The US Election, Part XI

[BruceVC]

John Bolton is another Neocon who should not be anywhere near any power.

True, well he was a Neocon...the Iraq invasion ended the Neocon rise to supremacy 

[redneckdevil]

 

 

Media......just die already. Your shooting urself in ur damn foot, **** I feel like u already blew off ur leg and now pulling a Cheney.

 

Can someone please explain the hate and backlash Trump is getting from A. Not accepting the presidential salary and B. Blowing up because he wanted to have a family dinner without the media.

 

Seriously, WTF is going on?!

Who you referring to when you say A and B?

A-time magazine, CNN, CBS with a less than min google search

B- right now seems like every liberal media is gnashing their teeth, and get this, this is the best part WHY they say they angry.....because they believe their job is to protect the president and can't if he doesn't let them know where he is.....

 

Like I said, media needs to die in fire right now. I need to start sending playdoo and color books to news anchors now it seems.

[Guard Dog]

Nice analysis Bruce but I think the election outcome had far less to do with Social Justice backlash and far more to do with economics than most folks realize. I've found Americans prioritize election issues in three tiers:

• National Security: If there is a threat (real or only perceived) the majority of voters will side with a candidate they think will address that threat. Everything else comes secondary to this. This got Truman, Eisenhower, Nixon, and Reagan elected and got George W Bush re-elected. Right now the country is relatively safe and relatively at peace so I don't think this was a big factor in 2016.
• Economy: After security comes the #1 kitchen table issue. This has very little to do with the stock markets. It has everything to do with the buying power of the average citizen which under any measure has decreased over the last five years. Voters are aware of the stock markets. And they are aware of the microscopic gains in GDP. But what really matters is "Can I pay my mortgage this month?" or "Can I afford to go to the grocery store today" and "Can I put money aside to help pay for the kids college". For far too many the answers are no. The Obama administration likes to point out it's job gains but replacing medium wage manufacturing jobs with lower wage service jobs does not make a gain for citizens earning less and being able to afford less. Couple that with Obama's errors on the ACA and the ballooning costs of health insurance that everyone MUST buy now and you got a real toxic porridge. Nearly 95M Americans are not working. Far more than the 4.9% unemployment would have u believe. The reason why is the Obama administration no longer counted people once their unemployment benefits ran out. They became what Orwell called un-persons. Jobs have been leaving the US ever since the late '90s. It reached critical mass a few years ago and while none of that is Obama (or Bush's) fault, they haven't done a thing about it either. The politicians talk a good game about training "the workers of tomorrow for the jobs of tomorrow" as Obama said in 2012 but noting ever happens and thing continue to get worse and worse for the average voter. Now comes Donald Trump promising to bring back the work and Hillary Clinton promising to raise taxes. Which would YOU vote for if you have a $1k mortgage payment due and only $500 in the bank? This is the kind of thing that got FDR, Kennedy, Johnson, George HW Bush,and Clinton elected and it got Reagan re-elected.
• Last but no least is everything else. When there is no imminent threat to national security and the economy is working then voters care about social issues.Then they care about punishing corruption and inequality. This got Carter elected and Nixon re-elected.

[Volourn]

I think the media wants to know where he is at all times so they can spam his location so some crazy can assassinate him. More than a few wackos have lost their job for threatening Trump already post election. They're lucky  that  that Obama is still president and won't have them investigated. He'd likjely pardon any assassin if they do  while he is still in office.

[BruceVC]

I think the media wants to know where he is at all times so they can spam his location so some crazy can assassinate him. More than a few wackos have lost their job for threatening Trump already post election. They're lucky  that  that Obama is still president and won't have them investigated. He'd likjely pardon any assassin if they do  while he is still in office.

volo can I ask you something, and I hope you dont think Im insulting you because some people will assume I am but I am not like that 

 

Do you take medication for any kind of mild mental ailment like bipolar or something similar? I know you use to people just ignoring these types  of posts but maybe this is what you really think about Obama?

 

Why would you think Obama would ignore an assassination attempt of any American?

[Malcador]

I think the media wants to know where he is at all times so they can spam his location so some crazy can assassinate him. More than a few wackos have lost their job for threatening Trump already post election. They're lucky that that Obama is still president and won't have them investigated. He'd likjely pardon any assassin if they do while he is still in office.

Yep, you should write for the Sun.

[Longknife]

My biggest concern moving forward actually isn't that we have Trump for the moment, but that the media and some individuals (luckily I don't feel it's a majority) don't seem to grasp what a dangerous tone they're setting for the nation.

I mean on one hand I didn't want Hillary to win because it'd set a precedent for future candidates to rig the Democratic primary or buy off the media. She didn't win, so cool, no precedent. On the other hand, it also should've been a learning experience about how you can't just function as blatant propaganda, you cannot show blatant disrespect for either political side, you cannot provide false narratives and you cannot just try and use a bad candidate as an opportunity to push an establishment one.

 

I honestly question if ANY lessons were learned. Talk of Tim Kaine as a potential 2020 candidate, that the media still seems to be on auto-pilot and can't find a better use of their time beyond...whining about Trump's dinner, the surprising amount of friends and contacts I have that seem to think USA is about to become Nazi Germany....I mean as I said, an old high school friend of mine that used to be pretty level-headed told me to stop mansplaining when I stated that "emails > LGBT" is a rather dishonest oversimplification seeing as how included in those emails were statements implying Clinton hates homosexuals. (and yes I agree she wouldn't act on that, merely wished to highlight oversimplifications accomplish nothing)

 

There's sooooo many people who seem to want to view Trump's victory as proof that people hate their minority group and want to kill them, when wtf no, go view the facts objectively. There were a number of reasons not to vote for Clinton and you've no proof people purposefully voted Trump specifically to spite your group. Such a ridiculous oversimplification is akin to if I said Obama voters hate babies and want humans to stop populating the earth and die off because he condones abortion.

 

Trump's presidency has plenty of potential to be terrible and questionable, but I continue to be amazed at how I'm constantly distracted by other problems that somehow manage to seem bigger. It's like the entirety of the USA is trying to out-terrible each other, and I legitimately think that some serious action needs to take place in regards to the media as of late, as I find it alarming I can't name a single mainstream media source that's credible anymore. Hell, I can't even name a secondary one that's widely known but not quite mainstream (Huffington post, TYT, Alex Jones) either; they're equally terrible. The media played a huge role in how terrible things got, but even today we see no shame and no sign of things changing for the better from them.

[Volourn]

"volo can I ask you something, and I hope you dont think Im insulting you because some people will assume I am but I am not like that 

 

Do you take medication for any kind of mild mental ailment like bipolar or something similar? I know you use to people just ignoring these types  of posts but maybe this is what you really think about Obama?"

 

You are an idiot.

 

 

 

"Why would you think Obama would ignore an assassination attempt of any American?"

 

Consdiering he has made it legal for him to assassinate an Amerikan without trial this isn't that far of a stretch.

[BruceVC]

"volo can I ask you something, and I hope you dont think Im insulting you because some people will assume I am but I am not like that 

 

Do you take medication for any kind of mild mental ailment like bipolar or something similar? I know you use to people just ignoring these types  of posts but maybe this is what you really think about Obama?"

 

You are an idiot.

 

 

 

"Why would you think Obama would ignore an assassination attempt of any American?"

 

Consdiering he has made it legal for him to assassinate an Amerikan without trial this isn't that far of a stretch.

Im just trying  to understand your view, what American are you referring to?

[BruceVC]

My biggest concern moving forward actually isn't that we have Trump for the moment, but that the media and some individuals (luckily I don't feel it's a majority) don't seem to grasp what a dangerous tone they're setting for the nation.

 

I mean on one hand I didn't want Hillary to win because it'd set a precedent for future candidates to rig the Democratic primary or buy off the media. She didn't win, so cool, no precedent. On the other hand, it also should've been a learning experience about how you can't just function as blatant propaganda, you cannot show blatant disrespect for either political side, you cannot provide false narratives and you cannot just try and use a bad candidate as an opportunity to push an establishment one.

 

I honestly question if ANY lessons were learned. Talk of Tim Kaine as a potential 2020 candidate, that the media still seems to be on auto-pilot and can't find a better use of their time beyond...whining about Trump's dinner, the surprising amount of friends and contacts I have that seem to think USA is about to become Nazi Germany....I mean as I said, an old high school friend of mine that used to be pretty level-headed told me to stop mansplaining when I stated that "emails > LGBT" is a rather dishonest oversimplification seeing as how included in those emails were statements implying Clinton hates homosexuals. (and yes I agree she wouldn't act on that, merely wished to highlight oversimplifications accomplish nothing)

 

There's sooooo many people who seem to want to view Trump's victory as proof that people hate their minority group and want to kill them, when wtf no, go view the facts objectively. There were a number of reasons not to vote for Clinton and you've no proof people purposefully voted Trump specifically to spite your group. Such a ridiculous oversimplification is akin to if I said Obama voters hate babies and want humans to stop populating the earth and die off because he condones abortion.

 

Trump's presidency has plenty of potential to be terrible and questionable, but I continue to be amazed at how I'm constantly distracted by other problems that somehow manage to seem bigger. It's like the entirety of the USA is trying to out-terrible each other, and I legitimately think that some serious action needs to take place in regards to the media as of late, as I find it alarming I can't name a single mainstream media source that's credible anymore. Hell, I can't even name a secondary one that's widely known but not quite mainstream (Huffington post, TYT, Alex Jones) either; they're equally terrible. The media played a huge role in how terrible things got, but even today we see no shame and no sign of things changing for the better from them.

LK your opinion on this election was that the results were basically rigged and that the Media were going to be instrumental in a Hilary victory. Others shared this sentiment 

 

After this result what do you now think?

[Guard Dog]

 

Consdiering he has made it legal for him to assassinate an Amerikan without trial this isn't that far of a stretch.

Well in all fairness he didn't actually make that legal. But his administration definitely did suggest it was or should be until they were called out for it.

[Guard Dog]

Bruce you may not realize it but Volo is a very smart guy. He is a just big fan of the Reductio ad absurdum argument: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

[BruceVC]

Bruce you may not realize it but Volo is a very smart guy. He is a just big fan of the Reductio ad absurdum argument: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

volo is this what you believe? 

[Malcador]

Nazism is at the root of all things.

 

Can't say I would jump on minorities too much if they are apprehensive at the moment. Not so much from Trump and whatever cranks he surrounds himself with, but does seem asshats feel emboldened now. That'll fade in a while, I feel, as they stand up to be rapped.

 

Even have that here, but more likely useless edgy suburb trash rather than outright bigots. Did spark a hilarious realization by some that...racism may always have been in Canada!

[BruceVC]

Nazism is at the root of all things.

 

Can't say I would jump on minorities too much if they are apprehensive at the moment. Not so much from Trump and whatever cranks he surrounds himself with, but does seem asshats feel emboldened now. That'll fade in a while, I feel, as they stand up to be rapped.

 

Even have that here, but more likely useless edgy suburb trash rather than outright bigots. Did spark a hilarious realization by some that...racism may always have been in Canada!

In Canada? That is a shock but we have to be specific, what type of racism....white supremacy, islamophobia, racist to black people etc.

[Guard Dog]

Good analysis: http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/11/16/democrats-know-why-they-lost-but-won-fix-their-problems/nITzuJIET6YBmxS2GV0J0O/story.html

[Guard Dog]

 

Nazism is at the root of all things.

 

Can't say I would jump on minorities too much if they are apprehensive at the moment. Not so much from Trump and whatever cranks he surrounds himself with, but does seem asshats feel emboldened now. That'll fade in a while, I feel, as they stand up to be rapped.

 

Even have that here, but more likely useless edgy suburb trash rather than outright bigots. Did spark a hilarious realization by some that...racism may always have been in Canada!

In Canada? That is a shock but we have to be specific, what type of racism....white supremacy, islamophobia, racist to black people etc.

 

  People who think curling isn't a real sport!

[Pidesco]

Also discrimination against law enforcement officers with fewer than 6 legs.

[Malcador]

 

 

Nazism is at the root of all things.

 

Can't say I would jump on minorities too much if they are apprehensive at the moment. Not so much from Trump and whatever cranks he surrounds himself with, but does seem asshats feel emboldened now. That'll fade in a while, I feel, as they stand up to be rapped.

 

Even have that here, but more likely useless edgy suburb trash rather than outright bigots. Did spark a hilarious realization by some that...racism may always have been in Canada!

In Canada? That is a shock but we have to be specific, what type of racism....white supremacy, islamophobia, racist to black people etc.

All of that. Also against Natives. Canadians have interesting delusions, I have noticed.

 

And no, curling isn't a real sport

[Gfted1]

Also against Natives.

Knock me over with a feather! For whatever reason, Ive never once considered that NA's would also be in Canada. Obviously things didn't go well in the US but whats the relationship with the Canadian government? Are there reservations in Canada too?

[Meshugger]

I think the media wants to know where he is at all times so they can spam his location so some crazy can assassinate him. More than a few wackos have lost their job for threatening Trump already post election. They're lucky  that  that Obama is still president and won't have them investigated. He'd likjely pardon any assassin if they do  while he is still in office.

 

This is eerie. I am thinking the same thing.

[BruceVC]

 

I think the media wants to know where he is at all times so they can spam his location so some crazy can assassinate him. More than a few wackos have lost their job for threatening Trump already post election. They're lucky  that  that Obama is still president and won't have them investigated. He'd likjely pardon any assassin if they do  while he is still in office.

 

This is eerie. I am thinking the same thing.

 

Okay so what is your reason for this type of inexplicable thinking?  A mild psychosis or just irrational fear that the " Muricans may invade Finland "  ?

[Longknife]

 

My biggest concern moving forward actually isn't that we have Trump for the moment, but that the media and some individuals (luckily I don't feel it's a majority) don't seem to grasp what a dangerous tone they're setting for the nation.

 

I mean on one hand I didn't want Hillary to win because it'd set a precedent for future candidates to rig the Democratic primary or buy off the media. She didn't win, so cool, no precedent. On the other hand, it also should've been a learning experience about how you can't just function as blatant propaganda, you cannot show blatant disrespect for either political side, you cannot provide false narratives and you cannot just try and use a bad candidate as an opportunity to push an establishment one.

 

I honestly question if ANY lessons were learned. Talk of Tim Kaine as a potential 2020 candidate, that the media still seems to be on auto-pilot and can't find a better use of their time beyond...whining about Trump's dinner, the surprising amount of friends and contacts I have that seem to think USA is about to become Nazi Germany....I mean as I said, an old high school friend of mine that used to be pretty level-headed told me to stop mansplaining when I stated that "emails > LGBT" is a rather dishonest oversimplification seeing as how included in those emails were statements implying Clinton hates homosexuals. (and yes I agree she wouldn't act on that, merely wished to highlight oversimplifications accomplish nothing)

 

There's sooooo many people who seem to want to view Trump's victory as proof that people hate their minority group and want to kill them, when wtf no, go view the facts objectively. There were a number of reasons not to vote for Clinton and you've no proof people purposefully voted Trump specifically to spite your group. Such a ridiculous oversimplification is akin to if I said Obama voters hate babies and want humans to stop populating the earth and die off because he condones abortion.

 

Trump's presidency has plenty of potential to be terrible and questionable, but I continue to be amazed at how I'm constantly distracted by other problems that somehow manage to seem bigger. It's like the entirety of the USA is trying to out-terrible each other, and I legitimately think that some serious action needs to take place in regards to the media as of late, as I find it alarming I can't name a single mainstream media source that's credible anymore. Hell, I can't even name a secondary one that's widely known but not quite mainstream (Huffington post, TYT, Alex Jones) either; they're equally terrible. The media played a huge role in how terrible things got, but even today we see no shame and no sign of things changing for the better from them.

LK your opinion on this election was that the results were basically rigged and that the Media were going to be instrumental in a Hilary victory. Others shared this sentiment 

 

After this result what do you now think?

 

 

 

Well we still have hard evidence she rigged the Democratic Primary (or allowed others to do it for her). I'm glad she didn't rig the presidential election, but at the same time speaking more pragmatically, I'm amazed these people rigged the Democratic Primary and couldn't grasp that if you fix the Democratic primary, you probably have to be ready to do the same for the main election or you won't like the results. While it let's me breathe a sigh of relief in the sense perhaps fixing the election is far harder than we've been led to believe (the 2000 election was very suspect, for example, and I think it gave many Americans the belief that yes numbers get fudged regularly), it also gives me a new kind of stress in that I do find it a tad alarming the Clinton campaign could be that incompetent.  As I said, I'm glad it wasn't rigged, but I would also hope people running for president are intelligent and can grasp basic concepts such as that.

 

The media continues to be problematic, and one has to wonder why. Are they just on auto-pilot? Are they answering to George Soros or something? It's nothing but propaganda at this point to instill hate, and that's exactly what we don't need. The only one not acting as anti-Trump propaganda is FOX News, which has always been propaganda for the right anyways.

 

To me, this election was a lesson in respect. I would be quick to agree that Trump is the worst, least qualified presidential candidate the USA has ever had, but that does not give people a license to be hateful towards the entire Republican party. People thought it did, and look what that got them. THAT'S the lesson. Some people don't get this, but I feel people succumb to mob mentality and the like, so I'm less critical of them. The media, I'm highly critical of them because they're the guys that can spark mob mentality in the first place. Based on what I've read, mainstream media lost 40% of it's viewership in 2015, so I suspect they're desperate to stay afloat. Perhaps in their desperation, they're no longer interested in serving the interests of the people, but rather the interests of the highest bidder. Perhaps the goal isn't to increase viewership and thus gain ad revenue, but rather to suit the narrative of a wealthy donor who will continue to provide for them so long as they continue to suit his narrative. That would be extremely dangerous, and I'd hope we could come up with a way to address this problem without having to come dangerously close to something akin to censorship.

 

 

What's crazy to me is and a reason I was so critical of Clinton is because her campaign crossed multiple lines for me. For me, it was never about Clinton vs. Trump, it was about the precedent of future elections. Before Clinton, I never had to worry that users online were paid shills that were paid to present this idea that there's tons of pro-Clinton supporters out there and that any discussion with them was just arguing in bad faith. Before this, I'd never find myself questioning if my online partner in discussion was sincere or if they were paid, and what that ultimately resulted in was a LOT less discussion of issues because nobody knew when their discussion was in good faith or a blatant waste of time.

 

Before Clinton's campaign, anything I've learned from Wikileaks would've been something I referred to as a conspiracy theory. Great example, there's currently a theory out there painting George Soros as a Bond Villain who purposefully creates unrest in countries - particularly USA and Russia - so that he can play it to his own advantage. Think Peter Baelish from Game of Thrones using chaos as a ladder. That's George Soros, and while parts of that theory I saw sound absolutely crazy and absurd, I actually find myself in a position where based on what I have seen, I now have to afford such a theory the time of day and question if it's true or not.

 

Her campaign is over now, but the remaining problems seem to be the media and potentially George Soros. As I said I've no idea why the hell the media continues to run on auto-pilot with such a blatant bias against Trump and in favor of the democratic party (and of course not all Democrats. Only the ones the establishment likes or considers beneficial), but it's a problem all the same. I do NOT see them fixing that problem either, as I get the impression their paycheck now more or less comes entirely from some establishment millionaire rather than viewership, so they've no motivation to change.

 

 

On that note? Sad that Jon Stewart is no longer on air. I remember one Wikileaks email implicating Colbert took some money from Clinton's campaign, and sure enough even comedy central shows have become very very slanted. Jon Stewart however said this, which is one of the better summaries I've seen of this election and the problems that remain:

 

[BruceVC]

 

 

Nazism is at the root of all things.

 

Can't say I would jump on minorities too much if they are apprehensive at the moment. Not so much from Trump and whatever cranks he surrounds himself with, but does seem asshats feel emboldened now. That'll fade in a while, I feel, as they stand up to be rapped.

 

Even have that here, but more likely useless edgy suburb trash rather than outright bigots. Did spark a hilarious realization by some that...racism may always have been in Canada!

In Canada? That is a shock but we have to be specific, what type of racism....white supremacy, islamophobia, racist to black people etc.

All of that. Also against Natives. Canadians have interesting delusions, I have noticed.

 

And no, curling isn't a real sport

 

I have to say coming from Canada that is even more disappointing

 

I am well aware that anywhere in the world where white people are dominant there will always be small groups within those white communities that are racist or display bigotry

 

And the strange thing is white people are historically the least most discriminated demographic group in the world

 

In SA sometimes a black person  thinks they will offend white people by comparing us to something that is not at  all insulting...for example some black people think the worst thing to call a white person is a comparison to Hitler not realizing only some Jewish people would get offended by that

 

 http://synapses.co.za/mcebo-dlaminis-free-speech-love-hitler/

[Fighter]

Only Jewish people get offended at being compared to a genocidal racist?