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[3.04] enemies becoming weaker upon a reload?

thelee

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thelee

thelee

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Posted (edited)

I just noticed that the first time my character entered Stalwart Village, the first Crag Ogre would have a ~ -30 accuracy adjustment. If I fail and I reload the autosave upon entering Stalwart village, the first Crag Ogre instead has a ~ -70 accuracy adjustment. Nothing else changes; I'm on Path of the Damned (no high-level scaling, I'm going in at level 8 ), but it appears that consistently enemies appear to be weaker upon that reload. It's like some difficulty scaling adjustment is being lost.

 

Don't know how long this issue has been around, might not be 3.04-specific. If it's been around for a while, I wonder if my earlier playthroughs have been a bit too easy?

 

Drop box link containing output log and two saves: one before leaving for stalwart village and one that is the autosave upon entering stalwart village: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lma6iju9g1cmj8s/AAD9S992cLJmnMwRm3OhrcJha?dl=0 (yes, I save scum my trial of iron attempts; it's how I protect myself against being screwed over by bugs, which has happened more times than I would like)

 

Steps to reproduce:

1. load the save game in Caed Nua

2. go to stalwart village

3. get attacked by the first Crag Ogre, observe their accuracy

4. exit to main menu and 'continue' (which will select the stalwart village autosave that got created)

5. get attacked by the first Crag Ogre, observe their significantly reduced accuracy

 

Anyways, I hope you guys still have sufficient dev resources for further Pillars patching. Looking forward to Tyranny, though!

Edited by thelee

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thelee

thelee

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Note that it's not just the first Crag Ogre. Other enemies in the fight also become weaker (notably the Crag Ogre Cannoneer post game reload has ~ -80 accuracy adjustment, which makes successive attempts much easier than the original load).

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Merany

Merany

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Posted

If this one is confirmed, it's seriously annoying... I stopped a PotD playthrough right in the middle because of a similar issue that was making enemies stronger in 3.02... Don' want to do that again...

If you guys are working on PoE2, I hope you're making a big overhaul of the save system...

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Jojobobo

Jojobobo

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Posted (edited)

Maybe the game reverts to an easier difficulty when you load the autosave. I think I have seen this before (pre-3.03 even), which is why I'm wary about my Stalwart initial saves - I usually start the area afresh if I fail from a save outside of Stalwart. Not sure if the difficult drop applies jsut to Stalwart or the subsequent maps.

Edited by Jojobobo
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Phenomenum

Phenomenum

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"That's an insane debuff. Is it switching to Story Time mode?" - i don't know yet...becose if i beat those ogres, and load next autosave, next pack of ogres have acc 87... It's strange, but it's definitely not right. Needs more testing, from all of us.

Edited by Phenomenum
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thelee

thelee

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"That's an insane debuff. Is it switching to Story Time mode?" - i don't know yet...becose if i beat those ogres, and load next autosave, next pack of ogres have acc 87... It's strange, but it's definitely not right. Needs more testing, from all of us.

 

Yeah, I attempted Stalwart Village several times, and it appears that *some* Ogres get debuffed.

 

I generally go like this:

1. First crag ogre

2. Sneak around the fence, up the stairs, towards the west part of the map, fight the crag ogre cannoneer.

3. Double-back and fight the winter wolf and crag ogre hiding in front of the normal ramp to exit to durgan's battery.

4. Go all the way to the left and down and start kiting everyone around Drazir.

 

#1, #2, and #3 definitely get weaker upon a reload. Some of the ogres in #4 get weaker, but notably the cannoneer is still tough. This is all in one attempt though, so I don't know if saving/loading again refresh or change the stats around.

Edited by thelee
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Sking

Sking

Posted
Posted

:(,

 

So... I've been able to reproduce this but! Only in the Stalwart ogre attack scene. I've been checking other scenes like this one (awkward combats after FMVs, transitions, SIs, etc..) and cannot find another case.

 

There is an Accuracy lose in some Ogres (four or five) after loading the auto-save. Though it seems those same Ogres have an insane Endurance boost. The difficulty should be preserved however, because all Ogres in the Drazir party seem to be complete.

 

I'm definitely going to give this some more love, but as it stands I can't see us taking an immediate action (hot fix). Going to bring it up to the decision makers though, and see what they think.

 

I got your backs

- Sking

 

P.S. There is a debug command 'ToggleCharacterStatsDebug' that will show NPC stats when you mouse over them. Careful with this command, it will be 'ON' until you restart the client.

 

[Edit] Keep on the look out for other scenes. If this is a more global issue we may address it.

  • Like 3
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Phenomenum

Phenomenum

Posted
Posted

"I'm definitely going to give this some more love, but as it stands I can't see us taking an immediate action (hot fix). Going to bring it up to the decision makers though, and see what they think" - i imagine that whole programmers went to do Tyranny or PoE2, and leave few of mans patching this old game, and you do as your best. I respect you, sinserelly, but...if i saw enormous stats in one scene, how can i be sure about other mobs? Should i check all scenes, to be sure?

  • 0
Jojobobo

Jojobobo

Posted
Posted

:(,

 

So... I've been able to reproduce this but! Only in the Stalwart ogre attack scene. I've been checking other scenes like this one (awkward combats after FMVs, transitions, SIs, etc..) and cannot find another case.

 

There is an Accuracy lose in some Ogres (four or five) after loading the auto-save. Though it seems those same Ogres have an insane Endurance boost. The difficulty should be preserved however, because all Ogres in the Drazir party seem to be complete.

 

I'm definitely going to give this some more love, but as it stands I can't see us taking an immediate action (hot fix). Going to bring it up to the decision makers though, and see what they think.

 

I got your backs

- Sking

 

P.S. There is a debug command 'ToggleCharacterStatsDebug' that will show NPC stats when you mouse over them. Careful with this command, it will be 'ON' until you restart the client.

Good to know you tried, and if it's localised to the Stalwart fight it's not a huge problem. I guess hotfixes should really be reserved for something entirely game-breaking, which this really doesn't seem to be. In any case, thanks!

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thelee

thelee

Posted
  • Author
Posted

:(,

 

So... I've been able to reproduce this but! Only in the Stalwart ogre attack scene. I've been checking other scenes like this one (awkward combats after FMVs, transitions, SIs, etc..) and cannot find another case.

 

There is an Accuracy lose in some Ogres (four or five) after loading the auto-save. Though it seems those same Ogres have an insane Endurance boost. The difficulty should be preserved however, because all Ogres in the Drazir party seem to be complete.

 

I'm definitely going to give this some more love, but as it stands I can't see us taking an immediate action (hot fix). Going to bring it up to the decision makers though, and see what they think.

 

I got your backs

- Sking

 

P.S. There is a debug command 'ToggleCharacterStatsDebug' that will show NPC stats when you mouse over them. Careful with this command, it will be 'ON' until you restart the client.

 

[Edit] Keep on the look out for other scenes. If this is a more global issue we may address it.

 

Thanks for this. Is there any idea what the root cause is? I'm guessing it's some interaction with the autosave taking place right *before* the narration?

  • 0
Sking

Sking

Posted
Posted

Instead of attempting to retell the story of this bug as told by our programmers I'll just summarize. The game is saving before the scene has finished loading causing the mobs stats to be left behind. The good news is that it looks like we are going to squeeze in a hotfix for this issue plus one more (oh the mystery.) I'll post an update once I have all the information.

 

AmA plug (Reddit Link). Obsidian is doing a 'as me anything' on Reddit. Go ask my bosses questions!

 

We will get through this, you and I

- Sking

  • Like 5
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AndreaColombo

AndreaColombo

Posted
Posted

Amazing news!

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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