WarCraft movie is getting slaughtered by critics

[Meshugger]

Wait, David Bowie's kid directed this movie? The guy actually got some talent.

[Tale]

Not enough reviews to say it's really getting slaughtered yet, but I never had high hopes for it. Everything I've seen has failed to impress. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Wait, David Bowie's kid directed this movie? The guy actually got some talent.

Yup. In case anyone here hasn't done so yet, go watch Moon and Source Code. They're great.

 

Also watch The Babadook if you want some horror without over the top CGI or gore. Not directed by him, but very good.

[Longknife]

Ok, serious topic time: Someone explain "Blizzard fanboys" to me.

 

  I've never played a Blizzard game cept for Starcraft, I'm completely alien to their community. However, I do play TF2 and recently I've seen the TF2 community scream "noooo Overwatch is gonna kill TF2. I've played Overwatch, and I honestly do not understand the appeal. Like if I'd never played TF2, maybe it'd be decent, but coming from TF2, it is crystal clear TF2 is the better designed game in terms of having more potential (****ing Rocket Jumping is a god damned science for some reason, and takes hundreds of hours to master) and likewise I find it simply more fun. Basic example, a small annoyance is that if you play Scout and you hit a doorway the same moment as a Soldier, you're dead. It's annoying and one of those "I did nothing wrong" deaths, but hey it happens. Overwatch multiplies that **** by ten. You can die to a spiteful ultimate, you can die because omg you saw a Bastion, you can die because omg the sniper sightlines and Widowmaker as a concept are nothing short of ridiculous (just saw a post the other day from a guy with cerebral palsy thanking Blizzard cause Widowmaker is finally a sniper class he can play competently), you can die because you got flanked period. (ALL characters save for maybe two are prone to just dropping dead in a matter of seconds if they take fire without a shield, meaning one flanker can two people before comms even have time to react)

 

But all that is ultimately besides the point. The gameplay of it is more or less still solid, it's just nothing special in my experience. I don't get the appeal of the game, but whatever, it's not some objectively terrible title or anything. What isn't besides the point is the abysmal writing. Seriously, have you guys seen this ****?:

 

 

 

  I watch that and I cannot for the life of me figure out who the game's target demographic is. It's like Disney Pixar and Marvel's Deadpool attempted to have a baby, and the baby now can't decide if it wants to be child friendly or an edgy badass. There's bad guys, but oh man can't have the soccer moms upset so the bad guys just beat up robutts. There's a badass hero flying in to tell you how amazing he is, but omg think of the children, our stone-cold protagonist better take care to just shoot everyone's guns out of their hands. What I don't get is I watch this and I can't understand it in the sense that this type of compromise of ideas should not work. Surely the same edgy teens that would eat up Soldier 76 as a character concept would get annoyed with the painfully obvious G-rating going on there, right? RIGHT????

 

  And yet the game is popular. I don't know if this is a testament to marketing or a testament to poor taste or a testament to people not caring about writing in video games, or a combination of all three, but needless to say I'm confused. For those that haven't seen this game, this is a game where characters all suffer from one trope and "personality trait." McCree is American and therefore cowboy and for some reason can't shutup about High Noon. Hanzo is Japanese and therefore an archer (don't worry, his brother's the ninja!) and also can't shut the **** up about honor and dragons. Symmetra is from India and therefore she must be all "mystical east" and **** and constantly talk about "the path." D.Va is Korean and therefore a K-pop model in a god damned gundam mech and she can't stop making gaming references. I could go on and on.

 

The most painfully obvious example of trash-tier writing is Reaper. This is a character that runs around in all black with that long black cloak thing going on, he's constantly talking about death and how he's so badass he'll kill everyone, one of his most common dialog lines is literally "DIE, DIE, DIE!!!", and one of his character designs is that he literally eats the souls of slain enemies to regain health. Needless to say I'm stupidly confused about the popularity. From a writing perspective, this game flunks out completely.

 

Despite all that, the hype for the game is huge and good luck trying to state that the writing is awful without defensive responses.

So please, someone explain it to me. What the HELL is going on with Blizzard's fanbase and why is this writing given a pass? I've only seen claims Blizzard can write, but I rarely seem to come across criticism despite how amazingly cliché their newest product is.

[HoonDing]

otoh cant wait for Resident Evil: Final Chapter

[Malcador]

Ok, serious topic time: Someone explain "Blizzard fanboys" to me.

 

I've never played a Blizzard game cept for Starcraft, I'm completely alien to their community. However, I do play TF2 and recently I've seen the TF2 community scream "noooo Overwatch is gonna kill TF2. I've played Overwatch, and I honestly do not understand the appeal. Like if I'd never played TF2, maybe it'd be decent, but coming from TF2, it is crystal clear TF2 is the better designed game in terms of having more potential (****ing Rocket Jumping is a god damned science for some reason, and takes hundreds of hours to master) and likewise I find it simply more fun. Basic example, a small annoyance is that if you play Scout and you hit a doorway the same moment as a Soldier, you're dead. It's annoying and one of those "I did nothing wrong" deaths, but hey it happens. Overwatch multiplies that **** by ten. You can die to a spiteful ultimate, you can die because omg you saw a Bastion, you can die because omg the sniper sightlines and Widowmaker as a concept are nothing short of ridiculous (just saw a post the other day from a guy with cerebral palsy thanking Blizzard cause Widowmaker is finally a sniper class he can play competently), you can die because you got flanked period. (ALL characters save for maybe two are prone to just dropping dead in a matter of seconds if they take fire without a shield, meaning one flanker can two people before comms even have time to react)

 

But all that is ultimately besides the point. The gameplay of it is more or less still solid, it's just nothing special in my experience. I don't get the appeal of the game, but whatever, it's not some objectively terrible title or anything. What isn't besides the point is the abysmal writing. Seriously, have you guys seen this ****?:

 

 

 

I watch that and I cannot for the life of me figure out who the game's target demographic is. It's like Disney Pixar and Marvel's Deadpool attempted to have a baby, and the baby now can't decide if it wants to be child friendly or an edgy badass. There's bad guys, but oh man can't have the soccer moms upset so the bad guys just beat up robutts. There's a badass hero flying in to tell you how amazing he is, but omg think of the children, our stone-cold protagonist better take care to just shoot everyone's guns out of their hands. What I don't get is I watch this and I can't understand it in the sense that this type of compromise of ideas should not work. Surely the same edgy teens that would eat up Soldier 76 as a character concept would get annoyed with the painfully obvious G-rating going on there, right? RIGHT????

 

And yet the game is popular. I don't know if this is a testament to marketing or a testament to poor taste or a testament to people not caring about writing in video games, or a combination of all three, but needless to say I'm confused. For those that haven't seen this game, this is a game where characters all suffer from one trope and "personality trait." McCree is American and therefore cowboy and for some reason can't shutup about High Noon. Hanzo is Japanese and therefore an archer (don't worry, his brother's the ninja!) and also can't shut the **** up about honor and dragons. Symmetra is from India and therefore she must be all "mystical east" and **** and constantly talk about "the path." D.Va is Korean and therefore a K-pop model in a god damned gundam mech and she can't stop making gaming references. I could go on and on.

 

The most painfully obvious example of trash-tier writing is Reaper. This is a character that runs around in all black with that long black cloak thing going on, he's constantly talking about death and how he's so badass he'll kill everyone, one of his most common dialog lines is literally "DIE, DIE, DIE!!!", and one of his character designs is that he literally eats the souls of slain enemies to regain health. Needless to say I'm stupidly confused about the popularity. From a writing perspective, this game flunks out completely.

 

Despite all that, the hype for the game is huge and good luck trying to state that the writing is awful without defensive responses.

So please, someone explain it to me. What the HELL is going on with Blizzard's fanbase and why is this writing given a pass? I've only seen claims Blizzard can write, but I rarely seem to come across criticism despite how amazingly cliché their newest product is.

Their games are fun to play. Also why are you looking at the writing...in an FPS.

[Hurlshort]

I'm not sure I've ever seen Blizzard lauded for their great writing.  They tend to nail the gameplay down, polish the heck out of it, and appeal to a wide audience.  That's their formula, it may be simple, but it has made them arguably the most successful studio around.  They also seem unwilling to release anything that doesn't meet a certain criteria of fun, even after years of development, and that is a good way to endear themselves to their fans.  I wish we had more studios that follow the Blizzard model. (despite me not really enjoying Starcraft or Diablo.)

Edited May 25, 2016 by Hurlshot

[Cyseal]

8.7/10 at this moment

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0803096/

[Amentep]

Yeah I always remember people talking about cinematics and atmosphere when they talked about Diablo and Diablo II (the only Blizzard games that I've played*)

 

*I don't count The Lost Vikings as they were Silicone and Synapse at the time.

[Leferd]

Blizzard's writing is decent enough.

 

I used to devour the Warcraft 2 and Starcraft manuals for their world lore.

[Longknife]

 

Their games are fun to play. Also why are you looking at the writing...in an FPS.

 

Writing can help and amplify ANY product, in my humble opinion. TF2 itself is actually a pretty good example of that. I like playing the game, getting a domination on a Sniper and then hearing Scout's harsh trash talk like this (something the Sniper will hear too) cause it adds to the ambience. I like putting on a hat and being treated to unique dialog like this or this cause it actually adds to my enjoyment of the game just to hear all the stupid voicelines they'll say. They also periodically release TF2 comics for no reason other than just for fun, and they can actually be pretty entertaining to read.

 

It's polish, basically. It amplifies the experience and makes it more entertaining. I dominate a Heavy, Scout says some douchebag line like he always does, the domination feels all the sweeter. I play Overwatch and Tracer will not SHUT THE **** UP about how ****ney (edit: that's supposed to say cawkney, like the british accent dialect thingy) she is or Soldier 76 has to deliver a line about what a hardened badass soldier he is every time he respawns, and it takes me out of the experience as I groan at the bad writing.

 

That game has just been a grim reminder to what I already know: writing is undervalued in the gaming industry, which is painful to watch because I'm one of the few that does care, and as a result of few people caring, I have to play games where characters unironically scream "DIE DIE DIE" while they eat souls and read their latest poem about darkness and how their parents JUST DUN UNDERSTAND.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Longknife

[Oerwinde]

The one review compared it to Willow and Dragonslayer. Not exactly Lord of the Rings, but fun and remembered fondly. Thats all I ask for in a Warcraft movie.

[HoonDing]

Does it have fun battles at least?

 

Boll's Dungeon Siege movies were utter crap but had some cool set pieces.

[Blarghagh]

Blizzard's writing is decent enough.

 

I used to devour the Warcraft 2 and Starcraft manuals for their world lore.

 

Me too. It's something I've noticed since they've decided to embrace more cinematic storytelling - they are absolutely terrible at telling a story as it happens. But reading background information on their websites, in their books, in the manuals... they're still fantastic at world building.

[Hurlshort]

I've played a fair amount of TF2 and I can't tell you anything about the characters or the world.  I don't think comparing the writing of TF2 and Overwatch is a worthwhile endeavor.

[Heijoushin]

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/may/25/world-of-warcraft-the-beginning-review-end-already-nigh?CMP=fb_gu

 

The prospect of a predominantly white, European realm being invaded by foreign, primitive, darker skinned hordes (they are actually called the Horde) might set alarm bells ringing in our current climate of immigration anxiety. Is this a veiled Ukip broadcast? Or a pro-Trump one?

 

Oh god, must everything be about race and politics? Do people still enjoy movies or just over analyze them to see if they match their political views?

[Hiro Protagonist]

Not unlike Attack of the Clones and the Mexican reference:

 

 

Temuera Morrison, the actor who plays Jango, is a New Zealander of Maori descent. But that didn't get in the way of some members of an eight-person Detroit News panel assembled to review the film.

 

"He looked totally Latino," says Martina Guzman, a Detroiter who's managing a State House election campaign.
"And his kid," says Wayne State history professor Jose Cuello, referring to the young Boba Fett, "looked even more Latino."

 

 

 

 
 

[Blarghagh]

 

 

Their games are fun to play. Also why are you looking at the writing...in an FPS.

 

Writing can help and amplify ANY product, in my humble opinion. TF2 itself is actually a pretty good example of that. I like playing the game, getting a domination on a Sniper and then hearing Scout's harsh trash talk like this (something the Sniper will hear too) cause it adds to the ambience. I like putting on a hat and being treated to unique dialog like this or this cause it actually adds to my enjoyment of the game just to hear all the stupid voicelines they'll say. They also periodically release TF2 comics for no reason other than just for fun, and they can actually be pretty entertaining to read.

 

It's polish, basically. It amplifies the experience and makes it more entertaining. I dominate a Heavy, Scout says some douchebag line like he always does, the domination feels all the sweeter. I play Overwatch and Tracer will not SHUT THE **** UP about how ****ney (edit: that's supposed to say cawkney, like the british accent dialect thingy) she is or Soldier 76 has to deliver a line about what a hardened badass soldier he is every time he respawns, and it takes me out of the experience as I groan at the bad writing.

 

That game has just been a grim reminder to what I already know: writing is undervalued in the gaming industry, which is painful to watch because I'm one of the few that does care, and as a result of few people caring, I have to play games where characters unironically scream "DIE DIE DIE" while they eat souls and read their latest poem about darkness and how their parents JUST DUN UNDERSTAND.

 

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools

 

Overwatch is a superhero fantasy. Larger than life, super exaggerated archetypes was kinda the thing they're going for. For example, Reaper is grimdark and stupid because he's a Spawn expy and Spawn is grimdark and stupid. There's also 21 of them, and there are going to be more. They don't have space for depth, especially in a game this fast. I don't think TF2 characters have better writing myself at all, but they do have more writing (specifically, one comedian on staff that tells a bunch of jokes), because they have significantly more space to themselves on account of there being 8 in a slower paced game, and they kind of have to because they don't distinguish themselves enough visually. They're just dudes. Soldier dude in team color, larger soldier dude in team color, soldier dude in team color with a gasmask. They don't exemplify archetypes quite as much, so personality is literally all the designers had to go on.

 

Not going to defend the horrible voice acting though. Fix that ****, Blizz.

[majestic]

Overwatch has terrible voice acting? Heh. Did they get Metzen to record all the characters again, like they always do in World of Warcraft?

[Malcador]

No. Metzen would be superior to whoever the hell did Tracer. Hate everything about that character.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

No. Metzen would be superior to whoever the hell did Tracer. Hate everything about that character.

 

She's in HotS as well, and super fun to play... up until the moment she opens her mouth. Because then my ears start to bleed and everything is suddenly subsumed by OH GOD PLEASE MAKE IT STOP.

[Malcador]

Apparently the actress is from Yorkshire. Huh. Well at least it's not all faked. Just grating.

[Longknife]

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools

 

Overwatch is a superhero fantasy. Larger than life, super exaggerated archetypes was kinda the thing they're going for. For example, Reaper is grimdark and stupid because he's a Spawn expy and Spawn is grimdark and stupid. There's also 21 of them, and there are going to be more. They don't have space for depth, especially in a game this fast. I don't think TF2 characters have better writing myself at all, but they do have more writing (specifically, one comedian on staff that tells a bunch of jokes), because they have significantly more space to themselves on account of there being 8 in a slower paced game, and they kind of have to because they don't distinguish themselves enough visually. They're just dudes. Soldier dude in team color, larger soldier dude in team color, soldier dude in team color with a gasmask. They don't exemplify archetypes quite as much, so personality is literally all the designers had to go on.

 

Not going to defend the horrible voice acting though. Fix that ****, Blizz.

 

 

 

But there's a difference between, for example, having the Japanese ninja and having a guy that is legit based off a 14-year-old's edgy internet posts. One of those is indeed ok Tropes are Tools, the other is just cringeworthy. Likewise it doesn't justify the repetitive dialog (as I said, each character tends to have some subject they will NOT shut the **** up about); Mercy for example uses cliche tropes and cliche lines you'd expect from a doctor, sure, but what's McCree's fixation with High Noon? Why won't Symmetra shutup about "the path?" That is lazy writing of the highest order, and as I said I know I'm in the minority here but listening to that stuff drives me nuts. Getting a killstreak and then Reaper starts reciting his poetry about darkness or Soldier 76 has to tell me what a gruff and tough badass he is...? Please just include a way to turn the damned dialog off.

 

And it's not limited to the game either. I compare it to TF2 because both of them seem to have the same media methods: TF2 has SFM videos, extensive in-game dialog and comics. Overwatch has their own animation studio, extensive in-game dialog and comics. You seen the video they made for Genji and Hanzo? One of the youtube comments on that vid said it best:

 

"I come here once a year to pay respects to my brother, who I killed, which I now regret deeply."

"I am your brother and I am not dead. I forgive you for what you did."

"I'LL KILL YOU."

 

It's just all around very piss poor writing, and I'm surprised to see it praised so much. I'd be inclined to disagree about the "more writing cause less visually diverse" line aswell. To me, part of it is that....saw another guy say his belief is the difference lies in that TF2 knows not to take itself super serious and does this while Overwatch tries to be as srs bsns as possible and does this. Again, nothing wrong with taking itself seriously, but the plotlines themselves are filled with cliches rather than the characters themselves being built upon cliches and expanding past that. TF2 embraces the little oddities like "what the HELL is going on in gameplay" and feeds you a story about two dimwit brothers spending their father's fortune on gravel companies and hiring mercs to attack each other while being manipulated by a mysterious woman to ensure warfare continues, Overwatch I believe the devs have stated that the actual gameplay should just be completely disconnected from the lore as they can't make sense of certain heroes working together. And hell, if the difference is Valve hires writers and Blizzard doesn't? Dear god please let's just have more companies hiring writers. As you yourself said they have a comedian on board. A comedian, possibly a couple more writers, and a comic book guy. That's precisely what I wanna see, cause I'm sick of an industry where people like Chris Avellone are rare because the industry only recognizes writers that can code.

 

 

 

Also, completely off-topic, but TF2 has 9 mercs, not eight, and it actually gets stupidly fast-paced at the top level. The best way I can explain it quickly is that for example if you compare Scout to Tracer and Soldier to Pharah...? Scout can dodge and shoot simultaneously while Tracer cannot and her non-blink movement speed isn't all that fast. Scout likewise relies on burst damage whereas Tracer's is DPS. A Scout vs Scout fight can end very suddenly or take a while depending on how meatshots land, a Tracer vs. Tracer would get kinda awkward, I'd imagine, since both have at least one mulligan and the pacing would drastically drop once blinks get used. Ultimately Scout offers more potential control to the player which, when mastered, makes the class very potent. Pharah vs. Soldier? I wasn't joking when I said rocket jumping is a science. TF2 is free, so if you wanna see what I mean, launch the game, search for a server, type "jump academy" in the search results and you'll see what I mean if you try it yourself. Ridiculous amounts of practice needed, ridiculous potential provided. Pharah's air capacity is very steady and reliable as she's pretty much always moving at the same velocity with the exact same potential for movement at all times. This can have issues where for example she is an absolute sitting duck in the air when it comes to snipers. Soldier in TF2? Hell no. Sniper needs to be just as afraid of Soldier as he is of Sniper, because if he cannot land 1-2 headshots as the soldier's in air, Soldier will sure as hell land those rockets on his way down. Takes a ridiculous amount more effort to master Soldier over Pharah, but the pay off is pretty much all to do with movement speed, thus the end-game scenario for TF2 has to be one of the most fast-paced shooters on the market, if not the most. (I'm less familiar with other titles that come up in such discussions, such as Unreal Tournament for example, so can't say)

[Blarghagh]

Actually, Blizzard has writers. StarCraft II didn't become absolute **** until Brian Kindregan joined the team. Anyway, if you think Overwatch is being serious business about stuff I dunno what to tell you. Nothing about it seems to be taking itself seriously to me.

Edited May 26, 2016 by TrueNeutral

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Also, completely off-topic, but TF2 has 9 mercs, not eight, and it actually gets stupidly fast-paced at the top level. The best way I can explain it quickly is that for example if you compare Scout to Tracer and Soldier to Pharah...? Scout can dodge and shoot simultaneously while Tracer cannot and her non-blink movement speed isn't all that fast. Scout likewise relies on burst damage whereas Tracer's is DPS. A Scout vs Scout fight can end very suddenly or take a while depending on how meatshots land, a Tracer vs. Tracer would get kinda awkward, I'd imagine, since both have at least one mulligan and the pacing would drastically drop once blinks get used. Ultimately Scout offers more potential control to the player which, when mastered, makes the class very potent. Pharah vs. Soldier? I wasn't joking when I said rocket jumping is a science. TF2 is free, so if you wanna see what I mean, launch the game, search for a server, type "jump academy" in the search results and you'll see what I mean if you try it yourself. Ridiculous amounts of practice needed, ridiculous potential provided. Pharah's air capacity is very steady and reliable as she's pretty much always moving at the same velocity with the exact same potential for movement at all times. This can have issues where for example she is an absolute sitting duck in the air when it comes to snipers. Soldier in TF2? Hell no. Sniper needs to be just as afraid of Soldier as he is of Sniper, because if he cannot land 1-2 headshots as the soldier's in air, Soldier will sure as hell land those rockets on his way down. Takes a ridiculous amount more effort to master Soldier over Pharah, but the pay off is pretty much all to do with movement speed, thus the end-game scenario for TF2 has to be one of the most fast-paced shooters on the market, if not the most. (I'm less familiar with other titles that come up in such discussions, such as Unreal Tournament for example, so can't say)

 

 

Has it ever occurred to you that some people are just not interested in high skill floor games you need to invest hundreds of hours in to master?

 

And that this might have something to do with Overwatch's popularity?