Politics Episode 8: WWF Edition

[injurai]

At what point do people stop banging their head against double speak, and start unifying words properly as synonyms. It's far easier to just engage their sentiment rather than trying to prove there was some misinformation that needs to be deconstructed. Your deconstructions won't really be illuminating anyone.

[Blarghagh]

That's my point, with such a loose definition of misinformation (he said a structure, not a building!) it becomes really easy to just throw around random accusations of fake news. What are we, Trump?

[redneckdevil]

Fair enough, but how does different discriptionary words counts as misinformation? It's like saying somebody calling a bush foliage is misinforming people. He's not. A bush is foliage. Undocumented workers are illegal immigrants.

https://youtu.be/7n2PW1TqxQk

[Blarghagh]

It's not really soft-language though. It's just a sub-problem. I swear, the anti-political correctness debaters looks and reaches for outrage more than the SJWs ever did.

[Gfted1]

Words have actual meanings, discuss!

[injurai]

George Carlin is right. At the same time I think people above a certain age bare individual responsibility to develop their language skills and keep up with language.

 

It's a two prong issue. On one side, stop using language to manipulate people, opt for sincerity and clarity. Do take on the responsibility to understand what is being said and understand that language embeds the spin that the speaker wishes to put on something. Instead of acting like they are hiding things, it will actually tell you more. But also don't just go around reading into everything someone says, there language use may be a result of the realm they are operating in and not some malicious ulterior motive.

[Hurlshort]

Illegal immigration and undocumented workers are two different things, though, although there is going to be quite a bit of overlap. When you are talking about people taking your jobs, undocumented workers is a more descriptive term. Honestly illegal immigrant is a bit of a misleading term. Do people that crossed over legally but overstayed a visa still count as illegal?

 

Illegal immigrant is fairly loaded as a term, it makes it sound like being in the US without a visa or citizenship is a criminal offense. It is a civil one. The term really applies more to a person caught in the act of trying to cross the border. But it has become common place and broad in usage, and that doesn't really bother me. As was mentioned, it tells me a lot about the person using it.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Hurlshot

[Blarghagh]

Are people who work but don't document it or pay income tax immigrants?

[Gfted1]

On a scale of one to ten, what is your favorite color of the alphabet?

[injurai]

Porcupine

[redneckdevil]

1 purple u

[Raithe]

To go with a scene from Babylon 5...

 

 

John Sheridan:
It's our version of the homeless. In many ways, we have the same problem Earth does.

Julie Musante:
Mmm. Earth doesn't have homeless.

Sheridan:
Excuse me?

Musante:
We don't have the problem. Yes, there are some "displaced" people, here and there, but, uh… they've chosen to be in that position. They're either lazy, or they're criminal, or they're mentally unstable.

Sheridan:
They can't get a job!

Musante:
EarthGov has promised a job to anyone that wants one. So, if someone doesn't have a job, they must not want one.

. . .

[Musante runs down a list of all the social problems EarthGov has suddenly solved.]

Sheridan:
And, uh w-when exactly did all this happen?

Musante:
When we rewrote the dictionary.

[Namutree]

Fair enough, but how does different discriptionary words counts as misinformation? It's like saying somebody calling a bush foliage is misinforming people. He's not. A bush is foliage. Undocumented workers are illegal immigrants.

You're right that it could be referring to the issue of undocumented workers specifically and not using it as a euphemism for illegal aliens, but that would be extremely strange considering there is no angst in the US regarding undocumented workers. There is, however, a lot regarding illegal aliens.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Namutree

[Wrath of Dagon]

Fair enough, but how does different discriptionary words counts as misinformation? It's like saying somebody calling a bush foliage is misinforming people. He's not. A bush is foliage. Undocumented workers are illegal immigrants.

It's misinformation because it implies the only issue here is that they somehow failed to get their documents correct for working, where in fact they broke the law by coming here and continue to break it by being here at all, working or not.

 

Do people that crossed over legally but overstayed a visa still count as illegal?

Yes, because it's illegal to overstay your visa. Edited July 13, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[Hurlshort]

When you have 11 million people breaking the law, it's easy to just blame those people. But the reality is probably a lot more complex than that. It is akin to me blaming my students when half of them fail a test. I can easily justify that they didn't study enough or whatever, but in reality I created a bad situation as the teacher. The US has put itself in this situation and needs immigration reform more than a wall and mass deportation.

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/27/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

Edited July 13, 2017 by Hurlshot

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yes, it's totally the US fault for us having it so good everyone in the world wants to come here. Also I never said I blame those people, I mostly blame the government for refusing to enforce or even helping people break the law.

 

Edit: Trump isn't even doing "mass deportations". Leftists don't even want criminals deported.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[Blarghagh]

Yes, it's totally the US fault for us having it so good everyone in the world wants to come here.

Blame the tagline.

[injurai]

Edit: Trump isn't even doing "mass deportations". Leftists don't even want criminals deported.

 

Might be better to deport someone if it's the US prison system they are facing... speaking form a purely lefty utilitarian perspective that is...

[Wrath of Dagon]

They serve their sentences first, then get deported. At least in theory.

[HoonDing]

"Yes, it's totally the US fault for us having it so good everyone in the world wants to come here."

 

[Wrath of Dagon]

lol Anyway he's crying about pollution.

[Gfted1]

I'm so old that commercial was in active circulation on tv at the time.

[Gromnir]

On a scale of one to ten, what is your favorite color of the alphabet?

am aware some people see numbers as colors. synesthesia?  am not knowing much 'bout the "condition."  in any event, one s'poses is possible to see letters as colors as well, and regardless, letters may be expressed as numbers, so the question is not the kinda cheshire cat query gifted might have expected.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[injurai]

He's also Italian.

[Guard Dog]

Ben, Gorgon and others, I have not forgotten our conversation, I'll get back to it. The last 48 hours have been a very bad time for me.

 

Just a thought on the current news though. I'm not providing links, you can look for yourself. In the last few days stories have run that have link the Clinton Campaign, John McCain, various members of the Trump campaign including his son, a Republican Congressman from California, two Democrat Congressmen from New York, and the Obama DoJ and State Department have all been linked to various Russian nationals who may or may not be agents of it's government concerning "incriminating" political information on people the various actors here don't like/oppose. 

 

Assume there is a grain (at least) of truth in all of it. If Putin really wanted to undermine the US why do it with helping one party over the other? Why not help both against each other then let it slip that it happened? You can completely undermine the faith people have in all of their government (more than it already is). All you need is:

• 1 Evil genius intent on sowing chaos among his enemies. Check
• 2 political parties so arrayed against each other they will gladly accept a Faustian bargain and sell their souls for an advantage over the other. Check
• 1 Electorate divided down the middle that honestly believes one party is evil and the other is good. Check.

Just a thought.