From the Twitch Q&A: enchanting and ceiling

[algroth]

To me it really depends on how they're re-implementing crafting. I believe their plan with regards to crafting is to have it be more unique and related to the properties present in each individual weapon, which is cool because I think it allows gear to remain unique and not be standardized by being all able to be enchanted in the same way. But in turn I could see how, say, a flaming sword that initially only gives a small bonus fire damage might eventually reach a ceiling by not offering a greater amount and variety of crafting branches than the more "complex" weapons we may see later in the game. In all honesty I'm pretty intrigued by their re-evaluation of crafting and if an item ceiling acts as something of a sacrifice to make for it, I'm cool with that.

Edited February 15, 2017 by algroth

[draego]

To me it really depends on how they're re-implementing crafting. I believe their plan with regards to crafting is to have it be more unique and related to the properties present in each individual weapon, which is cool because I think it allows gear to remain unique and not be standardized by being all able to be enchanted in the same way. But in turn I could see how, say, a flaming sword that initially only gives a small bonus fire damage might eventually reach a ceiling by not offering a greater amount and variety of crafting branches than the more "complex" weapons we may see later in the game. In all honesty I'm pretty intrigued by their re-evaluation of crafting and if an item ceiling acts as something of a sacrifice to make for it, I'm cool with that.

 

I actually think uniqueness is an admirable goal and should be explored. what i am wondering is the generic accuracy bonus stuff. so its fine to have only one flaming sword the whole game but if i cant bump its accuracy i will have to use another sword in late game due to scaling issues. Maybe this wont be an issue but we need more info.

Edited February 15, 2017 by jnb0364

[Pel]

While I do agree it feels crappy to have to trash an awesome piece of equipment you loved looking at or playing with in other crpgs (or occasionally in Pillars 1), it's also kind of cool, both thematically and realistically, that a superbly crafted weapon or armor can still have an varyingly innate, limited amount of power that it can hold, while teaching us some lessons that change is mostly inevitable if you want the "optimal" life or path and that compromise (looking less cool but being stronger, etc) is also a big part of life.

[dunehunter]

No. Part of the reward for going into dungeons and completing quests is finding new items. Good move by Josh.

Totally disagree, yeah it's exciting to loot new equipment, however, you CANNOT derive of my right to pick whatever weapon I wanna use, and that ceiling idea seems to force power gamers to do so.

[dunehunter]

I really hate the weapon design in Diablo and Divinity:Origins, weapon with level limit and players cannot enhance its level is a lame idea. I really glad Poe1 have craft system to ensure the freedom for ppls to use whatever they like to wear and have a feeling the weapon grow with the main character.

[dunehunter]

To solve the "problem" (if you think it is one) you'd only have to put more exciting enchantments (which the player can't apply by himself) on late game weapons.

 

So, for example instead of capping quality enchantments on early game weapons and thus preventing them to reach superb or legendary or whatever, you could introduce more potent and/or special enchantments on late game gear to make them more appealing.

 

This way a player who likes his spear which "only" has higher interrupt than a normal spear can keep using it. It will not be the most potent weapon in the game, but at least it can keep up in terms of quality via enchantments (=acc and damage bonuses). You don't necessarily have to throw it away.

 

In PoE most of the late game stuff wasn't significantly better in terms of cool enchantments - often only in quality. So put more creativity and efford into developing new exciting enchantments instead of putting time and work into a system which takes something away from the game.

 

Edit: and by the way putting a great weapon right at the end of the game is not the best decision in my opinion. Except if you can carry it over to a new playthrough.

From the B to the E to the R to the A...

I'm not too concerned about this issue because even they add some caps to early weapons, mods made by players can always solve this kind of problem

[hilfazer]

I wonder...

how many weapons/armors could you enchant to superb/legendary/mythical level with full White March?

Just a numbers please, no details.

[JerekKruger]

how many weapons/armors could you enchant to superb/legendary/mythical level with full White March?

Just a numbers please, no details.

 

2/3 6/7 8/9 (final answer... I hope).

Edited February 25, 2017 by JerekKruger

[hilfazer]

 

how many weapons/armors could you enchant to superb/legendary/mythical level with full White March?

Just a numbers please, no details.

 

2/3 6/7 8/9 (final answer... I hope).

 

Thank you. You were really good at avoiding details. Even too good (:

I should have specified i'm actually looking for 6 numbers - one for each level of armor and one for each level of weapons.

I just did not want any spoilers on how to get those enchantments.

Oh and by weapons i mean 1h weapons.

I hope it's clear enough this time

[zered]

I like my starting sword and I want to keep it till the end damn it! The idea to limit the power of enchanting a weapon is god-damn awfull and I hope they won't go this way.

 

 

If I want to use late game gear I will just use it, if I want to keep basic early stuff then why limit my choice? Feels totaly not rpg-cool.

Edited February 25, 2017 by zered

[JerekKruger]

I should have specified i'm actually looking for 6 numbers - one for each level of armor and one for each level of weapons.

 

Ah okay. The for armour it's Legendary x4 for Weapons it's Legendary x2 and then you can also enchant 2 items (weapons or armour) to Superb as well. Mythic can't be enchanted, it has to be there already.

[tryst_91]

I completely agree, I like being able to keep my favorite equipment and upgrade it as needed to keep it relevant. Hopefully one of the devs will stumble upon this post....

[hilfazer]

 

I should have specified i'm actually looking for 6 numbers - one for each level of armor and one for each level of weapons.

 

Ah okay. The for armour it's Legendary x4 for Weapons it's Legendary x2 and then you can also enchant 2 items (weapons or armour) to Superb as well. Mythic can't be enchanted, it has to be there already.

 

Thanks again, You're a bro.

 

But damn, i'm confused now. Josh said we can upgrade weapons to highest enchantment level. Highest is mythic. 

Not only we can't enchant to highest enchantment level but we can only enchant two weapons (or 1 2h weapon) to Legendary.

 

That would mean his reason for revamping enchanting  system is ... totally wrong. I hope i'm just being stupid here and missing something obvious.

 

It's not like i consider their new idea for enchanting to be something awful. I'm just against that ceiling.

BTW their new enchanting is inspired by POE (Path of Exile): Melee Splash and Chain.

Also, their post fig video features a Sparklike spell.

Also, Tyranny has a Shock debuff that increases shock damage taken by 50%. Sounds strangely familiar

Not like learning from a game that has outblizzarded Blizzard is a bad thing.

[JerekKruger]

...or 1 2h weapon

 

It has been a while, but I am fairly certain enchanting two-handed weapons takes the same amount of ingredients.

[Rekombo]

The Balance above everything else.

[hilfazer]

The Balance above everything else.

Actually it was balanced when 2h took twice as many rare ingredients than 1h.

Think in terms of weapon sets: 2h takes two slots, 2*h1 take 2 slots, 1h+shield take 2 slots. Single 1h was privileged and that was also good for balanced because their fighting style feat was badly designed. No, it wasn't UP, it was badly designed, it was a terrible fit for single 1h weapon.

[PrimeJunta]

Ambivalent.

 

The P1 system does let you support wacky item-based builds from start to finish, or at least from the point you get the item to finish. That's good. 

 

On the other hand, I disliked the way it diluted the character of individual items. Even in the best case, it usually boiled down to a single property you were interested in -- Marking, or an on-crit debuff, or whatever.

 

I found it particularly displeasing aesthetically that you could upgrade the quality of an item: in my view, properties like "Fine" or "Exceptional" ought to be intrinsic to the item. You shouldn't be able to take a rusty butter knife and make it a "superb" dagger. That's largely a naming thing; if these qualities had been clearly flagged as enchantments then sure, whatever, why not.

 

So a more restrictive enchantment system does address these gripes of mine. The immovable enchantment ceiling provides the character that I thought was missing due to the possibility of upgrading item quality. So in principle I'm in favour.

 

However, this does significantly dilute the ability to base builds around items, like many of your wackiest ones @Boeroer. The only way around that that I can see is to make this a bit of a Monty Haul – if there are enough items around with the particular enchantment you're looking for in each of the tiers, then that becomes possible again.

 

tl;dr I don't have a strongly-held opinion on this one (unlike per-rest spells and endurance/health, BRING THEM BACK)

[CottonWolf]

I wonder...

how many weapons/armors could you enchant to superb/legendary/mythical level with full White March?

Just a numbers please, no details.

 

 

Mythic - 0 (they're all uniques, it's not enchantable), Legendary - 6, Superb - 8(?)

 

And I think that it's a combination, so a total of 6 legendary enchants across weapons and armour, and likewise superb. That's my understanding anyway.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

After playing Tyranny one thing I really liked was how they riffed on Pillar's item system by adding "scaling" depending on what level you found a weapon at.

 

Find it early, it has a light enchantment

Find it late, it has top level enchants

 

I hope they adopt that system for this game also.

[Boeroer]

Please not for me. I don't like that concept at all.

[hilfazer]

After playing Tyranny one thing I really liked was how they riffed on Pillar's item system by adding "scaling" depending on what level you found a weapon at.

 

Find it early, it has a light enchantment

Find it late, it has top level enchants

 

I hope they adopt that system for this game also.

On high levels we have a lot of money and we won't be able to even spend this money enchanting items because they will already have best enchants.

That's useless and bad for economy.

 

There's a chance you meant another thing but i pray to Eothas you didn't.

[JerekKruger]

Please not for me. I don't like that concept at all.

 

Agreed, that would really ruin the game for me.

[PrimeJunta]

Level-scaled loot is of the devil.

[kirottu]

Huh, I just realized that according to Dante Hell is level scaled. Did it make Hell better or worse? Is it the first example of level scaling? Deep thoughts, man, deep thoughts.

[JerekKruger]

Huh, I just realized that according to Dante Hell is level scaled. Did it make Hell better or worse? Is it the first example of level scaling? Deep thoughts, man, deep thoughts.

 

It made Hell better at being Hell, which is to say it made Hell a lot, lot worse