List of Subclasses as we learn about them.

[SaruNi]

Huh, that's a lot more subclasses than I thought there would be. I was under the impression it'd be base class + one subclass. Presumably, we will get to play a base class without a subclass, though.

 

I hope there's a sniper subclass for rogue, focusing on ranged sneak attacks. Not that anything stops a rogue in PoE1 from shooting, but it'd be nice to have a dedicated option.

 

They've announced an Assassin subclass. Vanilla ranged rogues were already very good in PoE 1---they got the major advantages of rogue without having to deal with the major disadvantage (fragility). The only thing they (usually) gave up was backstab (though ranged backstab was possible at close range), which wasn't very good... and that specialization has already been well-implemented. (On the other hand, melee Cipher was not as good as ranged Cipher, or at least not until very high levels.) Most of the subclasses announced so far either balance out a weakness in the PoE 1 class (assassin for lack of good backstab mechanic) or do something unusual and interesting.

 

A subclass that specializes in traps and/or casting spells from items would be better than devoting one of the three subclasses to basic ranged rogue. But I'd prefer something that hasn't been done so often before---surprise us.

Edited April 22, 2017 by SaruNi

[MortyTheGobbo]

Fair point. Hanging back and sniping is well-covered by rogue's existing skillset. As for a trap-oriented one... traps were kind of pointless in Pillars. But then, it'd make a subclass that actually uses them effectively something new.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Looking through this I have to wonder how class abilities selected at level up will be handled and if subclasses will get all their stuff at once.

[Boeroer]

Heh? What do you mean?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Heh? What do you mean?

If class abilities will be different for some sub-classes or even restricted for some. Like say a Black Jacket gets a higher damage boost when using Weapon Mastery for weapons an enemy is vulnerable to but a lower constant damage boost. Probably won't change much, but the Ghost Heart for example seems like it's companion centered talents and abilities will need tweaking to compensate for the lower duration the companion is summoned.

 

The other thing was if subclasses got all extra abilities at once. For instance if the BlackJacket gets quick swap, bonus damage and penetration, and lower accuracy at level 1 or if those bonuses are spread out, like +X% damage penetration every X level and X less Accuracy every X level.

[Boeroer]

But what do you mean with "at once"?

 

You don't pick fighter and then at some point switch to black jacket. Instead, you'd have to decide right from the start which (sub)class you want to play: normal fighter or subclass 1 or 2 or 3.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

But what do you mean with "at once"?

If all factors are applied at once. For the Black Jacket if bonus weapon damage, bonus penetration, and accuracy penalty are applied at Level 1 or spread out through levels. The difference between (+20% Damage, +3 DR BYpass, -3 accuracy) at level 1 with no changes with level and (+10% Damage, +1 DR Bypass, -1 accuracy) every 3 levels, if that makes any sense.

[Doppelschwert]

The way josh described it, most things will scale on class level / class ressource (can't keep up with the names), so I guess the subclass bonuses all are available at the first level, and are either balanced against a downside that is also immediately available, or scale slowly, on a case to case basis.

From a systemic point of view, they probably only operate on class defining things that you get on the first level, since, judging from PoE, every class talent afterwards is optional anyway, and modifiying those wouldn't make much sense.

 

I doubt we will see complicated things like rebalancing of later talents based on subclasses or similiar considerations; for the Ghost Heart ranger, it's probably just less beneficial to pick up the pet boosting talents, even though you can.

 

Currently, I consider the subclasses as additional bonus talents which almost exclusively shift some values around to incentivice certain playstyles. I'd be positively surprised if we even got one optional additional talent for every subclass to pick from (like paladins and priests had multiple of in PoE), lest a lot of active ones like the ghost heart ranger would receive. That would amount to roughly 30 optional talents alone, and given the very few addition in WM with regards to new talents, those seem to be a lot of work.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Doppelschwert

[Boeroer]

If all factors are applied at once. For the Black Jacket if bonus weapon damage, bonus penetration, and accuracy penalty are applied at Level 1 or spread out through levels. The difference between (+20% Damage, +3 DR BYpass, -3 accuracy) at level 1 with no changes with level and (+10% Damage, +1 DR Bypass, -1 accuracy) every 3 levels, if that makes any sense.

Ah - now I got it.

[Fardragon]

My feeling is, they will follow the pattern of priests and paladin orders. The subclasses will tend to have minor differences at first, but will be defined by access to unique Abilities and Talents.

[DigitalCrack]

Well soulblade/ghost heart going to be my first playthrough. Melee cipher was my first PoE1 character so should love it.

[SaruNi]

Given Deadfire's theme, one of the rogue subclasses will almost certainly be pirate-related. (The obvious thing would be some sort of "Swashbuckler"---maybe with a buffed riposte mechanic. But it would be nice to have a gun-wielding pirate too (maybe gun riposte wouldn't be too OP if it required reloading or having a loaded weapon equipped when attacked?). But there are other possibilities for a pirate-ey rogue subclass (even traps... buried treasure and all that).)

 

With Assassin and pirate-somethingorother probably taken, I'd like the third rogue subclass to be something that hasn't been done before.

[DigitalCrack]

So based off the pic of pallegina's five sun's mark enemy ability (which I assume is a subclass specific ability or altered core ability) looks like subclass skills/alterations will be pretty substantial.  One of the upgrade tiers for that ability lets pallegina fire off flaming projectiles at the target its cast on, on top of its original function.

[MortyTheGobbo]

Well, upgrading Sworn Enemy with five fiery projectiles was something Pallegina could already do in Pillars. What's more interesting is that the ability has two possible upgrades - are they exclusive? But it might not have anything to do with subclasses.

[DigitalCrack]

Well, upgrading Sworn Enemy with five fiery projectiles was something Pallegina could already do in Pillars. What's more interesting is that the ability has two possible upgrades - are they exclusive? But it might not have anything to do with subclasses.

Never knew that she could in the first one.  Given that its been stated that Pallegina's order (five sun's) is a unique subclass only useable by her I am fairly confident that it is subclass specific.  Which means we should see similar things with (at very least) the other paladin orders and potentially with others.

[darqleo]

 

Well, upgrading Sworn Enemy with five fiery projectiles was something Pallegina could already do in Pillars. What's more interesting is that the ability has two possible upgrades - are they exclusive? But it might not have anything to do with subclasses.

Never knew that she could in the first one.  Given that its been stated that Pallegina's order (five sun's) is a unique subclass only useable by her I am fairly confident that it is subclass specific.  Which means we should see similar things with (at very least) the other paladin orders and potentially with others.

 

 

There's a couple of good game guides online to poke around on, here's the one on Paladins. It lists Pallegina's special Abilities including that one.

 

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Paladin

 

Frermàs mes Canc Suolias (Pallegina only)

• Vielo Vidòrio - When the paladin uses Flames of Devotion, nearby allies gain increased Attack Speed.
• Wrath of Five Suns - Whenever the paladin uses Sworn Enemy, five orbs of flame leap from his or her hand and fly toward the target.

[SaruNi]

 

 

Well, upgrading Sworn Enemy with five fiery projectiles was something Pallegina could already do in Pillars. What's more interesting is that the ability has two possible upgrades - are they exclusive? But it might not have anything to do with subclasses.

Never knew that she could in the first one.  Given that its been stated that Pallegina's order (five sun's) is a unique subclass only useable by her I am fairly confident that it is subclass specific.  Which means we should see similar things with (at very least) the other paladin orders and potentially with others.

 

 

There's a couple of good game guides online to poke around on, here's the one on Paladins. It lists Pallegina's special Abilities including that one.

 

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Paladin

 

Frermàs mes Canc Suolias (Pallegina only)

• Vielo Vidòrio - When the paladin uses Flames of Devotion, nearby allies gain increased Attack Speed.
• Wrath of Five Suns - Whenever the paladin uses Sworn Enemy, five orbs of flame leap from his or her hand and fly toward the target.

 

 

 

Wasn't Wrath of Five Suns added (in patch 3) because people thought Pallegina was underpowered? 

 

With NPC's they can balance special abilities against weak attributes... whereas the subclasses are balanced by having drawbacks relative to the base class. So if a subclass had an ability like that it would probably be balanced by a major drawback.

[MortyTheGobbo]

Well, hopefully it won't annihilate certain enemies in one hit in Deadfire.

[DigitalCrack]

 

 

 

Well, upgrading Sworn Enemy with five fiery projectiles was something Pallegina could already do in Pillars. What's more interesting is that the ability has two possible upgrades - are they exclusive? But it might not have anything to do with subclasses.

Never knew that she could in the first one. Given that its been stated that Pallegina's order (five sun's) is a unique subclass only useable by her I am fairly confident that it is subclass specific. Which means we should see similar things with (at very least) the other paladin orders and potentially with others.

There's a couple of good game guides online to poke around on, here's the one on Paladins. It lists Pallegina's special Abilities including that one.

 

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Paladin

 

Frermàs mes Canc Suolias (Pallegina only)

• Vielo Vidòrio - When the paladin uses Flames of Devotion, nearby allies gain increased Attack Speed.
• Wrath of Five Suns - Whenever the paladin uses Sworn Enemy, five orbs of flame leap from his or her hand and fly toward the target.

 

Wasn't Wrath of Five Suns added (in patch 3) because people thought Pallegina was underpowered?

 

With NPC's they can balance special abilities against weak attributes... whereas the subclasses are balanced by having drawbacks relative to the base class. So if a subclass had an ability like that it would probably be balanced by a major drawback.

The pic I was referring to show the sworn enemy skill and then various ways in which it gets upgraded (if you have taken certain talents I am guessing) Just meant to point out that subclasses may be getting access to talents that augment existing class abilities (like palidins in PoE1) based off that photo showing pallegina's sworn enemy description.

[darknessest]

To be honest

A drug using warrior can be amazing.

 

Geralt of Rivia (The Witcher) uses drugs all the time.

 

Bane. One of the worst enemies of Batman. Uses drugs.

 

Elric. The albino emperor of Melnibone needs his drugs to be able to fight or else is too weak.

 

Or if you like it asian...

The Drunken Master is an archetype of monk that fights better because of drugs.

 

I could go on. Just to show it isnt far fetched and out of nowhere.

Its well established.

 

Also: this monk is more based on a flaggelant who would whip themselves into a high/frenzy. So be glad he isnt wearing leather and a whip hahaha

 

thanks for this mate. finally some sense.

 

also maybe some of you should stop trying to project or roleplay *yourself* in every rpg you get a shot at. if you're uncomfortable with the real world implications of drug use, i would in no way try to dissuade you or to change that in you. respect. but that really isn't even on the table. what we have here is an opportunity to behave, relate, and experience stories and persons outside our own in a controlled and safe medium. roleplaying right?  

Edited May 8, 2017 by darknessest

[darknessest]

also here's a fun fact about the witch's broomstick mythology! relevant to monk/drug topic even!

 

"Flying ointments are found at a variety of points in magical history and many cultures. The essential ingredients are a grease base, one or more of the poisonous solanum species (Datura, Henbane or Deadly Nightshade and sometimes Aconite or Wolfsbane). The ointment is smeared on the forehead and around the thighs and was occasionally applied internally to the female genitalia using a broom handle, hence the myths. The alkaloids of the solanaceae cause drowsiness and unconsciousness in which hallucinations of flying occur."

 

edit: Zahua also seems to take some inspiration from Hindu sects and their methods revolving around depersonalization and one-ness. I was reminded of the Aghori: covering one's self in the ashes of the dead, eating the dead, drug use etc. he seems to get at this with this introduction, but i think i can understand where some people are coming from with most of his one-liners being silly and stereotypical.  

 

"This freedom is a realization of the self's identify with the absolute. Because of this monistic doctrine, the Aghoris maintain that all opposites are ultimately illusory. The purpose of embracing pollution and degradation through various customs is the realization of non-duality through transcending social taboos, attaining what is essentially an altered stare of consciousness and perceiving the illusory nature of all conventional categories."

 

i've even heard of yogic systems revolving around twitching to make one's self come off as bizarre or insane. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by darknessest

[Munky_]

Is the original post going to be updated or do I need to search through all 13 pages?

 

...I'll probably just search through all 13 pages anyways.

[Fardragon]

I don't think there is much additional information to update at this time.

[Messier-31]

Ganrich is updating his OP.

 

As you can see his last edit was on April 26th, which is fairly new.

[Gromnir]

only obvious omission from the genesis post we see is the berserker subclass for the barbarian.  keep in mind josh referred to "a berserker subclass," rather than the berserker subclass. is highly possible the subclass will have a different name than "berserker."

 

HA! Good Fun!