Politics - Episode 9: The Lurking Fear

[Zoraptor]

Yeah, China isn't quite the same 'communist' as they were historically, but for all intents and purposes, their politics is still socialist/communist.

 

They are basically 'State Capitalist', which is hybrid economic system with elements of western style capitalism but also an extremely strong interventionist streak and many state run companies along with the private ones; and with the private companies being wholly subservient to the state. By many arguments that is what later 'communist' economies actually were anyway, even when they claimed to be 'communist' planned economies (of which DPRK is probably the only current example).

 

They're also obsessed with stability, not just because the ruling party wants to stay in power, but as their very long history shows, every time things become unstable (for various reasons), the ruling dynasty loses power.

 

Sorry, that sentence doesn't make much sense.

 

They certainly want stability so as to stay in power, but also because every time China goes unstable bits break off and literally millions of people die as well as the ruling clique losing power?

[Malcador]

http://thehill.com/policy/international/346278-pentagon-weve-received-no-new-orders-on-venezuela-after-trump-remarks

 

He's on a roll

[smjjames]

 

They're also obsessed with stability, not just because the ruling party wants to stay in power, but as their very long history shows, every time things become unstable (for various reasons), the ruling dynasty loses power.

 

Sorry, that sentence doesn't make much sense.

 

They certainly want stability so as to stay in power, but also because every time China goes unstable bits break off and literally millions of people die as well as the ruling clique losing power?

 

 

They're just... more acutely aware of it or something? It's supposedly a cultural thing and it's a narrative given by those in the West. Having to keep 1.3 billion people from revolting is certainly a factor.

 

 

http://thehill.com/policy/international/346278-pentagon-weve-received-no-new-orders-on-venezuela-after-trump-remarks

 

He's on a roll

 

I treated that as him having no clue what he's even talking about.

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/346282-trump-refused-phone-call-from-venezuelan-president Probably Maduro demanding an explaination.

Edited August 12, 2017 by smjjames

[HoonDing]

hes butthurt Maduro mocked him for winning the presidency with 3,000,000 less votes

[Agiel]

 

Pretty much in line with Howard Stern's comments on the matter, who for my money is about the one person who knows Trump best outside of his family circle.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Agiel

[BruceVC]

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/12/542982015/home-to-university-of-virginia-prepares-for-violence-at-white-nationalist-rally

 

Oh my hat...white nationalists, white supremacists ....neo-nazis !!! Its all happening in Virginia and over a statue of Robert E Lee ?

[smjjames]

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/12/542982015/home-to-university-of-virginia-prepares-for-violence-at-white-nationalist-rally

 

Oh my hat...white nationalists, white supremacists ....neo-nazis !!! Its all happening in Virginia and over a statue of Robert E Lee ?

 

And you're surprised?

[Agiel]

Looking at photos of all these white supremacist rallies, I can't help but mirror Jesse Custer's sentiments:

 

[BruceVC]

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/12/542982015/home-to-university-of-virginia-prepares-for-violence-at-white-nationalist-rally

 

Oh my hat...white nationalists, white supremacists ....neo-nazis !!! Its all happening in Virginia and over a statue of Robert E Lee ?

 

And you're surprised?

 

Whats your opinion on taking down of this type of statue?

 

In  South Africa there are these irritating movements called " Rhodes must fall "  that want to remove all statues and or references to Colonialism or the history of the country. It makes no difference to me in the context of SA but Lee represents part of the history of the South, I can see how some people will see this as an attempt to erase history of white people and get upset

 

And Im not in anyway supporting any kind of white supremacist ideology. I am just saying  Lee is not seen by everyone as a symbol of racism or white superiority 

[Blarghagh]

They can't even take out a remote tiny al Qaeda outpost in Yemen without losing a SEAL and killing women and children. What are they going to do in NK

They don't even have to go out of their own country to fail. https://www.cato.org/blog/gao-weighs-countering-violent-extremism?utm_content=buffer111c5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[smjjames]

 

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/12/542982015/home-to-university-of-virginia-prepares-for-violence-at-white-nationalist-rally

 

Oh my hat...white nationalists, white supremacists ....neo-nazis !!! Its all happening in Virginia and over a statue of Robert E Lee ?

 

And you're surprised?

 

Whats your opinion on taking down of this type of statue?

 

In  South Africa there are these irritating movements called " Rhodes must fall "  that want to remove all statues and or references to Colonialism or the history of the country. It makes no difference to me in the context of SA but Lee represents part of the history of the South, I can see how some people will see this as an attempt to erase history of white people and get upset

 

And Im not in anyway supporting any kind of white supremacist ideology. I am just saying  Lee is not seen by everyone as a symbol of racism or white superiority

 

Given that you aren't familiar with US history, I get where you're coming from. However, the problem is that it's not just about history and Colonialism is the wrong equivalent here.

 

Not sure if you have any similar white nationalist groups in South Africa, but, say, if you have a statue of a well known Apartheid supporter/leader that people wanted removed, would your white nationalist groups go and protest it's removal?

 

To understand this, you have to go deep into US history. To try and summarize it, up to the civil war, African Americans were slaves (which AFAIK, didn't happen in South Africa, but Africans did get treated as second class citizens). This led to an ideological divide between northern states which didn't allow slavery (though still had issues with racism) and the southern states which did allow slavery.

 

Enter the Civil War in 1861, which was a fight over slavery. General Lee was the General of Generals in the Confederate south.

 

While you guys in South Africa had reconcillation stuff after apartheid ended, nothing like this happened after the Civil War, which is part of why things are like this today. However, racism did NOT end with the end of the Civil War, white supremacist groups, who resented what happened with the Civil War sprung up quickly afterwards and there are still stuff like that today who want a return to a 'white nation' and they view Confederate monuments as part of their history.

 

It's history, yes, but it's something that we never really had a tough reconcillation over or got it dealt with. Germany did, South Africa did, we didn't.

 

As for my personal opinion, yes, it should be removed as those racist white supremacist groups aren't good.

Edited August 12, 2017 by smjjames

[injurai]

Lee's views on slavery were not even progressive for his time. So it's not like he was an abolitionist that was merely defending southern sovereignty. The noble aspects of southern culture can always be reborn under new symbols of leadership; to mark a clean separation from the collective sin. Instead people want to hide under the "glory" of the form slave states. Which is shameful. The people taking to the streets to act out righteous southern indignation are shameful.

 

Even if some see Lee in a good light, does not mean he is worthy of being a bastion of pride. I see efforts to enshrine him as either being out of ignorance or out of political spite seeking justification for socio-political obstruction.

[smjjames]

Lee's views on slavery were not even progressive for his time. So it's not like he was an abolitionist that was merely defending southern sovereignty. The noble aspects of southern culture can always be reborn under new symbols of leadership; to mark a clean separation from the collective sin. Instead people want to hide under the "glory" of the form slave states. Which is shameful. The people taking to the streets to act out righteous southern indignation are shameful.

 

Even if some see Lee in a good light, does not mean he is worthy of being a bastion of pride. I see efforts to enshrine him as either being out of ignorance or out of political spite seeking justification for socio-political obstruction.

 

Except that they want those southern symbols of leadership to be symbols of white supremacy that match their beliefs.

[injurai]

 

Lee's views on slavery were not even progressive for his time. So it's not like he was an abolitionist that was merely defending southern sovereignty. The noble aspects of southern culture can always be reborn under new symbols of leadership; to mark a clean separation from the collective sin. Instead people want to hide under the "glory" of the form slave states. Which is shameful. The people taking to the streets to act out righteous southern indignation are shameful.

 

Even if some see Lee in a good light, does not mean he is worthy of being a bastion of pride. I see efforts to enshrine him as either being out of ignorance or out of political spite seeking justification for socio-political obstruction.

 

Except that they want those southern symbols of leadership to be symbols of white supremacy that match their beliefs.

 

 

Exactly.

[Malcador]

Apparently all the Nazis are really antifa people. Yup.

[HoonDing]

Wait - did the good guys get run over or the bad guys

[smjjames]

Wait - did the good guys get run over or the bad guys

 

That's entirely subjective, but it's the counter-protesters that got run over.

 

Also, one person has died in those clashes.

[BruceVC]

Wait - did the good guys get run over or the bad guys

Im unclear who was injured...people on both sides I imagine

 

I am following this story and its interesting how different groups are descending on Charlottesville for different reasons to keep the statue up....lets see so far we have 

 

• white surpremicists, white nationalists, neo-nazis, neo-Confederates, militiamen, KKK, alt-right

Who knew there were so many different groups representing the interests of white people....lucky us 

[smjjames]

I'm not sure either whether it was in the middle of a clash between the two groups or it was a group of only counter-protesters. Also, "alt-right" is a (well, has been and can be used) catchall for all of those white supremacist type groups.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

GuyWoman that died was an IWW member and the guy who did it is now in custody. Last I saw 3 others were injured. Edited August 12, 2017 by KaineParker

[Leferd]

Basket of Deplorables.

[Malcador]

Wonder if that'll count as terrorism

[Deadly_Nightshade]

**** the NeoNazis, the KKK, the Alt-Right and all the rest of these ****.

Currently the National Guard is out in the streets but there are still violent clashes going on.

The person driving the car was a member of the Alt-Right group from what was observed on the ground and the victims were all counter-protesters. Things are expected to get worse as the day goes on and several of the groups have stated they will stay in the area for at least a week so more problems are expected from these ****ers.

[smjjames]

Wonder if that'll count as terrorism

 

There seems to be a debate whether to call it terrorism, but really, since terrorism is all about intent, it should be called that, and people on the ground were calling it one.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

 

Wonder if that'll count as terrorism

 

 

There seems to be a debate whether to call it terrorism, but really, since terrorism is all about intent, it should be called that, and people on the ground were calling it one.

There's going to be a strong push from people here to have it be treated as a terrorist attack.