Andromeda - The End...

[213374U]

 

Anyone who may be inclined to defend EA here haven't been keeping up with their practices regarding MP monetisation, btw.

 

I'd see MP monetisation as a separate issue. I also fundamentally don't care about it, since I don't play it.

 

But by and large I wouldn't defend anyone's MP policies, I was even mildly annoyed by something as trivial as Larian having the MP rps minigame in SP DivinityOS, and stuff like the 'forced' MP in ME3 to get war score was obnoxious- but it was only 'forced' since I never did it. In Andromeda's case I'd need a fair bit of convincing that MP or EA's policy towards it was the reason the game failed, and BiowareM knew the requirement for it before development started. It's also, in the end, the player's collective fault that such focuses on MP happen, if nobody bought premier packs and loot boxes and game currency and trivial skins etc etc etc then the companies would not do them. Can't generally say the same for a poor SP game though there are examples (Fallout 4).

 

The reason? Probably not. A reason? You bet.

 

Andromeda MP managed to both expand the scope of microtransactions and deliver less value for them. ME3 had several unplanned MP DLCs that were the result of the success of the model -- they got it "just right", and folks were willing to shell out some cash every time a new content patch dropped to get some new stuff. The DLCs were absolutely fantastic.

 

In Andromeda, there rarely was genuinely new stuff to be had, mostly just reskins or trash repurposed from SP, and no DLC either: they went with a drip-feed model that spread the delivery of what little they had produced over months. Not to mention the initial move away from biower points to Andromeda points, just in case you had some left over from purchasing stuff in ME3 and DA. And as their final parting gift they decided to crank loot pool bloat up to 11 by adding a ton of minute +% garbage that doesn't expand on mechanics and appears designed solely to slow manifest progression to a crawl, while creating the illusion of "content".

 

I wouldn't say it's a separate issue because many MPers are also SPers and vice versa. The MP adds staying power to the game as a whole and provides additional revenue, which may justify and help towards development of SP content. By all accounts, this is what happened with ME3. However, unlike in 2012-13, consensus on Reddit and the BSN is that biowEA can get bent with their approach to monetization in this game.

 

It is perhaps true that, with a publicly traded company, the success of a specific microtransactions model entails an expansion of said model in future titles. What I'm not so sure is that naked greed must be the design cornerstone for the whole thing. We'll never know for sure because companies don't release that kind of data, but if we accept that players encouraged it with ME3, then it also holds true that players have discouraged it this time around. I'd sooner expect EA to bury biower than turn the ship around, though.

Edited August 22, 2017 by 213374U

[Zoraptor]

Most of that sounds like the problems with SP, just applied to MP. I should also clarify that it isn't so much SP and MP that I see as separate issues (generally they are too interconnected to be separate) but I see the MP as being separate from the root cause of Andromeda's problems- bad organisation and bad implementation on the management level. That bleeds down to both SP and MP.

 

 

 

Andromeda MP managed to both expand the scope of microtransactions and deliver less value for them. ME3 had several unplanned MP DLCs that were the result of the success of the model -- they got it "just right", and folks were willing to shell out some cash every time a new content patch dropped to get some new stuff. The DLCs were absolutely fantastic.

 

 

That is the fundamental conflict with the MP model it a nutshell- companies are always going to try and milk the player for more money with less effort. In this case I find it more likely that it wasn't deliberate EA policy and was just more incompetence from the studio since that level of micromanagement doesn't seem to have been applied to anything else Andromeda wise.

[ktchong]

And nothing of value was lost.

Edited August 24, 2017 by ktchong

[Raithe]

Gamespot - EA boss says ME Andromeda got too much criticism, and Franchise could return

 

 

The Mass Effect series is one of EA's biggest and best-known series. Its latest version, Andromeda, launched in March and was not as well-received as the previous games. Now, EA boss Patrick Soderlund has come forward to say that Andromeda might have received more criticism than it deserved. He also says he believes Mass Effect series can come back someday, but only if it feels "relevant" and "fresh."

 

"I usually don't do this, but this is one of those places where I feel like the game got criticised a little bit more than it deserved," Soderlund told GameReactor. "I think the game is actually a great game. Yes, we have to acknowledge the fact that there were some things that maybe we could have done better, absolutely, but as a whole, if you go in and you buy the game today with everything that's in it today, I believe that that's a game worth buying, personally."

 

Indeed, BioWare improved Andromeda after release with patches that addressed its animations, among other things, and added new content. Multiplayer updates for the game will continue, but BioWare is finished with single-player content. Unlike Mass Effect 1-3, there will be no single-player expansions for Andromeda.

Additionally, Andromeda's developer, BioWare Montreal, has merged with EA's Motive Studios. Despite all of this, and the report that the Mass Effect series is now on "hiatus," Soderlund said he believes the Mass Effect franchise can return.

 

"For Mass Effect as a franchise, that has such a big fanbase, and you know I've seen people saying 'Oh, EA's not making another Mass Effect'. I see no reason why we shouldn't come back to Mass Effect," he said. "Why not? It's a spectacular universe, it's a loved [series], it has a big fanbase, and it's a game that has done a lot for EA and for BioWare."

"What we need to be careful though of is, whenever we bring Mass Effect back again, we have to make sure that we bring it back in a really [relevant] way, and in a fresh, exciting place," he added. "That's my job, and that's Casey's [Hudson] job, and BioWare and the Mass Effect team's job, to figure out what that looks like, and that we don't know yet, but we will."

Hudson returned to BioWare earlier this year to lead the team at BioWare Edmonton. That studio is working on Anthem, BioWare's new IP that Hudson believes "will redefine interactive entertainment."

 

In addition to whatever ideas BioWare might be thinking about for Mass Effect video games, a movie based on the sci-fi series is in the works.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Raithe

[Keyrock]

^ Boss of company says their product is great and you should buy it. In other news, scientists have discovered that water is indeed wet. Now, here's a chimpanzee waterskiing.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Keyrock

[SonicMage117]

In case you didn't get the memo..

 

[SonicMage117]

And EA claims it's our fault... the cancellation is the fault of rpg fans.

 

[Mamoulian War]

Yup, blaming others for peoples own faults is in our DNA. I would be surprised, if someone in EA would ever acknowledged their fault.

[Hawke64]

And EA claims it's our fault... the cancellation is the fault of rpg fans.

Some minor bugs were met with a hate campaign, which was going even after those were fixed. EA and Bioware supported the game for 5 months and added extra content free of charge*. I am thankful for that.

 

*(unlike, for example, Square Enix who released a paid costume DLC for NieR: Automata, instead of patching game-breaking bugs or fixing PC controls)

 

Edit. I do understand frustration of MET fans and I do sympathize, but it doesn't justify the over-reaction.

Edit2. Toned down sarcasm. Can't expect from others to remain civil, if don't do so myself.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Hawke64

[ShadySands]

What content did they add? The MP stuff?

 

I binged and beat the game pretty quickly so I really don't know what content they've added

[the_dog_days]

What content did they add? The MP stuff?

 

I binged and beat the game pretty quickly so I really don't know what content they've added

 

They added a male Ryder/Jaal romance.

[213374U]

 

And EA claims it's our fault... the cancellation is the fault of rpg fans.

Some minor bugs were met with a hate campaign, which was going even after those were fixed. EA and Bioware supported the game for 5 months and added extra content free of charge*. I am thankful for that.

I don't know about hate "campaigns" -the term suggests an organized and coordinated effort- but I would certainly not call constant crashing on all platforms without even an event log entry a "minor bug".

 

Most of the criticism was aimed at poor production values, the most egregious examples of which were bad animations, textures, and ho-hum voice acting, as far as I recall. Back then I also thought some of the foaming-at-the-mouth raging (especially from YT e-celebs) was unwarranted, but hyperbole is the name of the game, and not a single thing or topic is safe from it. At any rate, that **** is inexcusable in an AAA game, and it's pretty clear that they knew the product wasn't ready to be shipped in march -- but they did anyway.

 

That being said, EA whatshisface's statement is so tone-deaf that it would get one in hot water in any other multi-billion industry... but this is vidya.

Edited August 26, 2017 by 213374U

[MortyTheGobbo]

I enjoyed Andromeda, but it's dishonest to say its poor reception was unfounded. The animations quickly became a ridiculously overblown meme, but there were issues with them. There was also a hell of a same-face syndrome going with Asari and Angara.

 

Perhaps my favourite new element in Andromeda was the lack of classes, but it was marred by the nonsensical restriction to three powers at a time. Which was a solution in want of a problem, and tired to the game's single most annoying feature, SAM.

Edited August 27, 2017 by MortyTheGobbo

[Belle Sorciere]

The three power restriction was fine in multiplayer but yeah, totally not needed in single player.

[Raithe]

Of course, they'd likely say "but you could switch profiles and change all three powers with the press of a button once you set the profile"...

 

Which on a certain principle made an interesting idea, but limiting you to three powers and your gun at a single time was.. unwieldy. Especially since you no longer had direct control over what your companions were doing. Which made setting up combos much more of a random element than a strategic one.

[MortyTheGobbo]

Switching sets was very unwieldy, since it put all your powers on cooldown, leaving you with just your guns. It didn't bother me that much when I played a combat-focused Ryder, who had a lot of powers with no cooldown and a lot of points in the weapon passives. But when I began a playthrough as a power-focused tech/biotic Ryder, it was very inconvenient.

 

I'm not sure what the intention was, really. Were they worried we'd spam combos and mix-and-match powers freely? If so, that was overkill, especially since combos are weaker than in ME3. Were favorite sets supposed to be on-the-spot retraining, rather than sets of powers within the same "build"? If so, then just like Belle Sorciere said, three powers are just too few for single-player. I think just giving us a power bar with eight spots on it, to be filled with whichever powers we buy, would have worked better.

[evilcat]

When one hero dies, another will rise.

There is a market for games below 1mln and 1-10mln. Which could look better than anything before, and be just as complex.

Lack of Bioware crpg is significant, But Vampyr and Elex looks fine.

[SonicMage117]

When one hero dies, another will rise.

There is a market for games below 1mln and 1-10mln. Which could look better than anything before, and be just as complex.

Lack of Bioware crpg is significant, But Vampyr and Elex looks fine.

I agree 100% about when one falls, another will rise. I have no doubt that if Nintendo and Sony died off that another console company would rise as well.

 

However, we have a safety net now that didn't exist 10 years ago and that is "crowd funding". If Bioware went bankrupt or close to it, they'd just do a fundraiser and go that way. No worries.

[Darkpriest]

 

When one hero dies, another will rise.

There is a market for games below 1mln and 1-10mln. Which could look better than anything before, and be just as complex.

Lack of Bioware crpg is significant, But Vampyr and Elex looks fine.

I agree 100% about when one falls, another will rise. I have no doubt that if Nintendo and Sony died off that another console company would rise as well.

 

However, we have a safety net now that didn't exist 10 years ago and that is "crowd funding". If Bioware went bankrupt or close to it, they'd just do a fundraiser and go that way. No worries.

 

 

No they won't - they are owned by EA and if they go in the red, they will be just renamed to EA something something and assimilated into the borg- I mean EA corp fully

[SonicMage117]

 

 

When one hero dies, another will rise.

There is a market for games below 1mln and 1-10mln. Which could look better than anything before, and be just as complex.

Lack of Bioware crpg is significant, But Vampyr and Elex looks fine.

I agree 100% about when one falls, another will rise. I have no doubt that if Nintendo and Sony died off that another console company would rise as well.

 

However, we have a safety net now that didn't exist 10 years ago and that is "crowd funding". If Bioware went bankrupt or close to it, they'd just do a fundraiser and go that way. No worries.

No they won't - they are owned by EA and if they go in the red, they will be just renamed to EA something something and assimilated into the borg- I mean EA corp fully

Well then, even moreso, it's very possible EA could do some lay offs, slamming the door at any moment... if EA did this, the people out of the job would start a new company. Same team but independent and crowdfunding games ajd possibly a few new people to help things as well. I think the games would be much better than anything they've put out in the last 15 years.

[Mamoulian War]

Well, too late. IIRC, from original Bioware staff, there are like 2 people still working at EA. All others have left long time ago...

 

Correct me if I am wrong.

[FlintlockJazz]

Well, too late. IIRC, from original Bioware staff, there are like 2 people still working at EA. All others have left long time ago...

 

Correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah, when Black Isle was being closed down you had the CEO Feargus go off and create Obsidian for the others to gather round.  With Bioware, the owners have already left and they didn't create a new company, rather they left the gaming business as a whole (I suspect EA had non-competition clauses or something put into their contracts or golden handshakes).  Beamdog is the closest thing Bioware has to Black Isle's Obsidian but something about them really puts me off...

 

EDIT: As for Bioware doing a fundraiser, I sincerely doubt anyone would fund them.  Crowdfunding is for indie developers and mid-tier developers trying to make their own games, not for megacorps to find extra revenue streams for them to bathe their genitals in.  They wouldn't need the money, they would need to convince their owners not to rebrand them as others have said.

Edited September 27, 2017 by FlintlockJazz

[evilcat]

Bioware probably dont need to be fundraised, EA overlords cover that one thing. Fundraising games, and then filling them with loot-cases... that would be a new level of decadence. It seems that new Bioware child is more massive online action, which dont have to be a bad thing, since Warframe is a fun game (if you like genre).

 

As for interesting projects: there is also Cthullu and GreedFall, and Wasteland 3. Some games which may be fine.

[Volourn]

". If Bioware went bankrupt or close to it, they'd just do a fundraiser and go that way. No worries.          "

 

BIO isn't a company. It's a division. It can't really go bankrupt in that way.

 

 

"EDIT: As for Bioware doing a fundraiser, I sincerely doubt anyone would fund them. "

 

Actually, I'm guessing plenty would. Even the awful nu BIO games still sell millions.  They would fundraise quite  abit of moolah. As much as it takes to make a    AAA game/ Likely not. But they'd have no problem funding a million+ EASILY.

[Bartimaeus]

I'm surprised AAA publishers haven't attempted to capitalize on crowdfunding yet, to be honest. At least as a way of gauging interest in perhaps "less safe" ideas that they're not sure about.