Baton Rouge Police Shooting

[BruceVC]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/17/us/baton-route-police-shooting/index.html

 

3 dead and 7 wounded....its very early to speculate about who is responsible 

[Oerwinde]

I'm going to speculate a BLM supporter.

[redneckdevil]

I'm going to speculate a BLM supporter.

Same

[Agiel]

I'm going to speculate some maladjusted loser who would latch on to any cause to justify his social grudges and destructive tendencies. After all, I've batted almost a thousand with that bet.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Agiel

[Meshugger]

This is getting depressing.

[BruceVC]

I'm going to speculate a BLM supporter.

 

 

 

I'm going to speculate a BLM supporter.

Same

It could be, we cant say its impossible but it is very early so we should wait and see 

[Drowsy Emperor]

The is an interesting phenomenon because the media basically created this race war out of thin air with systematic selective reporting. 

Edited July 17, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Guard Dog]

If you are guessing BLM you are not going out on a limb there.

[Hurlshort]

BLM is a protest group against police brutality.  There is nothing on their website about shooting police officers.  If you want to blame the entire BLM movement for the shooting deaths of police officers, I hope you are also blaming all police every time they kill someone unjustly.  

[213374U]

The is an interesting phenomenon because the media basically created this race war out of thin air with systematic selective reporting. 

 

Funny that you'd make a comment in this vein, considering your expressed views on other issues.

 

Manufactured race, gender, political orientation or religious wars are apparently very effective at averting class war.

[Gromnir]

BLM is a protest group against police brutality.  There is nothing on their website about shooting police officers.  If you want to blame the entire BLM movement for the shooting deaths of police officers, I hope you are also blaming all police every time they kill someone unjustly.  

 

am agreeing with you. it would be wrong to blame blm for the police shootings, but you may not have chosen the best way to highlight your point. much o' the blm movement uses phrases such as "epidemic" to describe police violence being perpetrated 'gainst black americans.  as we highlighted in another thread, sentiments such as, "As a black man, my only natural predator is a cop. Other things might kill me, the cop is the only one who acts like it’s his job," is voiced by blm pundits and blm mouthpieces.  blm exists not simple to point out the individual bad cops who do bad things, but to point out the systemic flaws in the US justice system disproportionately victimize our black populace.  blaming the system, blaming cops in general, is exact what blm does.

 

black americans got some legit reasons to be angry, but that is the danger o' blm-- it is a movement born o' anger, frustration and hopelessness. anger can easily be misdirected.  worse, every large movement is gonna attract a few extreme advocates.  start with anger and add extreme... top off with mental health issues and/or simple social isolation.  what makes the situation worse is in spite o' the fact that blm soundly and vigorous condemns violence 'gainst police, elements w/i bl has used words such as "martyr" to describe the dallas shooter.  pro football players is posting images o' cops having their throats cut to their social media.  blm can condemn all it wants, but many of its members is creating heroes outta those who do violence unto cops.  

 

regardless, the blm movement has a foundation built 'pon the notion that the US system o' justice, as a whole, is broken and unfair.  there is indeed an inherent blanket blm condemnation o' cops, which ain't complete unjustified.  nationwide changes can and should be considered.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited July 17, 2016 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

BLM is a protest group against police brutality.  There is nothing on their website about shooting police officers.  If you want to blame the entire BLM movement for the shooting deaths of police officers, I hope you are also blaming all police every time they kill someone unjustly.  

Drowsy was right. The media, the BLM movement, Al Sharpton and his ilk, Hillary Clinton and even Obama have been whipping this up into a frenzy in a cynical attempt to gin up election year fury and now they are losing control of it. They don't mean for the people they are deliberately infuriating to start killing cops but that is of small comfort to the families.

 

We have a criminal justice system that deals with cops who kill people for no good reason. The cop in South Carolina is facing life in prison for shooting and unarmed man in the back. But BLM can't even call this justice because the seven cops that have been murdered didn't shoot anyone. It's just unreasoning anger that has been deliberately stoked/

[Malcador]

Somewhat tangential to this, but with all of the tension lately, open carry seems like a silly idea.

[Oerwinde]

BLM is a protest group against police brutality. There is nothing on their website about shooting police officers. If you want to blame the entire BLM movement for the shooting deaths of police officers, I hope you are also blaming all police every time they kill someone unjustly.

I don't blame all BLM for it, though they are responsible for creating an environment where these incidences are more likely. But responsibility is solely in the hands if the asshats who carried it out.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Oerwinde

[Hassat Hunter]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/17/us/baton-route-police-shooting/index.html

 

3 dead and 7 wounded....its very early to speculate about who is responsible

Not really, no... http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/88037-dallas-sniper-shootings/?p=1828693

[Gorgon]

I dunno. I'm not sure I believe there is systemic racism to the degree postulated by BLM. I detect a certain level of hysterics and hyperbole. The shooting of unarmed black men does seem to happen with alarming regularity though. Maybe it's just that there is a cameraphone recording it every time now.

 

And they are of course entirely within their rights to protest and you can't put the actions of, for lack of a better term, insane people on them. 

[Gromnir]

 

BLM is a protest group against police brutality.  There is nothing on their website about shooting police officers.  If you want to blame the entire BLM movement for the shooting deaths of police officers, I hope you are also blaming all police every time they kill someone unjustly.  

Drowsy was right. The media, the BLM movement, Al Sharpton and his ilk, Hillary Clinton and even Obama have been whipping this up into a frenzy in a cynical attempt to gin up election year fury and now they are losing control of it. They don't mean for the people they are deliberately infuriating to start killing cops but that is of small comfort to the families.

 

We have a criminal justice system that deals with cops who kill people for no good reason. The cop in South Carolina is facing life in prison for shooting and unarmed man in the back. But BLM can't even call this justice because the seven cops that have been murdered didn't shoot anyone. It's just unreasoning anger that has been deliberately stoked/

 

to be fair, the system does make it difficult to prosecute cops who do bad.  any 8-year-old knows that one o' the worst sins possible is to snitch. honor codes at prep schools, universities and military academies is utter nonsense.  how many of us who went to university were at least aware o' a fellow student cheating at some point?  did you rat on the cheater?  honor code likely made it your duty to do so. you don't snitch on people you don't like, much less giving up a team member. no doubt gd played a sport, yes?  team stuff stays team stuff, or you is no longer welcome on the team.  we all marvel (or pretend to marvel) at how penn state could protect jerry sandusky for so long.  as horrendous as the example were, we wish we could be more surprised.  police forces and military is even more protective than college and pro teams.  so, when the only other reliable witness to cop badness is a fellow cop, how likely is even a good cop gonna rat out his brother?  am thinking there is no mystery that judges presumptive trust cops and prosecutors know just how difficult it is to get a jury to convict a cop.  *chuckle* even more fundamental is police is 'posed to carry guns.  when narrative includes a police officer drawing his weapon, the legal finder o' fact needs to be convinced o' the drawing and firing the weapon were the incorrect choice.  when a civilian draws a weapon on an armed police officer, or attacks an armed police officer with fists or knives, there is an understandable presumption that the soon-to-be-victim were making a mistake.  

 

*shrug*

 

shady posted an article talking'bout the dangers o' environmental flaws in police departments.  we didn't complete agree with the article, but there is also truth in the notion that various environments can become breeding grounds for shoddy and unethical behavior.  the racial element were overplayed a bit, but any close-knit group, particularly when one is dependent on a team mentality, can have bad behaviors spread like a virus.  had a friend stuck prosecuting firemen a few years ago.  one local firehouse just went... bad.  is not as if the firemen were committing arson or anything, but there were widespread negligence and even some odd all-night sex-party stuff. am doubting most o' the individual firemen were bad, but if everybody else is doing it, and code o' silence prevents you from speaking out 'bout it...

 

am thinking changes need be made to policing.  constitutional should not be the only bar on police excess.  state and local needs get far more active in setting limits on the appropriate use o' force for cops, 'cause at the moment, the 'mount o' perceived danger to a cop before it is ok for him/her to discharge a weapon at center-mass o' suspect is small... negligible.  and guess what, given the current environment, even more situations is gonna create reasonable fear for cop safety.  

 

...

 

biggest possible problem can't be fixed. we got ubiquitous handguns in this country.  any suspect can be armed. whether a suspect is armed or not is almost incidental 'cause police fear that Doug or Vince were reaching for a gun instead o' wallet or registration or asthma inhaler is gonna be real in many situations. 

 

the conflict ain't just a creation o' the media.  in part 'cause o' economic reasons, blacks is suspects more than other racial groups.  cops is anticipating violence when dealing with suspects. cops should expect violence when dealing with suspects.  cops ain't supermen.  cops is people.  doesn't take a genius to realize how likely things is gonna get deadly and bloody when two civilians is confronting each other in a heated situation and at least one has a gun,  but we act surprised when a cop and a civilian gets in a confrontation and one ends up dead... and guess who is most likely to die?  

 

fundamental changes is needed.  is not all just imaginary.  even so, we do agree some in the media does obfuscate facts and distract the dialogue.  far more progress could be made if the media as a whole were responsible. however, the media has always been advocates o' social change as well as at least giving the illusion o' dispassionate presentation o' the facts.  am not certain we want the media to censor itself to such a degree, even when they is wrong.  whole 'nother set o' problems.  am not concerned with the advocacy as long as the media actual tries to get facts straight.  that line does blur a bit.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited July 17, 2016 by Gromnir

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

The is an interesting phenomenon because the media basically created this race war out of thin air with systematic selective reporting. 

 

Funny that you'd make a comment in this vein, considering your expressed views on other issues.

 

Manufactured race, gender, political orientation or religious wars are apparently very effective at averting class war.

 

 

Thinking that economics lie at the base of every social conflict is a mistake that leftists always continue to make. Ideas, religion and various forms of identity are just as compelling reasons, not (always) just the veneer that comes on top of special interests.

[HoonDing]

[Drowsy Emperor]

As for this issue in particular, what I was trying to say that nothing of substance has changed. The police of today is probably much the same as the police 20-30 years ago, and criminality, poverty etc. has long been a problem with the black population.

 

But for months now a narrative about particular police brutality towards black people is being repeated by the media. In a country of 350 million people, there are countless murders and crimes committed every day. Yet a particular selection is constantly in the news and is helping feed the "civil war" atmosphere. I don't believe any of these latest events would have happened without the "them vs us, police vs blacks" cauldron the media keep adding fuel to.

[Calax]

As for this issue in particular, what I was trying to say that nothing of substance has changed. The police of today is probably much the same as the police 20-30 years ago, and criminality, poverty etc. has long been a problem with the black population.

 

But for months now a narrative about particular police brutality towards black people is being repeated by the media. In a country of 350 million people, there are countless murders and crimes committed every day. Yet a particular selection is constantly in the news and is helping feed the "civil war" atmosphere. I don't believe any of these latest events would have happened without the "them vs us, police vs blacks" cauldron the media keep adding fuel to.

Playing devils advocate.

 

I think that the BLM movement would say that their entire goal was to push these particular incidents into the picture because of how badly they've been getting marginalized by the system, and that despite our attempts otherwise, policing hasn't changed much in terms of culture since the Rodney King beating in the nineties.

 

I think that one of the things that has been stated as being a possible solution in the long run (and to address several issues about oversight) would be to nationalize the police forces. Because as it stands right now, each individual city having it's own police force that has it's own budget and reports to itself means that it's incredibly easy for abuses to be swept under the rug. (Did hear a BLM movement member wonder why over 50% of LA's city budget runs right into the LAPD)

[Hassat Hunter]

I'm going to just go out and tell from the experience of this country I live in, National Police is a very VERY bad idea.

[Guard Dog]

@Gromnir: I don't disagree with any of that. And I certainly don't disagree there is a systemic problem in law enforcement conduct. I'm just pointing out that the response to the last half dozen incidents, even where justified, is not entirely organic. There is definitely manipulation by both political and media interests (as if those were separate things) to turn this into a bigger thing than it might be. Anger, once whipped up, is like a fire. It can get out of hand quick. There is a lot the political leaders, BLM leaders and media can do to cool things off and they are not doing any of them.

 

I strongly suspect both the Minnesota and Louisiana incidents will end with indictments. Particularly the one in Minnesota. The one in Baton Rouge, the suspect may or may not have been reaching for a weapon he did have but he was pinned to the sidewalk by at least two cops when he was shot in the back of the head. I have a hard time buying 9mm-to-the-brain is the minimum force required. That cop in Minnesota flat out panicked. But that is my own take on it. Once the investigation is completed and those cases are adjudicated (or not) then there is something to sink their teeth into. Notice now that all the facts are out no one is suggesting Micheal Brown was murdered anymore. 

 

On a personal note the Guard Dog college experience was a little non-traditional. I was working 40-50 hours a week and I did all my coursework at night and my fellow students mat have been cheating right in front of me for all I knew! Unless they were between me and the coffee stand I was barely aware they existed! 

[Calax]

I'm going to just go out and tell from the experience of this country I live in, National Police is a very VERY bad idea.

I wasn't saying that it was a good idea, just an idea I heard floating around on the airwaves.

 

The real problem is A) Locker room culture and B) lack of actual active oversight of the Police. 

[Guard Dog]

I'm going to just go out and tell from the experience of this country I live in, National Police is a very VERY bad idea.

I agree. We will never go along with that s--t in the US.