Narrator?

[NoxNoctum]

Maybe this is a bad idea, but what do people think of the game having a narrator during the descriptive bits of dialogue? In the first game I find it pretty jarring when there is dialogue read aloud that skips the non-dialogue portions. Having a narrator would bypass that.

 

I'm listening to a several fantasy audiobooks ATM and quite enjoy the added flair that a narrator adds to the experience.  Anyways, just a thought. Like most here I'd rather the budget be focused on things other than voice acting in general. 

[Sedrefilos]

I already don't like discription in dialogue so a narrator could only worsen (and cheesify) it, imho.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Sedrefilos

[Lord_Mord]

I'd like it.

[JerekKruger]

If Obsidian are going to include the descriptive text in dialogue as they did in Pillars (which I liked) then I'd prefer it if there was a narrator reading it out when the dialogue is voice acted. I tend to read along with voice acted dialogue, and I too found it jarring when it jumps past big chunks of descriptive text.

[Wormerine]

Maybe this is a bad idea, but what do people think of the game having a narrator during the descriptive bits of dialogue? In the first game I find it pretty jarring when there is dialogue read aloud that skips the non-dialogue portions. Having a narrator would bypass that.

 

I'm listening to a several fantasy audiobooks ATM and quite enjoy the added flair that a narrator adds to the experience.  Anyways, just a thought. Like most here I'd rather the budget be focused on things other than voice acting in general.

 

Not something I need as not everything is voiceacted. I feel like Voiceacting was mostly used in Pillars to give characters personality and better represent important story bits. Discriptions don't really do that.

 

I do know, the issue you had and it was tied to the way text was written, not that the narration wasn't voice acted. In base PoE they used voiced characters and non voiced narration at the same time. It was odd as what you heard wasn't what you read. Josh mentioned that this issue was pointed out by Avallone but it was way to close to release to rewrite the game. Notice that this issue didn't appear in White March. It's confirmed that they won't mix those two together in PoE2 either. Should be fine.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

Maybe this is a bad idea, but what do people think of the game having a narrator during the descriptive bits of dialogue? In the first game I find it pretty jarring when there is dialogue read aloud that skips the non-dialogue portions. Having a narrator would bypass that.

 

I'm listening to a several fantasy audiobooks ATM and quite enjoy the added flair that a narrator adds to the experience.  Anyways, just a thought. Like most here I'd rather the budget be focused on things other than voice acting in general.

Not something I need as not everything is voiceacted. I feel like Voiceacting was mostly used in Pillars to give characters personality and better represent important story bits. Discriptions don't really do that.

 

I do know, the issue you had and it was tied to the way text was written, not that the narration wasn't voice acted. In base PoE they used voiced characters and non voiced narration at the same time. It was odd as what you heard wasn't what you read. Josh mentioned that this issue was pointed out by Avallone but it was way to close to release to rewrite the game. Notice that this issue didn't appear in White March. It's confirmed that they won't mix those two together in PoE2 either. Should be fine.

 

Yep, as Wormerine has said Obsidian both became aware of the issue and the best way to get around it, just too late to do anything about it for the base game.

[Sedrefilos]

Btw, Larian decided to go full voice-over for D:OS 2, despite they said it was out of the question at start and not even a stretch goal. I'd like if Obs did the same, given they're much bigger. And leave the narrator out

[Messier-31]

I like the descriptive text at the end of the dialogue, after the NPC stops talking.

 

I don't like the descriptoive text in the middle of the dialogue, between sentences.

 

I wouldn't like a narrator in either way.

[Night Stalker]

I think Sawyer has said that they were trying to avoid the [description][voice over][description][voice over] pattern and its relatives.

[smjjames]

Personally, I like the descriptive text, they should keep doing that.

[Starwars]

Love the descriptive text, would definitely not like a narrator. I think I'm one of the few who would like *less* voiceacting overall, and not more.

 

But I do hope and think that they've gotten better at trying to not write descriptive text and voiceacted dialogue in the same dialogue node.

[smjjames]

It can be used to dramatic effect in some interactions like when you confront the guy laying claim to Caed Nua in the Defiance Bay city hall. I'm sure there are places where it would be better to have the descriptive text separate from the dialogue though.

[algroth]

It's been mentioned in a Q&A with Josh Sawyer that they too are not entirely convinced with the way the voiceover would ignore the descriptions when they interjected the written dialogue, but I think this is more due to the lack of pause between one bit of dialogue and the next. I think they said they'd try leaving a longer pause between both. Actually what I think would be pretty interesting would be for the descriptive content to be occasionally paired with some foleys in the style of scripted interactions: for example, the man talking is sitting down, and while talking he gets up and paces around the room; we read this, but hear the chair creaking and the footsteps on the floor (as well as seeing his character walk around the room, now that dialogues no longer pause the game). Just an idea, of course.

[Sedrefilos]

The descriptive text is particularily annoying in the middle of the sentence (as Messier-31 mentioned) enspecially when it is not needed. As when it describes stuff you already see.

 

Like:

"Howdy stranger!" a green hooded figure waves at you. "How's it going?".
Yeah, I can probably see the figure wears a green hood - no need to write it down too. Too excessive.

Or: Three well armed men enter the room... Yeah I can see they are three and they just entered.

Pillars is full of these examples. Writers though they were writing a book or something.

 

A descriptive text should be there only to inform you of things you can't see. Although I could do without it altogether

[rjshae]

I think narrators are limiting. You're experiencing the world through somebody else's eyes, rather than creating your own story. It makes the plot feel constrained.

[Wormerine]

The descriptive text is particularily annoying in the middle of the sentence (as Messier-31 mentioned) enspecially when it is not needed. As when it describes stuff you already see.

 

Like:

"Howdy stranger!" a green hooded figure waves at you. "How's it going?".

Yeah, I can probably see the figure wears a green hood - no need to write it down too. Too excessive.

Or: Three well armed men enter the room... Yeah I can see they are three and they just entered.

Pillars is full of these examples. Writers though they were writing a book or something.

 

A descriptive text should be there only to inform you of things you can't see. Although I could do without it altogether

It is has been stated many times that PoE was to wordy. I remember reading interview with the lead writer on PoE and he addmitted they had little time to revisit what they have written. Therefore the writing while good, isn't nearly as tight as it could have been. Hopefully, PoE2 will get more time and polish.

 

As far as the discription goes I much prefer it being there. But it might be because I do like reading. I always treated those games very much like an immersive book.

[Wormerine]

I think narrators are limiting. You're experiencing the world through somebody else's eyes, rather than creating your own story. It makes the plot feel constrained.

Well, game design is limiting. "Freedom" in a game is limited, as what you do should get a reaction, which means it has to be preplanned by a designer in the first place. Disctiptions expand Obsidian ability to tell stories without expanding budget so I will take it. Whatever freedom you have will always be within what designers have imagined. 

 

[injurai]

 

The descriptive text is particularily annoying in the middle of the sentence (as Messier-31 mentioned) enspecially when it is not needed. As when it describes stuff you already see.

 

Like:

"Howdy stranger!" a green hooded figure waves at you. "How's it going?".

Yeah, I can probably see the figure wears a green hood - no need to write it down too. Too excessive.

Or: Three well armed men enter the room... Yeah I can see they are three and they just entered.

Pillars is full of these examples. Writers though they were writing a book or something.

 

A descriptive text should be there only to inform you of things you can't see. Although I could do without it altogether

It is has been stated many times that PoE was to wordy. I remember reading interview with the lead writer on PoE and he addmitted they had little time to revisit what they have written. Therefore the writing while good, isn't nearly as tight as it could have been. Hopefully, PoE2 will get more time and polish.

 

As far as the discription goes I much prefer it being there. But it might be because I do like reading. I always treated those games very much like an immersive book.

 

 

I actually didn't mind that PoE was wordy. I realize I speak for myself, but bring it on!

 

I'd hope it goes without saying that polish is always welcome too.

[algroth]

Whatever issues I had with the text was actually much more on the side of character exposition than wordy narration, personally. I do feel that certain characters like Iovara, Wymund and Thaos were overly expositional about their reveals or 'evil schemes' in the case of the latter two. Also I felt a lot of Grieving Mother's remarks while travelling with her felt very redundant and actually lessened the impact of some of the details and events. I recall us learning about how the Hollowborn were often referred to as buoys because so many were found floating dead in the water, a thought which would be much more disturbing and affecting would the Mother not go "OH MY GOD THAT IS HORRIBLE!!" right at it. Moments like these were more annoying to me than any individual bit of descriptive text that I can recall.

Edited August 28, 2017 by algroth

[rjshae]

 

I think narrators are limiting. You're experiencing the world through somebody else's eyes, rather than creating your own story. It makes the plot feel constrained.

Well, game design is limiting. "Freedom" in a game is limited, as what you do should get a reaction, which means it has to be preplanned by a designer in the first place. Disctiptions expand Obsidian ability to tell stories without expanding budget so I will take it. Whatever freedom you have will always be within what designers have imagined. 

 

 

Since we're already constrained, we should be made to feel even more constrained?     

[Wormerine]

 

 

I think narrators are limiting. You're experiencing the world through somebody else's eyes, rather than creating your own story. It makes the plot feel constrained.

 

Well, game design is limiting. "Freedom" in a game is limited, as what you do should get a reaction, which means it has to be preplanned by a designer in the first place. Disctiptions expand Obsidian ability to tell stories without expanding budget so I will take it. Whatever freedom you have will always be within what designers have imagined.

 

 

Since we're already constrained, we should be made to feel even more constrained?     

If it serves the story then yes. I want it to be as limiting as it needs to be. You might be looking for something else in gaming than I do of course. I never found "freedom" of Elder Scrolls engaging, as yes, you can do anything, at any point you want but none of that matters. You can go straight and climb this mountain, but will anything interesting be there, or will anyone respond to it? Not really.

 

Going against established rules of freedom is what annoys me a lot. In Dishonored you have to walk into a trap, even though you see it coming miles away, even though it goes against the freedom the game offered you thus far (and the knowledge you and Corvo have seem to differ). However, you could say something similar happens in Thief: The Dark Project but I as the player was never in charge of choices Garret made and the choice he made fit with his character.

 

I can't say I ever found discriptions to be limiting (let's drop the "narrator" as it is not appropriate outside scripted interactions, and at this point "game master" would be more appropriate, I think) but they added details or build atmosphere which wouldn't be possible to convey through in game means. But I also tend to create conventional characters, so if someone goes for something more... unusual (like super dumb barbarian or sociopath) it might be possible that what game tells you what your character notices it's not what he should notice.

[rjshae]

 

 

 

I think narrators are limiting. You're experiencing the world through somebody else's eyes, rather than creating your own story. It makes the plot feel constrained.

Well, game design is limiting. "Freedom" in a game is limited, as what you do should get a reaction, which means it has to be preplanned by a designer in the first place. Disctiptions expand Obsidian ability to tell stories without expanding budget so I will take it. Whatever freedom you have will always be within what designers have imagined.

 

 

Since we're already constrained, we should be made to feel even more constrained?     

If it serves the story then yes. I want it to be as limiting as it needs to be. You might be looking for something else in gaming than I do of course. I never found "freedom" of Elder Scrolls engaging, as yes, you can do anything, at any point you want but none of that matters. You can go straight and climb this mountain, but will anything interesting be there, or will anyone respond to it? Not really.

 

Going against established rules of freedom is what annoys me a lot. In Dishonored you have to walk into a trap, even though you see it coming miles away, even though it goes against the freedom the game offered you thus far (and the knowledge you and Corvo have seem to differ). However, you could say something similar happens in Thief: The Dark Project but I as the player was never in charge of choices Garret made and the choice he made fit with his character.

 

I can't say I ever found discriptions to be limiting (let's drop the "narrator" as it is not appropriate outside scripted interactions, and at this point "game master" would be more appropriate, I think) but they added details or build atmosphere which wouldn't be possible to convey through in game means. But I also tend to create conventional characters, so if someone goes for something more... unusual (like super dumb barbarian or sociopath) it might be possible that what game tells you what your character notices it's not what he should notice.

 

Paragraph 1: This would eliminate a sense of exploration, which I greatly enjoy. If you don't want to explore the mountain then don't explore the mountain. Stick to the story, and let the rest of us enjoy the scenery and adventure.

 

Paragraph 2: That just sounds like poor writing.

 

Paragraph 3: There's an expression in writing: show, don't tell. To me it means don't use exposition when exploration and experience will serve the same end. Sometimes you have to resort to written or narrated descriptions, but they aren't always the best choice.

[Wormerine]

 

 

 

 

I think narrators are limiting. You're experiencing the world through somebody else's eyes, rather than creating your own story. It makes the plot feel constrained.

 

Well, game design is limiting. "Freedom" in a game is limited, as what you do should get a reaction, which means it has to be preplanned by a designer in the first place. Disctiptions expand Obsidian ability to tell stories without expanding budget so I will take it. Whatever freedom you have will always be within what designers have imagined.

 

 

Since we're already constrained, we should be made to feel even more constrained?     

If it serves the story then yes. I want it to be as limiting as it needs to be. You might be looking for something else in gaming than I do of course. I never found "freedom" of Elder Scrolls engaging, as yes, you can do anything, at any point you want but none of that matters. You can go straight and climb this mountain, but will anything interesting be there, or will anyone respond to it? Not really.

Going against established rules of freedom is what annoys me a lot. In Dishonored you have to walk into a trap, even though you see it coming miles away, even though it goes against the freedom the game offered you thus far (and the knowledge you and Corvo have seem to differ). However, you could say something similar happens in Thief: The Dark Project but I as the player was never in charge of choices Garret made and the choice he made fit with his character.

I can't say I ever found discriptions to be limiting (let's drop the "narrator" as it is not appropriate outside scripted interactions, and at this point "game master" would be more appropriate, I think) but they added details or build atmosphere which wouldn't be possible to convey through in game means. But I also tend to create conventional characters, so if someone goes for something more... unusual (like super dumb barbarian or sociopath) it might be possible that what game tells you what your character notices it's not what he should notice.

 

Paragraph 1: This would eliminate a sense of exploration, which I greatly enjoy. If you don't want to explore the mountain then don't explore the mountain. Stick to the story, and let the rest of us enjoy the scenery and adventure.

 

Paragraph 2: That just sounds like poor writing.

 

Paragraph 3: There's an expression in writing: show, don't tell. To me it means don't use exposition when exploration and experience will serve the same end. Sometimes you have to resort to written or narrated descriptions, but they aren't always the best choice.

Yes.

 

Yes.

 

Yes.

 

...

 

I am confused. Are we arguing against putting discriptions in PoE or just criticising writing? Because storytelling in PoE was far from perfect.

[smjjames]

Just criticising the writing I guess wormerine.

 

Regarding the descriptions, you have to find a balance between the voiceovered dialogue and the placement of the descriptions. As I noted before, there are definetly places where it can be used side by side to dramatic effect.

 

That said, it's good that the devs and the writers are looking to improve their writing techniques and how they tell the story.

 

As for the narrator stuff, that would work better for the CYOAs.

Edited August 29, 2017 by smjjames