My barbarian. Guess I am not doing it right...

[IamNOOB]

Hi all. I like barbarians in all RPGs and this time after a long train of thought I have decided that in this game my first walkthrough will be with barbarian. A dwarf barbarian even, which is kind of funny, since they are always supposed to be tall and wide-shouldered melee killing machines.

I want to ask questions about the basic stats first.

1. At the start of the game I was able to pick and I invested all in might and constitution. I am a dual wielder. Maybe I am wrong to not pick dex?

2. I am level 7 but I never got the chance to invest more points when levelling up - I would have went for dex. Why there are no points to distribute in new levels?? Am I missing something<?
3. How to correctly use items when I have to avoid the "S***, bonuses do not stack" problem??


Another thing:
4. Is it ok to use heavy armor on the dual wielding frenzy barb?

 

Next question--- 5. what is the max level for any character in this game?


Next problem for me is that I dont see the purpose behind character traits, mostly used in dialogues>>>>
I go for stoic and clevel but what will it grant me? I got +3 stoic , so what...?

THANKS A LOT.

 

Edited January 7, 2017 by IamNOOB

[JerekKruger]

Barbarians aren't the easiest class to play, so don't worry if you're finding yours a little tricky. To answer your questions:

 

1. Perhaps somewhat counter-intuitively, the typical recommendation for a Barbarian is Constitution 10. You have the highest natural Health and Endurance, so you don't particularly need to raise Constitution higher, but lowering it is also a bad idea since the reductions affect you disproportionately (-X% of a large number is more than -X% of a small number). There are Barbarian Builds that make use of both very high and very low Constitution, but they are always trying to do something unusual. As for Might, high is absolutely fine.

 

I think if I were going to build a typical, AoE damage dealing Barbarian, I'd go for something like

 

Mig 17

Con 10

Dex 10

Per 15

Int 18

Res 8

 

High Might to increase damage, high Intellect to increase the area of effect of Carnage, and reasonably high Perception to offset the Barbarian's lowish Accuracy and the even lower accuracy of Carnage attacks. Having such a low Dexterity might be a bit painful, but with Dual Wielding, Two Weapon Style and Frenzy (along with some other attack speed boosts) it should be possible to attack very quickly even when wearing decent armour.

 

2. In PoE you don't get any more Attribute points after character creation. There are a few one off opportunities to raise your attributes through quests, and plenty of items raise them too, but other than that what you start with is what you get.

 

3. The basic rule is this: you can only ever have one bonus of a given type from gear, and if you are wearing multiple items that give the same type of bonus you'll get the best one (for example, if you're wearing a Breastplate that gives you +1 Might, and a Helm that gives you +2 Might, then you will only get the bonus from the Helm). The exception to this rule are Weapons and Shields: these can stack on top of other bonuses of the same type.

 

Roughly the same rule works for buffs provided by spells too, although that's a lot more complicated and has more exceptions. But generally speaking if two different spells raise the same attribute then you'll only get the highest of the two etc.

 

4. If you feel like you're doing enough damage then sure, why not. Later on into the game you'll probably be able to do so AND still attack with 0 recovery (the fastest possible).

 

5. 16.

 

6. Yeah, there's relatively little benefit from dispositions like stoic etc., there are a few pieces of unique dialogue but generally I think it's something Obsidian thought up early on, but then ran out of time to properly flesh out. Fingers crossed they'll do something better with it in PoE2.

[draego]

1. Dex isnt that important for dual wield which already i think gives you something like 50% attack speed. Also there is a talent for dual wield to give you another 20% speed

2, 3 There are not attribute points on level up. You get extra attribute points from spells, potions, resting, food, and gear. The gear items will not stack with each other so two items with + intellect will not stack (exception is weapon attribute bonus, if you have weapon that give attribute bonus then it will stack with other gear). When it comes to gear other types of bonuses can be way more important than attributes bonuses. In this game most of the time +2 attribute gear isnt huge but more like icing on the cake. I wouldnt worry about trying to stack all + attributes on you character maybe concentrate on one maybe two attribute. armor can also be upgraded to give you a +2 attribute bonus freeing up one of your other slots for more important bonuses.

4. Yes you can use heavy armor and still reach zero recovery. Also although i dont think it stacks with frenzy potions Deleterious Alacrity of Motion give you 50% attack speed so when you are not in frenzy use them. 

5. max level is 16

6. the purpose of traits is role playing. This is an rpg and traits are an rpg mechanic. people will react differently to use based on traits. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by jnb0364

[IamNOOB]

This means I will have to retrain [again]. Oh I sure hoped max level is 30 or 50... 16 seems so "not enough" for me

[draego]

Well it starts to get crazy toward the end of the game. Trust me your part will be crazy powerful.

[draego]

There is a build page under the "Pillars of Eternity: Characters Builds, Strategies & the Unity Engine (Spoiler Warning!)" forum. look for barbarian builds to get an idea of what you are trying to do. be careful with some of those build though they min max a lot which i dont like to much but the good thing is attributes dont matter that much. What matters more is playstyle, talents and abilities. so a lot of those builds can be done with almost any non min maxed attribute distribution so i wouldnt necessarily sweat a retrain. for example there is a barb in there with the attribute distribution. 

 

MIG: 10

CON: 10

DEX: 15 ®

PER: 21 (!)

INT: 15 ®

RES: 7

 

and 

MIG: 19
CON: 03
DEX: 15
PER: 18
INT: 19
RES: 04

 

and

 

MIG: 18  
CON: 03 
DEX: 04 
PER: 16
INT: 19
RES: 18

 

so almost anything works. again i dont like min max to this extreme and it isnt necessary but you can see people make all kinds of stuff work

Edited January 7, 2017 by jnb0364

[KDubya]

I would not sweat having everything in might and con, it'll work fine.

 

I am of the opinion that since Barbarians and Monks have the highest Constitution multipliers that it is better to double down on that bonus and add even more Constitution. With Savage Defiance, Veteran's Recovery, Shod-in-Faith boots and the two Chanter Regen auras you will pretty much be unable to be killed.

 

The beauty of the game is that there are lot's of ways to build a character, just identify what you want out of it and optimize for that.

[Boeroer]

What KDubya said.

 

Max MIG and CON is totally fine. Lots of INT, too. Your theoretical DPS will not be as high as with more DEX, but you will be a lot sturdier. This can also lead to more damage because you don't get knocked down.

 

I did a solo run with such a dual wielding boreal dwarf barbarian with max MIG, max CON, max INT and 3 RES and 2 DEX only plis plate armor and it was fine. Potion of Spirit Shield helps with the interrupts you will suffer from low RES. Later on there are itemitems that help. Or a priest in the party csn cast Holy Meditation for you.

 

Concerning attack speed: You not only have two weapons (50% speed), Two Weapon Style (20%) and Frenzy (33%) but also Bloodlust (20%, everything in thst list stacks) and Blood Thirst (recovery = 0 after kill) to speed you up. DEX has an impact of course, but it gets mitigated a bit by this bonuses. Fat armor is also totally OK for me. Especially in the early game it's good to have high DR. Later on you might feel that you can do with a bit less.

 

Then, with Frenzy + max MIG and CON you will have an awesome fortitude defense and that's the best part. The most nasty disables target fortitude and you will be able to shrug most of them off. Did that with my barb, paralyzing attacks from skirmishers and lagufaeth didn't threaten me.

 

Once you reach lvl 11 you will take Heart of Fury. At that point your DEX doesn't matter at all for your DPS. You want to do as much damage per HIT as possible. This includes Vulnerable Attack, Frenzy and so on. You will kill a lot of foes with HoF, which triggers Bloodlust + Blood Thirst. You can then finish off the bystanders with max speed boost and maybe a Barbaric Blow.

 

So your stats are perfectly fine for a dual wielding barb. For a two hander he would be too slow. But with dual wielding it's OK.

 

My recommendation with max MIG and high INT is always Veteran's Recovery in order to become even sturdier than a fighter after some levels. Savage Defiance isxalso good and also Shod-in-Faith boots. As long as you get healed you will not go down. Your immense health pool will prevent death from health loss.

 

You can raise your stats only via items (permanently as long as you wear them) and consumables and spells/abilities (temporarily). There are some story talents that raise your stats as well, but it's not much, usually one point to MIG and such.

 

So in my opinion you don't need to retrain at all. Just keep on going. Attack speed is a bit overrated. It doesn't help you at all if you get knocked out or disabled. But that's just my opinion. I like my characters (at least the melee ones) sturdy enough so that they don't lie on their faces instead of attacking.

 

What difficulty level are you using?

Edited January 8, 2017 by Boeroer

[Braven]

I think the one stat everyone can agree with is that barbarians benefit a lot from intelligence (ironically).  It is needed to hit multiple enemies with carnage, which is the barbarians biggest strength.    It is also helpful for extending the duration of other core abilities like savage defiance and frenzy, and some talents.  The other stats you can go either way and be fine but low intelligence is a really bad idea with a barbarian.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Braven

[IamNOOB]

Thank you guys! You helped a lot. As much I enjoy this nice game I have to say that barbs using INT is kind of bad, I would even say kind of crazy. But I got used to it......

[Elric Galad]

"You're nothing compared to the brawns of my wizard !"

 

"I was so shy and unresolved that I decided to become a predicator. Yes, a ranged one."

 

"I am so stupid that I love poisons."

 

"My superior intellect is the reason why I like carnage so much."

 

Still a more interesting attribute system that most games.

My educated and smart fighter is really happy with it !

Edited January 9, 2017 by Elric Galad

[MaxQuest]

This attribute system is my favorite tbh.

 

It has one big flaw: attributes aren't really that realistic. And it is a low blow from immersion point of view.

 

But it makes up for this due to how deep this system turned out to be from optimization/powerbuilding perspective, with minimal score imbalance.

 

P.S. J.Sawyer explains here why attributes are as they are.

P.P.S. Anyone remembers the DA:2 attribute system? The abomination their curved gain was, plus weird and constantly shifting sweet points?

Edited January 9, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Braven]

Yeah, I like how the attributes scale evenly and that there are no "useless" stats, like in early editions of D&D.  Also, that it allows for a lot of different build possibilities.    I think it would be neat if attributes matches closer to what a class needs in reality, but that would reduce the build options down and create endless balance head-aches and new player confusion.

 

I think it would be fun if:

 

Low might penalized weapon/armor use.  Instead of outright banning specific weapons, maybe it just lowers attack speed and/or accuracy to reflect that the character has a hard time holding the weapon properly.  The required might to avoid a penalty various based on weapon type, and same with armor.  You could opt to hold a one-handed weapon with two-hands to avoid the penalty.  Heavier weapons could have higher base damage than weapons anyone can use without penalty.

 

Low intelligence could make it so cipher powers, wizard spells, and scrolls take longer to cast to reflect the character reading slowing and stumbling over words.

 

Low resolve could cause a character to lose hope if facing too many enemies (new despair affliction if engaged by X number of enemies).  The despair affliction can can also be caused if X number of allies are killed or disabled. Also adds a failure chance for priest, druid, and chanter spells.

 

Low constitution could lengthen the duration of physical afflictions the character is suffering from like poison, dazed, etc.

 

Low dexterity could add a chance for random mishaps during encounters.  For example, trip over your own feet and land prone for a couple seconds or dropping your weapon by accident, or your clumsiness hit an ally by mistake.

 

Low perception could require your character to wear glasses or suffer a new affliction ("poor vision", -10 accuracy/deflection/reflex, suppressed if you also have the blind affliction).  It is possible your glasses will break during a battle or get fogged up which would apply the affliction.  You also get a penalty for detecting traps/secrets (though this could be compensated with mechanics).

 

On the flip side, exceptionally high values could provide a small chance for an epic result at a related feat.  High dexterity could cause a Robin-Hood-like move with a bow and arrow or Prince of Persia acrobatics in melee.  Intelligence could cause a much better version of an ability or spell, complete with fanciful, unique graphics.  High might could cause an enemy to be cleaved in half.  Constitution could cause the character to deflect an affliction instantly and gain immunity to it for a short time.  Resolve could inspire a Gandalf-like "You shall not pass" animation and giving all nearby enemies "stuck" afflictions.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Braven

[IamNOOB]

"You're nothing compared to the brawns of my wizard !"

 

"I was so shy and unresolved that I decided to become a predicator. Yes, a ranged one."

 

"I am so stupid that I love poisons."

 

"My superior intellect is the reason why I like carnage so much."

 

Still a more interesting attribute system that most games.

My educated and smart fighter is really happy with it !

They can rename barbarians in that case. Call them university brawlers or warrior-professors and give them more INT based abilities. For example glasses strike [use your glasses as a weapon and use your biceps to shove them in your opponent's throat to suffocate him - deals raw damage]

[IamNOOB]

 P.s. do not hate me for this but in dragon age the attributes were exactly how I imagined them and they just didnt stand in the centre of the character while here I have to think: OMFG is it better to get a helm with constit. or with might <?? And later: omfg should I get 18 int or 14 for that dual wielding dwarf of mine, the guides say that blablabla. ...

 

Anyway topic closed, I am OK with my barbarian after retraining him based on the info you all shared here. So TY !

Edited January 10, 2017 by IamNOOB

[KDubya]

 P.s. do not hate me for this but in dragon age the attributes were exactly how I imagined them and they just didnt stand in the centre of the character while here I have to think: OMFG is it better to get a helm with constit. or with might <?? And later: omfg should I get 18 int or 14 for that dual wielding dwarf of mine, the guides say that blablabla. ...

 

Anyway topic closed, I am OK with my barbarian after retraining him based on the info you all shared here. So TY !

 

The stats in Dragon Age were exactly what you'd expect and thus had no bearing at all on how you built a character. It was obvious how you were to build them and there was no reason to deviate.

 

In Tyranny the stats are similar to Dragon Age in that they do only and exactly what you expect. Mages dump strength, warriors dump (or at least not pump) intellect and everyone pumps finesse for the accuracy and deflection boost to light armor. It is very predictable but makes for little variation in character builds.

 

In PoE there are lots of ways to build a character and the stats all do different but useful things. Building one way makes some aspects stronger as opposed to going another way with the stats, but all can be the "right" choice depending on what you want to do.

 

I really like the stat system in PoE and consider it the best I've ever come across in a game.

[JerekKruger]

In addition to what KDubya said, which I completely agree with, I think it's a bit strange that people can't accept an intelligent Barbarian. Howard's Conan, probably the first fantasy Barbarian, was no slouch in the brains department. It's only later that the trope of Barbarians as stupid but strong fighters that charge mindlessly at their enemies appeared. Even if you're drawing on the idea of a berzerker* there's nothing that says you have to be stupid.

 

My bigger problem with Barbarians is that, with very high Intellect, Carnage starts to feel a bit silly. The way I imagine Carnage is that Barbarian is making great sweeping blows (like D&D cleave attacks) which therefore hit other nearby targets. However when you're at really high Intellect you start hitting enemies behind you, or a long way behind your initial target, and the cleave idea starts to break down. Of course, as with most things in PoE you can explain this away with some sort of soul power: the Barbarian's blows are powered by his soul and that's what causes the AoE damage.

 

*There's actually very little evidence that berzerker's as we imagine them were a real thing in Norse culture. A theory I've heard is that the term actually refers to a champion of an important person, marked by wearing a bear pelt; not a warrior who works himself into a frothing rage before battle.

[PIP-Clownboy]

In addition to what KDubya said, which I completely agree with, I think it's a bit strange that people can't accept an intelligent Barbarian. Howard's Conan, probably the first fantasy Barbarian, was no slouch in the brains department. It's only later that the trope of Barbarians as stupid but strong fighters that charge mindlessly at their enemies appeared. Even if you're drawing on the idea of a berzerker* there's nothing that says you have to be stupid.

 

 

Also see: Logen Ninefingers (Bloody-Nine) from the First Law series. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by PIP-Clownboy

[JerekKruger]

Also see: Logen Ninefingers (Bloody-Nine) from the First Law series. 

 

 

Another good example. I loved those books.

[Gromnir]

In addition to what KDubya said, which I completely agree with, I think it's a bit strange that people can't accept an intelligent Barbarian.

seems to be confusion.  the problem with the barbarian ain't the possibility o' being smarty, but rather how poe makes smarty an essential barbarian quality. developers said multiple times how a goal o' poe would be abandoning class defining abilities and attributes.  carnage is 'bout as class defining as anything in d&d editions 1-3.5, and intelligence is inextricable linked to carnage.  so go ahead and make a barbarian in poe who ain't smarty.  you can do it, but you are clear handicapping self... which is antithetical to poe character development goals.

 

so when josh crows 'bout how you can play a smarty barbarian in poe, we can't help but think o' old mr. boffo.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited January 11, 2017 by Gromnir

[JerekKruger]

To quote the OP:

 

... I have to say that barbs using INT is kind of bad, I would even say kind of crazy. But I got used to it......

 

It might be a case of things getting lost in translation, but that sounds a lot like "Barbarians shouldn't use Intellect" to me.

 

As for Intellect being required for a Barbarian, I'd agree that it is perhaps the most obviously useful Attribute for the class, but you're not going to be gimping yourself that much if you went with, say, Intellect 10. Dumping your Intellect down to 3 is probably possible too, though you'll essentially be playing without Carnage and so the Barbarian will be rather different.

[Boeroer]

You can play with INT 3 and you will most of the time hit 3 foes at once if you don't flank but stand in the midst and enemies surround you. And you can also have +INT items which also will help a bit. But a lot of the barb's abilities are influenced by INT, for example Frenzy, Bloodlust, Savage & Stalwart Defiance, the yells and shouts and so on. Since most of those already have quite short durations dumping INT has a very noticeable effect and makes those ability less attractive.

Longer durations are a big plus if you have a barb - that's one reason why Spelltongue on a barb is so nice.

 

So it is true (for me) that INT is one of the most precious stats for a barb - and it feels weird sometimes. Not because all barbs should be dumb, but they don't have the reputation of being extraordinarily smart either.

 

But I still like PoE's stats system.

 

I have the same "problem" with fighters and monks by the way: can't make them without high INT.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Boeroer

[Gromnir]

To quote the OP:

 

... I have to say that barbs using INT is kind of bad, I would even say kind of crazy. But I got used to it......

 

It might be a case of things getting lost in translation, but that sounds a lot like "Barbarians shouldn't use Intellect" to me.

 

As for Intellect being required for a Barbarian, I'd agree that it is perhaps the most obviously useful Attribute for the class, but you're not going to be gimping yourself that much if you went with, say, Intellect 10. Dumping your Intellect down to 3 is probably possible too, though you'll essentially be playing without Carnage and so the Barbarian will be rather different.

disingenuous as josh.  you made a generalization 'bout "people." plural.  and your own suggested build in this thread? no  recommended build in this thread uses less than 15 for int.  so, let's be honest, yes?

 

and yeah, as Gromnir has noted elsewhere, the starting attributes is less important in poe than in most other crpgs.  that being said, josh (more than once) specific used a high intelligence barbarian as an example o' how a player can play against stereotype in poe.  regardless o' your personal notions, even the developers were tacit conceding that the norm for a barbarian would be other than a genius barbarian.  one need only look at this thread to recognizing how a genius barbarian is hardly a quirky-but-fun build.  in poe, the genius barbarian IS the norm.  as we observed earlier, you can play a low-intelligence barbarian, but you are clear working 'gainst the game mechanics by doing so. possible more than any other class in poe, the barbarian overwhelming benefits from a single ability and a single attribute.  is poor design considering the espoused poe development goals, and josh observation 'bout genius barbarians is backasswards given he is speaking direct 'bout how much freedom poe gives the player to create different and unique builds.  the poe genius barbarian is norm and not an example o' quirky unique.  in a game which boasts o' character generation options, it is more than passing strange how playing the barbarian crpg stereotype would actual be the challenging proposition.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited January 11, 2017 by Gromnir

[JerekKruger]

disingenuous as josh.  you made a generalization 'bout "people." plural.  and your own suggested build in this thread? no  recommended build in this thread uses less than 15 for int.  so, let's be honest, yes?

 

Fair point, I should have said "some people" - it's definitely not the first time I've seen someone talk about high Intellect making no sense for a Barbarian - but you're right that for many people the problem is more that it's just replacing one norm (dumb muscled brute) with another (intelligent low finesse brute) rather than giving allowing a new option.

 

I'd say the Obsidian came a lot closer than most (class based) CRPGs in achieving the "there are no bad stats" and "every class can benefit from every stat" objectives, but I agree that the Barbarian is one of the classes where this feels less true.

[Shadenuat]

It's true for many classes; you can't be wise and good healer without high Might (and dialogue options coming with that); a battle mage; a rogue who does high damage.

 

Thing is, as an example, PoE system means that you can't make a character that does a lot of damage because he is a master accurate deadly fencing rogue; you will always need high Might to keep up with other damage builds. As such we have high Might fighters, barbarians, rogues, wizards, priests, druids, whatever.

 

In my opinion, in that sense PoE system is not much better than d20 SRD/D&D or even worse; you can't replace your STR with CHA or DEX and call it a prestige or something, and make up a sensible in-world explanation how it works; everyone draws their damage from same source. Wizards, instead of drawing their damage from their skill with magic and thus being different than warriors also pump Might and so on. All ways of doing damage, including friggin guns, are tied to 1 attribute, and so characters become banal.