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So this PS4 Pro I assume is going to be a beefed up version of the regular PS4 with 60+fps and higher resolution graphics as standard, are there any downsides I can highlight to stem the tide of requests from the offspring?

 

well it will be more flashy, but I really doubt, many of the games will play at 60 FPS. "Cinematic" 30 FPS is the new trend of the industry.

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1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

20) Final Fantasy Type-0 - PS4 - 58+ hours

21) Journey - PS4 - 9+ hours

22) Dark Souls II - PS3 - 210+ hours

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So this PS4 Pro I assume is going to be a beefed up version of the regular PS4 with 60+fps and higher resolution graphics as standard, are there any downsides I can highlight to stem the tide of requests from the offspring?

 

well it will be more flashy, but I really doubt, many of the games will play at 60 FPS. "Cinematic" 30 FPS is the new trend of the industry.

 

 

I half expect publishers to push graphics to the point that they are still swimming in the 30FPS range.  That is unless Sony really enforces this.  Or they will have huge frame drops when things get heavy.  Once you become accustomed to 60+FPS then anything less is a travesty.  This is doubly true in any multiplayer environment.  It's pretty much why I am a PC Master Race guy...  I cannot tolerate those low frames when I am trying to track a guy in an FPS.  It is infuriating.  I stay on a 1080p 144hz monitor because I want those frames without 3 graphics cards.  Things are finally starting to get to where a 2550x1440p monitor is getting enticing.  Heck, I miss out on a few console exclusives that I would otherwise play because of this.  I just can't take it. 

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Haha forget about that 60fps standard.

 

Yes, this isn't happening. Slight FPS increase and a additional few graphical options are all that can be realistically expected.

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

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If you look at the type of games that the AAA market keeps pumping out then you will see the trend of FPS, 3rd Person action game, etc covering the landscape.  It doesn't surprise me to see the AAA market shrinking when their portfolio has done the same thing.  lets look at the games they make, and then some of the IPs they own.

Ubisoft:  Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, Tom Clancy shooters, etc.  Many of their titles use the same mechanics of Open world, tower climbing to unlock map which makes their titles a bit too mind numbing anymore.  We will see how South Park pans out, but I am a bit miffed Obsidian isn't at the helm.  Where is Beyond Good and Evil 2?  Why not try another Dark Messiah game?  Might and Magic?

...

 

This is a chicken and egg thing - did customers lose interest because everything is the same or is everything the same because the customers lost interest or aren't numerous enough to warrant niche development at current costs. 

 

What I'm sure of is that there was tangible excitement in the PSX, PS2 era. For the PS3 it was a little less and the PS4 was basically met with a sigh, even before it became clear what the console would actually offer. 

 

Of course, the advancement was tangible as well, PSX and PS2 were worlds apart. The PS3 was better than PS2 but the PS4 was the barest of upgrades over the PS3. As much as publishers now talk about 4k gaming, its decidedly unimpressive, nothing but a resolution boost.

 

While I will agree that gameplay was really more varied in the PSX, PS2 era - its important that this was something that can be assessed only after the fact. It was not the promise of variety that sold these consoles but the technological leap that spurred sales, which spurred development, which resulted in variety. Variety and quality are on the end of the process - if you were to assume what the PS2 would become on the basis of its launch titles, you would think the thing would certainly fail.

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

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So this PS4 Pro I assume is going to be a beefed up version of the regular PS4 with 60+fps and higher resolution graphics as standard, are there any downsides I can highlight to stem the tide of requests from the offspring?

 

well it will be more flashy, but I really doubt, many of the games will play at 60 FPS. "Cinematic" 30 FPS is the new trend of the industry.

 

 

Yeah, 60 fps really isn't even on the menu these days. When I tried to run DAI at 60 fps, the cutscenes got horrible throttling that couldn't really be done away with, even after tinkering with the inis. A buddy of mine tried uncapping FO4 which yielded really funny results at >60 fps, with sentences not finishing before the other guy cut in (TL;DR effect?), and scripted bits outright bugging out, breaking the game. RivaTuner fixed the dialogues thing, but not the broken scripts.

 

30 fps is a design spec, and I'm guessing that just phat hardware isn't enough to overcome that.

 

#pcmasterraceproblems

Edited by 213374U

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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If you look at the type of games that the AAA market keeps pumping out then you will see the trend of FPS, 3rd Person action game, etc covering the landscape.  It doesn't surprise me to see the AAA market shrinking when their portfolio has done the same thing.  lets look at the games they make, and then some of the IPs they own.

Ubisoft:  Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, Tom Clancy shooters, etc.  Many of their titles use the same mechanics of Open world, tower climbing to unlock map which makes their titles a bit too mind numbing anymore.  We will see how South Park pans out, but I am a bit miffed Obsidian isn't at the helm.  Where is Beyond Good and Evil 2?  Why not try another Dark Messiah game?  Might and Magic?

...

 

 

This is a chicken and egg thing - did customers lose interest because everything is the same or is everything the same because the customers lost interest or aren't numerous enough to warrant niche development at current costs. 

 

What I'm sure of is that there was tangible excitement in the PSX, PS2 era. For the PS3 it was a little less and the PS4 was basically met with a sigh, even before it became clear what the console would actually offer. 

 

Of course, the advancement was tangible as well, PSX and PS2 were worlds apart. The PS3 was better than PS2 but the PS4 was the barest of upgrades over the PS3. As much as publishers now talk about 4k gaming, its decidedly unimpressive, nothing but a resolution boost.

 

While I will agree that gameplay was really more varied in the PSX, PS2 era - its important that this was something that can be assessed only after the fact. It was not the promise of variety that sold these consoles but the technological leap that spurred sales, which spurred development, which resulted in variety. Variety and quality are on the end of the process - if you were to assume what the PS2 would become on the basis of its launch titles, you would think the thing would certainly fail.

I don't disagree, really, but I actually think it's an issue of escalation. 10+ years ago they released a plethora of games and some succeeded while others flopped. The cost was as such that a failed game didn't kill the publishers bottom line or tank their stocks. A single success could pay for a few luke warm games. They have escalated graphics and the cinematic elements to the point it is less profitable.

 

These days they all have a few franchises with extreme recognition to milk, and want to maximize profits so they funnel all their money into those titles. They specifically focus on Graphics, Voice acting, multiplayer, and marketing. Now they have been moving to systems to increase post launch profits like DLC, premium passes, micro transactions, etc. Anything else has fallen to the wayside. They have escalated to the point that all they can do is try to find other ways to pay for the expense and continue to drive off the cliff.

 

This escalation would be fine if it didn't tie the publisher's hands to the point they have to play it safe and stick to successful franchises and not rock the boat too much.

 

I remember an interview with Raph Koster (systems designer for Ultima Online and SWG where he made the crafting system) talking about there use to be periodic resets to the cost of game development. An example he gave was when companies started selling Engines like Unreal it caused the price of making 3D games to come down because they didn't have to build the engine in house now. It's been a while, and I can't remember specifics, but he then goes on to say that the industry hasn't see a reset like that in many years.

 

The price of everything has gone up, but they can't get away with an increase in the game's launch price because the consumers would likely not buy it in the same numbers. So, they play it safe, churn out sequels, enforce multiplayer, get top of the line Voice Actors, and throw nearly double the game's budget at marketing. It's also why EA and Activision (I'm sure other publishers too, but I'm less familiar so I don't want to speak out of turn) has been focusing on mobile so much in order to get some sort of safety net up in case they have a franchise fail.

 

Is it these publisher's faults? That's really the chicken and the egg. They were just doing what the consumers were voting for with their wallets, but by doing that they have hemorrhaged smaller groups of people over time. Eventually, these franchises will diminish, and they will have nothing. If I were to blame anything it is games with huge followings like CoD and WoW that caused everyone else in the publisher world to say "I want some of that money, too!" I would also say that these big companies eating all the mid-level developers has been a huge issue, too. We now have an industry with indies and AAA, and almost no one in between. At least that's how it feels.

 

I do remember the PS2 launch. It had Tekken Tag Tournament and Dynasty Warriors 2(I think it was 2), and that's all I needed. Particularly, Tekken, but me and my friends at the time played it together as a weekly routine. However, it was pretty meh to be sure. Any platform, whether console A, B, C, or PC is what the developers and consumers make of it. This whole industry with its faults and greatness is on both the publishers and consumers shoulders.

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Best article about the WiiU flop:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story

 

Its a fascinating read because of the mindset Nintendo shows. Eg: they were trying to implement online infrastructure but it turned out they didn't know how to do it so it ended up being a 5gig day 1 patch*. When questioned about why they didn't do some features like PSN and XBL did it the answer was "nobody in Nintendo's development teams used those systems"!?

 

Another example: Japanese internal development took up to a week to respond to every third party developer question because none of them spoke English and it all had to be translated. You can only imagine the hell of trying to code for a new unfamiliar system and having to wait a week for every issue to be cleared up.

 

*(that bricked some people's consoles, because they thought it was frozen because the process was taking hours and unplugged it)

Edited by Drowsy Emperor

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

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Dungeon Rats, the new, combat focused RPG from the developers of the Age of Decadence: http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/board,50.0.html Should be out in October or November.

 

Hopefully this one will be hard enough.

Edited by Wrath of Dagon
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"Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan

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maybe it's a reference to Desert Rats  :biggrin:

 

or it's a joke about the first enemy players encounter in RPGs

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I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.

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I'll buy it as well, it's not expensive, but I'm hoping they do something more story centric soon.  Looks like that Space Colony game might be interesting.

Edited by Hurlshot
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The Space Colony (actually generational space ship) does look interesting, but it'll still be a few years until it's out. Edit: Yes, it is a Desert Rats reference, since Dungeon Rats are the Seventh Heavy Armored division of the Imperial Guards, while Desert Rats is the Seventh Armored Division of the British Army. Actually Vince may be putting us on here, because why would you name an Armored Division "dungeon rats"? Do they mostly fight in dungeons during Dungeon Sieges?

Edited by Wrath of Dagon
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"Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan

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Dungeon Rats, the new, combat focused RPG from the developers of the Age of Decadence: http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/board,50.0.html Should be out in October or November.

 

Hopefully this one will be hard enough.

I wish I could get into games like that, but they're just mind numbingly boring to me, especially the combat focused aspect. If a thousand years passed, I still wouldn't have gotten myself to play that kind of game.
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Dark Souls is kinda losing me in Blighttown. The area is like something straight out of a trash 90's action adventure game like Deathtrap Dungeon. In fact I'm reminded of the atrocious Vampire Bloodlines sewers. Narrow, cramped, groan inducing status effects etc. Its not even difficult, just annoying.

A completely different universe from the brilliance of the various castle, sewer and forest areas I've seen so far.

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

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Dark Souls is kinda losing me in Blighttown. The area is like something straight out of a trash 90's action adventure game like Deathtrap Dungeon. In fact I'm reminded of the atrocious Vampire Bloodlines sewers. Narrow, cramped, groan inducing status effects etc. Its not even difficult, just annoying.

A completely different universe from the brilliance of the various castle, sewer and forest areas I've seen so far.

I still enjoyed the sewers in Bloodlines simply due to the lore placed in spots. Just goes to show, at least for me, that just a little bit of decent writing can go a long way. Too bad 99% of games can't even accomplish that.

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Dark Souls is kinda losing me in Blighttown. The area is like something straight out of a trash 90's action adventure game like Deathtrap Dungeon. In fact I'm reminded of the atrocious Vampire Bloodlines sewers. Narrow, cramped, groan inducing status effects etc. Its not even difficult, just annoying.

A completely different universe from the brilliance of the various castle, sewer and forest areas I've seen so far.

I still enjoyed the sewers in Bloodlines simply due to the lore placed in spots. Just goes to show, at least for me, that just a little bit of decent writing can go a long way. Too bad 99% of games can't even accomplish that.

 

On retrospective I really wonder about the male Malkavian outfits, somehow they always seem to foreshadow events of the game. Pants only because of the beach, gas mask because of the plague, Hazmat suit because of sewers and party clothes because of the....party.

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I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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Dungeon Rats, the new, combat focused RPG from the developers of the Age of Decadence: http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/board,50.0.html Should be out in October or November.

 

Hopefully this one will be hard enough.

 

The difficulty in AoD came from getting into fights with non-fighter type characters. A properly specced fighter that made liberal use of poisons, bolas and nets would find very little trouble. I'm wondering where the difficulty is going to come from in a combat-centric game where the player is expected to be combat ready. Unfair encounters, most likely, and enemies that spam that **** as much as you do, probably.

 

I'll be getting this one for sure, but won't play it for a while. Took a few patches for AoD to be really polished, from what I read.

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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Dark Souls is kinda losing me in Blighttown. The area is like something straight out of a trash 90's action adventure game like Deathtrap Dungeon. In fact I'm reminded of the atrocious Vampire Bloodlines sewers. Narrow, cramped, groan inducing status effects etc. Its not even difficult, just annoying.

A completely different universe from the brilliance of the various castle, sewer and forest areas I've seen so far.

I still enjoyed the sewers in Bloodlines simply due to the lore placed in spots. Just goes to show, at least for me, that just a little bit of decent writing can go a long way. Too bad 99% of games can't even accomplish that.

 

On retrospective I really wonder about the male Malkavian outfits, somehow they always seem to foreshadow events of the game. Pants only because of the beach, gas mask because of the plague, Hazmat suit because of sewers and party clothes because of the....party.

 

 

Damn, I never noticed this. I mean, I never liked the clothes for the male Malkavian, but I also never thought much about it...

"only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die."

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What did you think of the fight at the mine in Teron?

 

I didn't have much trouble, (almost) no reloads. I found both bandit camps harder (the one with the hostage near Teron and the group that has the mountain monastery under siege). But that's probably due to the builds I used. One was a spearman exploiting the spear pushback proc, and the other was a crossbow/dodge assassin. The Teron mine garrison only has one ranged guy, and that encounter allows you to start with advantageous positioning and ample room for maneuvering, whereas the bandits fights don't, unless you start combat manually. But even if you do, their archers are bad news.

Edited by 213374U

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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The fact that a game would actually be able to install a rootkit and grant kernel-level privileges speaks volumes about Windows' security. 

 

giphy.gif

 

Edit:  Okay, I read that it at least asks you to grant the game superuser-level privileges on start, so at least it wasn't able to do this on its own.  When a game asks for superuser-level privileges, something is wrong, terribly wrong.  Games should only ever exist in user space.  Under no circumstance should a game be ever allowed to mess with the operating system itself.

Edited by Keyrock
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I wonder if there is beer on the sun

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