[3.04] enemies becoming weaker upon a reload?

[thelee]

I just noticed that the first time my character entered Stalwart Village, the first Crag Ogre would have a ~ -30 accuracy adjustment. If I fail and I reload the autosave upon entering Stalwart village, the first Crag Ogre instead has a ~ -70 accuracy adjustment. Nothing else changes; I'm on Path of the Damned (no high-level scaling, I'm going in at level 8 ), but it appears that consistently enemies appear to be weaker upon that reload. It's like some difficulty scaling adjustment is being lost.

 

Don't know how long this issue has been around, might not be 3.04-specific. If it's been around for a while, I wonder if my earlier playthroughs have been a bit too easy?

 

Drop box link containing output log and two saves: one before leaving for stalwart village and one that is the autosave upon entering stalwart village: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lma6iju9g1cmj8s/AAD9S992cLJmnMwRm3OhrcJha?dl=0 (yes, I save scum my trial of iron attempts; it's how I protect myself against being screwed over by bugs, which has happened more times than I would like)

 

Steps to reproduce:

1. load the save game in Caed Nua

2. go to stalwart village

3. get attacked by the first Crag Ogre, observe their accuracy

4. exit to main menu and 'continue' (which will select the stalwart village autosave that got created)

5. get attacked by the first Crag Ogre, observe their significantly reduced accuracy

 

Anyways, I hope you guys still have sufficient dev resources for further Pillars patching. Looking forward to Tyranny, though!

Edited November 5, 2016 by thelee

[thelee]

Also, while I can't *prove* it, it seems like the Crag Ogre also has less health after the reload.

[thelee]

Note that it's not just the first Crag Ogre. Other enemies in the fight also become weaker (notably the Crag Ogre Cannoneer post game reload has ~ -80 accuracy adjustment, which makes successive attempts much easier than the original load).

[Merany]

If this one is confirmed, it's seriously annoying... I stopped a PotD playthrough right in the middle because of a similar issue that was making enemies stronger in 3.02... Don' want to do that again...

If you guys are working on PoE2, I hope you're making a big overhaul of the save system...

[Jojobobo]

Maybe the game reverts to an easier difficulty when you load the autosave. I think I have seen this before (pre-3.03 even), which is why I'm wary about my Stalwart initial saves - I usually start the area afresh if I fail from a save outside of Stalwart. Not sure if the difficult drop applies jsut to Stalwart or the subsequent maps.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Xaratas]

Its not based on quicksave/ quickload, thats new for a savesystem breakage. There were some scaling bugs on quicksave, but those should be long fixed.

[Thunker]

Really ? Damn... Come on guys ! Why you can't do a correct patch !?!

[Infinitron]

40 points? Path of the Damned doesn't buff enemies that much.

[Thunker]

So... It's a real  bug from the patch or not ?

[Phenomenum]

I'm on beta 3.04 and i can confirm this bug. I've tried your save - initial acc for first pack of ogres was 78. After reload, ogres have 28 acc.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Phenomenum

[Infinitron]

That's an insane debuff. Is it switching to Story Time mode?

[Phenomenum]

"That's an insane debuff. Is it switching to Story Time mode?" - i don't know yet...becose if i beat those ogres, and load next autosave, next pack of ogres have acc 87... It's strange, but it's definitely not right. Needs more testing, from all of us.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Phenomenum

[thelee]

"That's an insane debuff. Is it switching to Story Time mode?" - i don't know yet...becose if i beat those ogres, and load next autosave, next pack of ogres have acc 87... It's strange, but it's definitely not right. Needs more testing, from all of us.

 

Yeah, I attempted Stalwart Village several times, and it appears that *some* Ogres get debuffed.

 

I generally go like this:

1. First crag ogre

2. Sneak around the fence, up the stairs, towards the west part of the map, fight the crag ogre cannoneer.

3. Double-back and fight the winter wolf and crag ogre hiding in front of the normal ramp to exit to durgan's battery.

4. Go all the way to the left and down and start kiting everyone around Drazir.

 

#1, #2, and #3 definitely get weaker upon a reload. Some of the ogres in #4 get weaker, but notably the cannoneer is still tough. This is all in one attempt though, so I don't know if saving/loading again refresh or change the stats around.

Edited November 7, 2016 by thelee

[Phenomenum]

"that *some* Ogres get debuffed" - and some buffed. First ogres pack have acc 77-78, second pack (to the west) have 86-87 acc. How so? It's the same ogres...

[Sking]

,

 

So... I've been able to reproduce this but! Only in the Stalwart ogre attack scene. I've been checking other scenes like this one (awkward combats after FMVs, transitions, SIs, etc..) and cannot find another case.

 

There is an Accuracy lose in some Ogres (four or five) after loading the auto-save. Though it seems those same Ogres have an insane Endurance boost. The difficulty should be preserved however, because all Ogres in the Drazir party seem to be complete.

 

I'm definitely going to give this some more love, but as it stands I can't see us taking an immediate action (hot fix). Going to bring it up to the decision makers though, and see what they think.

 

I got your backs

- Sking

 

P.S. There is a debug command 'ToggleCharacterStatsDebug' that will show NPC stats when you mouse over them. Careful with this command, it will be 'ON' until you restart the client.

 

[Edit] Keep on the look out for other scenes. If this is a more global issue we may address it.

[Phenomenum]

"I'm definitely going to give this some more love, but as it stands I can't see us taking an immediate action (hot fix). Going to bring it up to the decision makers though, and see what they think" - i imagine that whole programmers went to do Tyranny or PoE2, and leave few of mans patching this old game, and you do as your best. I respect you, sinserelly, but...if i saw enormous stats in one scene, how can i be sure about other mobs? Should i check all scenes, to be sure?

[Phenomenum]

I don't know, how you jokin' about this, but there is a meme called "indian code" in Russia - It means bad and twisted code.

 

[Jojobobo]

,

 

So... I've been able to reproduce this but! Only in the Stalwart ogre attack scene. I've been checking other scenes like this one (awkward combats after FMVs, transitions, SIs, etc..) and cannot find another case.

 

There is an Accuracy lose in some Ogres (four or five) after loading the auto-save. Though it seems those same Ogres have an insane Endurance boost. The difficulty should be preserved however, because all Ogres in the Drazir party seem to be complete.

 

I'm definitely going to give this some more love, but as it stands I can't see us taking an immediate action (hot fix). Going to bring it up to the decision makers though, and see what they think.

 

I got your backs

- Sking

 

P.S. There is a debug command 'ToggleCharacterStatsDebug' that will show NPC stats when you mouse over them. Careful with this command, it will be 'ON' until you restart the client.

Good to know you tried, and if it's localised to the Stalwart fight it's not a huge problem. I guess hotfixes should really be reserved for something entirely game-breaking, which this really doesn't seem to be. In any case, thanks!

[thelee]

,

 

So... I've been able to reproduce this but! Only in the Stalwart ogre attack scene. I've been checking other scenes like this one (awkward combats after FMVs, transitions, SIs, etc..) and cannot find another case.

 

There is an Accuracy lose in some Ogres (four or five) after loading the auto-save. Though it seems those same Ogres have an insane Endurance boost. The difficulty should be preserved however, because all Ogres in the Drazir party seem to be complete.

 

I'm definitely going to give this some more love, but as it stands I can't see us taking an immediate action (hot fix). Going to bring it up to the decision makers though, and see what they think.

 

I got your backs

- Sking

 

P.S. There is a debug command 'ToggleCharacterStatsDebug' that will show NPC stats when you mouse over them. Careful with this command, it will be 'ON' until you restart the client.

 

[Edit] Keep on the look out for other scenes. If this is a more global issue we may address it.

 

Thanks for this. Is there any idea what the root cause is? I'm guessing it's some interaction with the autosave taking place right *before* the narration?

[Thunker]

So, all ennemis in the game going weaker ?

[Boeroer]

No

[Thunker]

Witch one ?

[Boeroer]

Sking said it in his posting you quoted: so far only the Ogres in the initial fight in Stalwart seem to be affected.

[Sking]

Instead of attempting to retell the story of this bug as told by our programmers I'll just summarize. The game is saving before the scene has finished loading causing the mobs stats to be left behind. The good news is that it looks like we are going to squeeze in a hotfix for this issue plus one more (oh the mystery.) I'll post an update once I have all the information.

 

AmA plug (Reddit Link). Obsidian is doing a 'as me anything' on Reddit. Go ask my bosses questions!

 

We will get through this, you and I

- Sking

[AndreaColombo]

Amazing news!

[Jojobobo]

Nice work on a hotfix! As I mentioned, I didn't necessarily think it deserved one in the first place, but it's great you're putting the effort in.