The Big Sabre Nerf 2016 – Views?

[Livegood118]

Hi all,

 

As you may be aware from the thread for the new patch that's coming out soon the Sabre's base damage increase (+2 Min, +3 Max iirc) is being replaced with a flat +20% bonus to damage. The base damage of sabres will therefore be in line with other large one-handed weapons (11–16).

 

The rationale for the change was the the innate weapon bonus of sabres (increased base damage) scaled much better than other weapons, so players felt like they had to gimp themselves a bit by not going for sabres.

 

What do you think the implication of this will be for character builds?

 

I'm fairly happy with the change because barring a few exceptions most other 1H weapons didn't really get a look in edgewise compared to the Sabre, particularly towards the end game. While Bittercut is still a top dog weapon it's not really the "clear" choice anymore so maybe this will lead to greater varieties of builds.

 

Monks will probably gravitate much more towards fists now because they have a much higher base damage that interacts nicely with lashes.

 

Maybe someone will come up with some optimal builds for 2 Handers now that they're much more viable again?

 

I still think it's a bit of a shame that Durgan Steel can't be applied to Soulbound weapons ... there's a lot of cool options to choose from which are rendered suboptimal by not having it (though Stormcaller will always be great).

Edited September 29, 2016 by Livegood118

[Boeroer]

Good nerf I say. Now 2handers make more sense. And war hammers and swords will get more love.

[Loren Tyr]

Agreed, good nerf. For all the other one-handers as well I'd say. To some extent the most for axes; because they had the Slashing-only disadvantage the gap with Sabre felt biggest for those. Now that it is (well, will be) the same base with +20% flat bonus vs +50% on Crit, it feels much more like an actual choice. 

[Reent]

hmmm, i played chanter all the time and didn't care about the weapon... when i tried barb (low dex one) i felt a single Bittercut was good (1h no shield), but not as good as Tidefall - Firebrand was about as good (exceptional Bittercut) - 2 Sabres felt simply much worse (i dunno why, but i tried and failed to get good results)

However its a barb only thing, since he ignores recovery pretty hard (and 2 weapon style is all about lowering recovery), the nerf should be good - in the beginning sabres still reign supreme, in the end you have Bittercut!

[bigwillystyle]

I feel like axes, maces and sabres are now much more comparable in the higher stages in the game, but I haven't done the math.  Good nerf 

[rheingold]

Good move.

[theBalthazar]

I still think it's a bit of a shame that Durgan Steel can't be applied to Soulbound weapons ... there's a lot of cool options to choose from which are rendered suboptimal by not having it (though Stormcaller will always be great).

 

 

Its my principal problem with that. The game is not balanced (the world is not balanced). Personnally I think its a good thing. Pure equality is boring. Find the best team balancing is a pleasure for me.

 

On the other hand, there is so much others nerf to applie. If we think saber is the most important nerf to applie immediatly = lol.

 

- Stormcaller (no need durgan I think... best bow BY FAR^^)

- A boost for all others soulbound (= really, really bad actually)

-  Nerf druid, wizard, priest.

 

etc.

Edited September 29, 2016 by theBalthazar

[Loren Tyr]

Its my principal problem with that. The game is not balanced (the world is not balanced). Personnally I think its a good thing. Pure equality is boring. Find the best team balancing is a pleasure for me.

 

Actually, the game *is* quite well-balanced in many respects. But that aside, balance and pure equality (or equivalence, more to the point) are hardly the same thing anyway. Taking this case in particular, the various one-handed weapons still have different properties, and as such which one works best in a particular scenario is still an open question. For example, whether a battle axe or a sabre is better will depend on your chance to score Crits, and thus among other things your accuracy. 

 

More generally, if a game is very unbalanced there isn't much for you to find in terms of optimal combinations. If one weapon or weapon type is inherently, significantly better than the rest, then if you want to optimize that must be your pick. Which certainly to some extent is precisely what happens with the current, pre-nerfed version of the Sabre. Better balance in a game doesn't decrease the number of real decisions you have to make, it increases them. 

[Boeroer]

We still have two annihilating sabres in the game - one can be obtained very early - so battle axes are still a bit underwhelming until you get We Toki. And there's Bittercut. Not only the values of a standard sabre or battle axe or whatever define which weapon type is the best - also the unique ones (and when they can be obtained) will influence "balance". And since we have three really nice unique sabres in the game it will still be one of the favourite picks I guess.

[Livegood118]

We still have two annihilating sabres in the game - one can be obtained very early - so battle axes are still a bit underwhelming until you get We Toki. And there's Bittercut. Not only the values of a standard sabre or battle axe or whatever define which weapon type is the best - also the unique ones (and when they can be obtained) will influence "balance". And since we have three really nice unique sabres in the game it will still be one of the favourite picks I guess.

 

Don't forget Rimecutter! 

[Blades of Vanatar]

Think it's a great change. Definitely helps balance onehanders. Sabres still rock which makes the move a win win. Liking the +20% damage on my dual wield Sabre Cipher.

[Boeroer]

 

Don't forget Rimecutter! 

 

Too random. I seldomly get it when I don't use brute force. Like in every 10th playthrough or so. And it's only speed enchanted, so nothing too special.

[Dr <3]

This game need a wounding axe now

[theBalthazar]

Rimcutter is one of the best DPS, now. Sabers are over : p

 

IF the speed is not lost (case of barb somtimes + durgan, with already 0 recovery), the weapon is great. 0.5 critic + 20 % speed...

[evilcat]

Nice nerf. Still fair bonus if we dont have many other bonuses to damage. Or early in game.

[Boeroer]

I think weapon speed is important, but overrated. On the other hand, dual damage types seem to be underrated in my opinion. So, Bittercut (besides getting a nice, unique boost from Spirit of Decay) ist still one of the best weapons in the game. Only worthless against earth blights. Slash only is a disadvantage - I think the most resisted damage type in the game is slash (no proof for that though). But sabres did so much damage in the past that they could easily make up for the dps loss when meeting resistant foes.

 

Speaking of balancing: did you guys realize that there was a hidden (minor) buff to stilettos when OBS introduced the WM? Lagufaeth stilettos do slash damage instead of pierce. So, as a stiletto-guy it's easy to backup for pierce resistant or immune enemies now without picking up an ugly club or a conspicious sabre. Good thing for priests of Skaen and any other MC who profits from Flick of the Wrist and Weapon Focus Ruffian, too. 

 

If they now change Durance's staff from crush/burn to burn/crush I'll also quit my whining that quarterstaffs are left out in the cold. Like Wend-Walker. A late game weapon with the lamestest enchantments (for a reach weapon) of all... booh! 

Edited September 30, 2016 by Boeroer

[Anaeme]

I do not like nerfs as a rule...Being overpowered in games like this is not necessarily a bad thing. 

 

Instead of nerfs the developers should improve challenge rating by making critters smarter and varying their attack repertoire. Nerfs are the lazy way out in my opinion.

 

 

That said, weapons and gear in general overpower the innate abilities of classes in this game. (Forgemaster gloves I am looking at you) this is not a good thing.

 

The power of any class should come from innate abilities chosen during level ups...not the gear they are wearing

[AndreaColombo]

the developers should improve challenge rating by making critters smarter and varying their attack repertoire.

 

As a rule, I agree with this; one of my main pain points with this game is the poor A.I. and encounter design.

 

However, in the case of sabres the nerf was called for. Their base damage overshadowed all other one-handed weapons and generally threatened two-handers' perk of being the highest damage output weapons in the game. It was not a matter of being overpowered in general; it was matter of enabling player choice by making sabres comparable to other one-handers.

[DreamWayfarer]

I do not like nerfs as a rule...Being overpowered in games like this is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

Instead of nerfs the developers should improve challenge rating by making critters smarter and varying their attack repertoire. Nerfs are the lazy way out in my opinion.

Do you know how much work is buffing all underpowered classes/skills/items and all enemies? Nerfing outliers is the same end result for less effort.

 

 

That said, weapons and gear in general overpower the innate abilities of classes in this game. (Forgemaster gloves I am looking at you) this is not a good thing.

 

The power of any class should come from innate abilities chosen during level ups...not the gear they are wearing

Well, Firebrand on a Druid is much less scary than firebrand on a properly built Barbarian, and you can easily build a Paladin around the fact it deals fire damage. It is all about combining abilities with items.

[Boeroer]

Firebrand from the gloves is cool (or hot), but not overpowered if you look at the whole game. No lash, no durgan steel, no quality enchantments, only lasts for a while and you have to sacrifice an item slot for it.

 

I still don't get why druids have this spell though. Two flaming sabres or something like that would have made more sense.

[GuyNice]

Firebrand from the gloves is cool (or hot), but not overpowered if you look at the whole game. No lash, no durgan steel, no quality enchantments, only lasts for a while and you have to sacrifice an item slot for it.

 

I still don't get why druids have this spell though. Two flaming sabres or something like that would have made more sense.

 

Or better yet 2 flaming claws (unarmed) to compliment spirit shift and encourage full-melee-dps druid build.

[Jojobobo]

I've always thought a Firebrand (and burn damage) focussed Fire Godlike Druid with a boar Spiritshift would be cool, going for the war pig archetype where romans would cover pigs in pitch and set them on fire to scare elephants. Never got round to developing the idea though.

 

I think on the whole the sabre nerf is good, but I think the larger issue is some weapon classes are more or less worthless. Who for example is going to use a club over Drawn in Spring? Both weapons have the accuracy bonus, however Drawn in Spring has the raw lash, and with Flick of the Wrist has additional accuracy. It would have been nice to have a least one really cool, interesting and thematic weapon in every class to make you think twice - however some classes do get the short end of the stick.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Boeroer]

Well, I think St. Wygelt's Cudgel is pretty nice - especially for a barb - but it comes too late. Blesca's Labour is also good. I really think quarterstaffs and battle axes are a bit underwhelming though. As I said before (maybe in this thread): if they'd make Durgan's Staff burn/crush instead of crush/burn I would be pleased. THe good Battle Axes - like the good clubs - come too late.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Boeroer

[theBalthazar]

This power have no bonus accuracy if good is my memory.

[Boeroer]

Erm... what?