The US Election, Part XI

[Guard Dog]

 

The blame game is finally starting to take off

 

I find it sad and amusing at the same time

Why do you feel guilty? I told you  guys not to vote independent 

 

There are many reasons Trump won this election, do you want to know who I think needs to take the most responsibility ?

 

Do tell.

[Guard Dog]

Kudos to Rand Paul: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/rand-paul-john-bolton-totally-195153495.html

[Meshugger]

John Bolton is another Neocon who should not be anywhere near any power.

[BruceVC]

 

 

The blame game is finally starting to take off

 

I find it sad and amusing at the same time

Why do you feel guilty? I told you  guys not to vote independent 

 

There are many reasons Trump won this election, do you want to know who I think needs to take the most responsibility ?

 

Do tell.

 

I'm glad someone asked, I am a modest person and hate just making posts unless people ask 

 

Firstly this election was  a huge paradigm shift for me  and I have learnt some very important lessons about several societal issues. Also I stand by my support of Hilary and the Democrats but I also realize I was wrong about some of the things I thought about Trump, so I support him now as president but I'm not flip flopping just because he won.

 

 

This point is very complex and has a myriad of levels but I'll try to summarize it

 

 

Most of us firmly believe in  a world where we reject  historical bigotry and where we live in a society where we have equal opportunities to succeed. But that doesnt mean white men cannot express there opinion or somehow there views are ignored because of the history of the rise of the West

 

SJ in RL is important but it cannot be the only metric we use to determine value, for example during the election race every single night I would watch the numerous media networks and basically the conversation was always about some offensive comment Trump had made and how he was a real bigot....yet the discussion around political policy was basically neglected ...yet this was an election

 

I dont blame the media because I was also convinced debates about Trumps " build the wall " mattered more than anything else. Most debates about equality have got to a stage nowadays where a white males opinion is ignored because of the history of the modern  world and colonialism. For example I assumed every white person who didnt agree with the general SJ narrative was being a bigot or intentionally ignorant, this was because of my own history living in South Africa where I always hear generalizations about white people but we just ignore it because its meaningless and based on insecurity 

 

But what about a white person who is not a bigot but also doesn't necessarily understand or support the various SJ narratives we see nowadays.....he should be allowed to say " no I dont think I should be now called a racist just because Im not agreeing with how a certain group should be treated differently because of past injustice ". A white male should be able to disagree without the assumption he is a bigot

 

Throughout the world countries that offer there citizens the best quality of life and also have strong economies all support human rights and practice equality. Yet in many cases when the Europeans first came to  these countries they did exploit or kill much of the original inhabitants. I support understanding and addressing this imbalance but  a constant guilt trip on the descendants  of the original white settlers becomes unhelpful and can be abused

 

Western countries welcome immigrants yet in many cases we have ignored certain cases of refugees refusing to accept our values. For example the isolated but real incidents of some Muslims living in the UK  where they have no respect for white women yet are happy to accept the  social advantages of living in the UK is simply unacceptable...respect the values of Western countries or leave

 

What confused this US  election is the way the SJ lines were almost immediately drawn...anyone who wanted to support Trump was a bigot and all " normal and reasonable " people obviously supported Hilary. Of course Trump exacerbated this specious assumption by his comments so it was understandable most of us assumed things about him

 

But for example when Carson supported Trump it was considered inconceivable for most of us. And why should women have to lie when pollsters asked them who they would support? Clearly this is an aberration yet it was ignored 

 

The Obama legacy is  a good and reasonable initiative yet it is a socialist hybrid and in the context of the USA was seen as unpopular and intrusive by many. So despite its good intentions it  needs to be redesigned 

 

Now this doesn't mean I will be changing any of personal views on SJ and of course we musn't ignore real bigotry or discrimination but we ignore what normal white men\women are fearing or thinking we will end up with the current reality of the USA

 

We have no idea what his presidency will really mean so I want to wait and see. But we cannot ignore there are people supporting him who do believe in white supremacy yet they are just a part of his complex support structure. 

 

So going forward we need to recognize white men are allowed to have a voice and opinion, if this is dismissed we risk an outcome like we seeing in the USA which Im sure will be fine but was unpredictable 

[BruceVC]

John Bolton is another Neocon who should not be anywhere near any power.

True, well he was a Neocon...the Iraq invasion ended the Neocon rise to supremacy 

[redneckdevil]

 

 

Media......just die already. Your shooting urself in ur damn foot, **** I feel like u already blew off ur leg and now pulling a Cheney.

 

Can someone please explain the hate and backlash Trump is getting from A. Not accepting the presidential salary and B. Blowing up because he wanted to have a family dinner without the media.

 

Seriously, WTF is going on?!

Who you referring to when you say A and B?

A-time magazine, CNN, CBS with a less than min google search

B- right now seems like every liberal media is gnashing their teeth, and get this, this is the best part WHY they say they angry.....because they believe their job is to protect the president and can't if he doesn't let them know where he is.....

 

Like I said, media needs to die in fire right now. I need to start sending playdoo and color books to news anchors now it seems.

[Guard Dog]

Nice analysis Bruce but I think the election outcome had far less to do with Social Justice backlash and far more to do with economics than most folks realize. I've found Americans prioritize election issues in three tiers:

• National Security: If there is a threat (real or only perceived) the majority of voters will side with a candidate they think will address that threat. Everything else comes secondary to this. This got Truman, Eisenhower, Nixon, and Reagan elected and got George W Bush re-elected. Right now the country is relatively safe and relatively at peace so I don't think this was a big factor in 2016.
• Economy: After security comes the #1 kitchen table issue. This has very little to do with the stock markets. It has everything to do with the buying power of the average citizen which under any measure has decreased over the last five years. Voters are aware of the stock markets. And they are aware of the microscopic gains in GDP. But what really matters is "Can I pay my mortgage this month?" or "Can I afford to go to the grocery store today" and "Can I put money aside to help pay for the kids college". For far too many the answers are no. The Obama administration likes to point out it's job gains but replacing medium wage manufacturing jobs with lower wage service jobs does not make a gain for citizens earning less and being able to afford less. Couple that with Obama's errors on the ACA and the ballooning costs of health insurance that everyone MUST buy now and you got a real toxic porridge. Nearly 95M Americans are not working. Far more than the 4.9% unemployment would have u believe. The reason why is the Obama administration no longer counted people once their unemployment benefits ran out. They became what Orwell called un-persons. Jobs have been leaving the US ever since the late '90s. It reached critical mass a few years ago and while none of that is Obama (or Bush's) fault, they haven't done a thing about it either. The politicians talk a good game about training "the workers of tomorrow for the jobs of tomorrow" as Obama said in 2012 but noting ever happens and thing continue to get worse and worse for the average voter. Now comes Donald Trump promising to bring back the work and Hillary Clinton promising to raise taxes. Which would YOU vote for if you have a $1k mortgage payment due and only $500 in the bank? This is the kind of thing that got FDR, Kennedy, Johnson, George HW Bush,and Clinton elected and it got Reagan re-elected.
• Last but no least is everything else. When there is no imminent threat to national security and the economy is working then voters care about social issues.Then they care about punishing corruption and inequality. This got Carter elected and Nixon re-elected.

[Volourn]

I think the media wants to know where he is at all times so they can spam his location so some crazy can assassinate him. More than a few wackos have lost their job for threatening Trump already post election. They're lucky  that  that Obama is still president and won't have them investigated. He'd likjely pardon any assassin if they do  while he is still in office.

[BruceVC]

I think the media wants to know where he is at all times so they can spam his location so some crazy can assassinate him. More than a few wackos have lost their job for threatening Trump already post election. They're lucky  that  that Obama is still president and won't have them investigated. He'd likjely pardon any assassin if they do  while he is still in office.

volo can I ask you something, and I hope you dont think Im insulting you because some people will assume I am but I am not like that 

 

Do you take medication for any kind of mild mental ailment like bipolar or something similar? I know you use to people just ignoring these types  of posts but maybe this is what you really think about Obama?

 

Why would you think Obama would ignore an assassination attempt of any American?

[Malcador]

I think the media wants to know where he is at all times so they can spam his location so some crazy can assassinate him. More than a few wackos have lost their job for threatening Trump already post election. They're lucky that that Obama is still president and won't have them investigated. He'd likjely pardon any assassin if they do while he is still in office.

Yep, you should write for the Sun.

[Longknife]

My biggest concern moving forward actually isn't that we have Trump for the moment, but that the media and some individuals (luckily I don't feel it's a majority) don't seem to grasp what a dangerous tone they're setting for the nation.

I mean on one hand I didn't want Hillary to win because it'd set a precedent for future candidates to rig the Democratic primary or buy off the media. She didn't win, so cool, no precedent. On the other hand, it also should've been a learning experience about how you can't just function as blatant propaganda, you cannot show blatant disrespect for either political side, you cannot provide false narratives and you cannot just try and use a bad candidate as an opportunity to push an establishment one.

 

I honestly question if ANY lessons were learned. Talk of Tim Kaine as a potential 2020 candidate, that the media still seems to be on auto-pilot and can't find a better use of their time beyond...whining about Trump's dinner, the surprising amount of friends and contacts I have that seem to think USA is about to become Nazi Germany....I mean as I said, an old high school friend of mine that used to be pretty level-headed told me to stop mansplaining when I stated that "emails > LGBT" is a rather dishonest oversimplification seeing as how included in those emails were statements implying Clinton hates homosexuals. (and yes I agree she wouldn't act on that, merely wished to highlight oversimplifications accomplish nothing)

 

There's sooooo many people who seem to want to view Trump's victory as proof that people hate their minority group and want to kill them, when wtf no, go view the facts objectively. There were a number of reasons not to vote for Clinton and you've no proof people purposefully voted Trump specifically to spite your group. Such a ridiculous oversimplification is akin to if I said Obama voters hate babies and want humans to stop populating the earth and die off because he condones abortion.

 

Trump's presidency has plenty of potential to be terrible and questionable, but I continue to be amazed at how I'm constantly distracted by other problems that somehow manage to seem bigger. It's like the entirety of the USA is trying to out-terrible each other, and I legitimately think that some serious action needs to take place in regards to the media as of late, as I find it alarming I can't name a single mainstream media source that's credible anymore. Hell, I can't even name a secondary one that's widely known but not quite mainstream (Huffington post, TYT, Alex Jones) either; they're equally terrible. The media played a huge role in how terrible things got, but even today we see no shame and no sign of things changing for the better from them.

[Volourn]

"volo can I ask you something, and I hope you dont think Im insulting you because some people will assume I am but I am not like that 

 

Do you take medication for any kind of mild mental ailment like bipolar or something similar? I know you use to people just ignoring these types  of posts but maybe this is what you really think about Obama?"

 

You are an idiot.

 

 

 

"Why would you think Obama would ignore an assassination attempt of any American?"

 

Consdiering he has made it legal for him to assassinate an Amerikan without trial this isn't that far of a stretch.

[BruceVC]

"volo can I ask you something, and I hope you dont think Im insulting you because some people will assume I am but I am not like that 

 

Do you take medication for any kind of mild mental ailment like bipolar or something similar? I know you use to people just ignoring these types  of posts but maybe this is what you really think about Obama?"

 

You are an idiot.

 

 

 

"Why would you think Obama would ignore an assassination attempt of any American?"

 

Consdiering he has made it legal for him to assassinate an Amerikan without trial this isn't that far of a stretch.

Im just trying  to understand your view, what American are you referring to?

[BruceVC]

My biggest concern moving forward actually isn't that we have Trump for the moment, but that the media and some individuals (luckily I don't feel it's a majority) don't seem to grasp what a dangerous tone they're setting for the nation.

 

I mean on one hand I didn't want Hillary to win because it'd set a precedent for future candidates to rig the Democratic primary or buy off the media. She didn't win, so cool, no precedent. On the other hand, it also should've been a learning experience about how you can't just function as blatant propaganda, you cannot show blatant disrespect for either political side, you cannot provide false narratives and you cannot just try and use a bad candidate as an opportunity to push an establishment one.

 

I honestly question if ANY lessons were learned. Talk of Tim Kaine as a potential 2020 candidate, that the media still seems to be on auto-pilot and can't find a better use of their time beyond...whining about Trump's dinner, the surprising amount of friends and contacts I have that seem to think USA is about to become Nazi Germany....I mean as I said, an old high school friend of mine that used to be pretty level-headed told me to stop mansplaining when I stated that "emails > LGBT" is a rather dishonest oversimplification seeing as how included in those emails were statements implying Clinton hates homosexuals. (and yes I agree she wouldn't act on that, merely wished to highlight oversimplifications accomplish nothing)

 

There's sooooo many people who seem to want to view Trump's victory as proof that people hate their minority group and want to kill them, when wtf no, go view the facts objectively. There were a number of reasons not to vote for Clinton and you've no proof people purposefully voted Trump specifically to spite your group. Such a ridiculous oversimplification is akin to if I said Obama voters hate babies and want humans to stop populating the earth and die off because he condones abortion.

 

Trump's presidency has plenty of potential to be terrible and questionable, but I continue to be amazed at how I'm constantly distracted by other problems that somehow manage to seem bigger. It's like the entirety of the USA is trying to out-terrible each other, and I legitimately think that some serious action needs to take place in regards to the media as of late, as I find it alarming I can't name a single mainstream media source that's credible anymore. Hell, I can't even name a secondary one that's widely known but not quite mainstream (Huffington post, TYT, Alex Jones) either; they're equally terrible. The media played a huge role in how terrible things got, but even today we see no shame and no sign of things changing for the better from them.

LK your opinion on this election was that the results were basically rigged and that the Media were going to be instrumental in a Hilary victory. Others shared this sentiment 

 

After this result what do you now think?

[Guard Dog]

 

Consdiering he has made it legal for him to assassinate an Amerikan without trial this isn't that far of a stretch.

Well in all fairness he didn't actually make that legal. But his administration definitely did suggest it was or should be until they were called out for it.

[Guard Dog]

Bruce you may not realize it but Volo is a very smart guy. He is a just big fan of the Reductio ad absurdum argument: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

[BruceVC]

Bruce you may not realize it but Volo is a very smart guy. He is a just big fan of the Reductio ad absurdum argument: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

volo is this what you believe? 

[Malcador]

Nazism is at the root of all things.

 

Can't say I would jump on minorities too much if they are apprehensive at the moment. Not so much from Trump and whatever cranks he surrounds himself with, but does seem asshats feel emboldened now. That'll fade in a while, I feel, as they stand up to be rapped.

 

Even have that here, but more likely useless edgy suburb trash rather than outright bigots. Did spark a hilarious realization by some that...racism may always have been in Canada!

[BruceVC]

Nazism is at the root of all things.

 

Can't say I would jump on minorities too much if they are apprehensive at the moment. Not so much from Trump and whatever cranks he surrounds himself with, but does seem asshats feel emboldened now. That'll fade in a while, I feel, as they stand up to be rapped.

 

Even have that here, but more likely useless edgy suburb trash rather than outright bigots. Did spark a hilarious realization by some that...racism may always have been in Canada!

In Canada? That is a shock but we have to be specific, what type of racism....white supremacy, islamophobia, racist to black people etc.

[Guard Dog]

Good analysis: http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/11/16/democrats-know-why-they-lost-but-won-fix-their-problems/nITzuJIET6YBmxS2GV0J0O/story.html

[Guard Dog]

 

Nazism is at the root of all things.

 

Can't say I would jump on minorities too much if they are apprehensive at the moment. Not so much from Trump and whatever cranks he surrounds himself with, but does seem asshats feel emboldened now. That'll fade in a while, I feel, as they stand up to be rapped.

 

Even have that here, but more likely useless edgy suburb trash rather than outright bigots. Did spark a hilarious realization by some that...racism may always have been in Canada!

In Canada? That is a shock but we have to be specific, what type of racism....white supremacy, islamophobia, racist to black people etc.

 

  People who think curling isn't a real sport!

[Pidesco]

Also discrimination against law enforcement officers with fewer than 6 legs.

[Malcador]

 

 

Nazism is at the root of all things.

 

Can't say I would jump on minorities too much if they are apprehensive at the moment. Not so much from Trump and whatever cranks he surrounds himself with, but does seem asshats feel emboldened now. That'll fade in a while, I feel, as they stand up to be rapped.

 

Even have that here, but more likely useless edgy suburb trash rather than outright bigots. Did spark a hilarious realization by some that...racism may always have been in Canada!

In Canada? That is a shock but we have to be specific, what type of racism....white supremacy, islamophobia, racist to black people etc.

All of that. Also against Natives. Canadians have interesting delusions, I have noticed.

 

And no, curling isn't a real sport

[Gfted1]

Also against Natives.

Knock me over with a feather! For whatever reason, Ive never once considered that NA's would also be in Canada. Obviously things didn't go well in the US but whats the relationship with the Canadian government? Are there reservations in Canada too?

[Meshugger]

I think the media wants to know where he is at all times so they can spam his location so some crazy can assassinate him. More than a few wackos have lost their job for threatening Trump already post election. They're lucky  that  that Obama is still president and won't have them investigated. He'd likjely pardon any assassin if they do  while he is still in office.

 

This is eerie. I am thinking the same thing.