

I bet you guys would feel the gov't would be justified to mass murder thes epeople if they refused to give up the money right? I mean, it is acceptable for the gov't to steal. EVIL.

stealing implies ownership

So we don't own what we earn? Not exactly an incentive to work hard is it? Why be an engineer and deal with that stress when I can just pick apples. After all if the pay is the same why work harder?

A dead! person doesn’t own anything

[Ben No.3]

Capitalist: How dare you think you’re entitled to the wealth someone else produced?

 

Also capitalist: How dare you think kids aren’t entitled to what their parents produced?

[Gfted1]

Not that I would agree with a 85% tax rate. Inheritance should be treated like any other income and taxed accordingly. Because that's what it is. Income.

That "income" has already been taxed on the original earner. Now it should be taxed again because it was given to another? If I spot you a $20 for lunch, should you be taxed on it? Its "income" after all.

[Guard Dog]

 

So we don't own what we earn? Not exactly an incentive to work hard is it? Why be an engineer and deal with that stress when I can just pick apples. After all if the pay is the same why work harder?

 

 

 

We were talking about inheritances, which aren't really earned in a traditional sense. Although, I suppose I may have worked my way out of my own inheritance by not getting along with my parents. 

 

I don't really have a problem with the top 3% of estates being taxed on inheritances. I think it is actually a pretty conservative idea that you will not be taxed on the first million of inheritance. That is going to allow the vast majority of people to avoid taxes of inheritances. I think 85% after that million is an absurdly high number, but I'd rather start with the concept that 97% of estates will not be taxed and work on that 3% separately.  

 

edit: The ownership we are talking about is the estate of a deceased person. What rights do kin have that estate? We assume that property should be passed down, but where do we draw the line? Should my kids have access to my pension? I do have life insurance options, but they typically have certain costs involved.

 

Doh! Sorry Ben. Here I go jumping into the middle of a conversation without reading what came before!