Pillars of Eternity 2 Wish List and Suggestions

[demeisen]

4. More "choose your own adventure" story times -- not sure what they're called but I like them and find them immersive.

 

Yeah!  I like those too.  It's one of those things I doubt an AAA studio that throws 250 people and 80 million dollars at a game would do.  The story cards somehow add a really nice feel to the game - feels like the ending of a good chapter of a book, but where you get to make choices that matter for the characters.  Also, like the rest of PoE, their art style is just really nice.

 

(That's not to say they should be overused, but they're a brilliant idea that worked great in PoE1).

[DreamWayfarer]

3. Larger wilderness maps to explore with more content -- even BG1 had this. I remember running into random bounty hunters, random quests (like a little dog turning out to be a menacing demon was awesome), more "secret areas" that become available if your skill is high enough to spot them.

 

I agree with everything except this. While I have no experience with how this was in BG (shame on me), for me wilderness areas are those places between interesting places, where anything that moves wants to kill you for reasons and you are sent to to compplete sidequests you are given in more interesting areas.

 

I think a game with more centralized locations focusing on a single solid city and the lands around it would make for a better paced narrative than the arbitrary travelling going on between the Acts in PoE.

Edited July 28, 2016 by DreamWayfarer

[VahnXIII]

 

3. Larger wilderness maps to explore with more content -- even BG1 had this. I remember running into random bounty hunters, random quests (like a little dog turning out to be a menacing demon was awesome), more "secret areas" that become available if your skill is high enough to spot them.

I agree with everything except this. While I have no experience with how this was in BG (shame on me), for me wilderness areas are those places between interesting places, where anything that moves wants to kill you for reasons and you are sent to to compplete sidequests you are given in more interesting areas.

 

I think a game with more centralized locations focusing on a single solid city and the lands around it would make for a better paced narrative than the arbitrary travelling going on between the Acts in PoE.

 

 

I guess I want to have my cake and eat it too. BG2 did wonderful with Athkatla and the surrounding wilderness areas whereas BG1 had sprawling wilderness between each important location. Though I did like the area with the Ankhegs, the Friendly Arm Inn, Beregost, Gilikin, Nashkel, and of course the city of BG itself. I thought the areas were well done and provided content instead of areas that were simply populated with enemies. POE could have done better in that area I think.

[PangaeaACDC]

I guess I want to have my cake and eat it too. BG2 did wonderful with Athkatla and the surrounding wilderness areas whereas BG1 had sprawling wilderness between each important location. Though I did like the area with the Ankhegs, the Friendly Arm Inn, Beregost, Gilikin, Nashkel, and of course the city of BG itself. I thought the areas were well done and provided content instead of areas that were simply populated with enemies. POE could have done better in that area I think.

 

One of the things I didn't like all that much about BG2 was that there weren't many wilderness areas. It was really interesting to wander through some of these in BG1, and you met quite a few people there too, with quests and other stuff going on. PoE had a good balance here tbh, though there could have been more quests in the 'wilderness' areas, at least for my taste. It would have given us some more options for taking a break from Defiance Bay to go elsewhere for a little while. I felt the pacing in the early part of the game was better, and it got a bit overwhelming or messy once in Defiance Bay. I was really excited when getting there the first time, imagining maybe it would be like getting to Baldur's Gate. Although BG city could be pretty overwhelming and confusing too (with a million buildings), Defiance Bay simply didn't work as well. A minor point maybe, but for such a big-ish city, it's odd that it's only possible to recruit one companion there. Most of the districts don't have all that much going on either, mostly just a few buildings with liberal littering of backer NPCs.

 

Perhaps we shouldn't look back to BG so much, but it's such an easy thing to do since those games worked so marvellously well.

 

Also, cake is awesome!

[Mnemon]

I was among the backers but am only now on my first play as I didn't have the required hardware previously.

 

My major big wish would be to at least experimenting and considering a switch to a turn-based combat system with the basis of what is here, already, during the early design phase of the game. I know it diverts from Baldur's Gate series, but I am seriously annoyed how much Real Time with Pause is in the way of what is a pretty solid system otherwise. Combat diverts far enough from Baldur's Gate and D&D as is.

 

If it turns out to be completely impossible to re-work it, then fair enough. But I feel that the core aspects of PoEs system, i.e. making positioning matter a lot, the focus on micro-managing movement, and on abilities and counter abilities that clock down, all would lend themselves so much more to a real turn based or phase based (see Frozen Synapse, et all) system. PoE's combat is focused on precision and exactness in game-play which is cool. The more chaotic nature of a real-time system underlying it all is at odds on that end.

 

It'd make it so much easier to design more challenging, but fewer, combat encounters, too.

[Loren Tyr]

It'd probably scare away quite a few potential players, though. I would certainly favour further increasing the amount of control over the game flow and giving more feedback, but turning it into a turn-based system would almost certainly put me off of playing it. And I can't imagine I would be the only one, I'd think turn-based gameplay is has mostly a niche appeal.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Loren Tyr

[Harry Easter]

Just came to my mind:

 

- make my Watcher-skills more relevant: most of the time the skills were used for exposition and we could use the more interesting things (awakening a soul) when it fitted the story. It would be cool, if we could use those skills more often, maybe with some kind of limited ressources like the soul-eating in Mask of the Betrayer?

[Elric Galad]

It'd probably scare away quite a few potential players, though. I would certainly favour further increasing the amount of control over the game flow and giving more feedback, but turning it into a turn-based system would almost certainly put me off of playing it. And I can't imagine I would be the only one, I'd think turn-based gameplay is has mostly a niche appeal.

 

Well, turn-based has a niche appeal.

But PoE isn't exactly mainstream either.

 

It is just that it is another niche.

[mindswayer]

Pretty sure I already posted in this thread but at the same time I can't really remember.

Whatever

- No levelled/scaled loot, and way more unique items with unique properties that aren't "cast this spell you already have on hit"

- I felt that patches only made abilities in PoE equally boring as opposed to equally fun. You should allow the player to feel powerful, imo.

- Be more imaginative with magic - stop copy pasting D&D spells over and over again, everyone's seen them multiple times for 30 years. Create out-of-combat spells, spells that can be used in dialogue, spells that increase movespeed of the party, spells that let you open locks, I don't know.

 

I feel like it can all be boiled down to "imagination", because imo PoE's biggest weakness ended up being how safe it plays. It tries to stay extremely close to D&D with a few redesigned things, but it doesn't port any of the good D&D gameplay elements over. If you'd ask me if I'd rather play any of the late 90s/early 00s RPGs or PoE, I'd probably say the first.

 

There are a lot of elements that can be imported over from different games as well - the factions from New Vegas and how they changed the world depending on the PC's actions, the dialogue reactivity from Alpha Protocol, where you'd miss tons of characters and some areas if you went one path or the other. I don't remember the name of a single character or guild from PoE, other than Thaos, and I played through PoE twice.

 

Honestly have no idea how PoE got as much praise as it did. As a side note, does anyone know where PoE2 will take place?

[VahnXIII]

 

I guess I want to have my cake and eat it too. BG2 did wonderful with Athkatla and the surrounding wilderness areas whereas BG1 had sprawling wilderness between each important location. Though I did like the area with the Ankhegs, the Friendly Arm Inn, Beregost, Gilikin, Nashkel, and of course the city of BG itself. I thought the areas were well done and provided content instead of areas that were simply populated with enemies. POE could have done better in that area I think.

 

One of the things I didn't like all that much about BG2 was that there weren't many wilderness areas. It was really interesting to wander through some of these in BG1, and you met quite a few people there too, with quests and other stuff going on. PoE had a good balance here tbh, though there could have been more quests in the 'wilderness' areas, at least for my taste. It would have given us some more options for taking a break from Defiance Bay to go elsewhere for a little while. I felt the pacing in the early part of the game was better, and it got a bit overwhelming or messy once in Defiance Bay. I was really excited when getting there the first time, imagining maybe it would be like getting to Baldur's Gate. Although BG city could be pretty overwhelming and confusing too (with a million buildings), Defiance Bay simply didn't work as well. A minor point maybe, but for such a big-ish city, it's odd that it's only possible to recruit one companion there. Most of the districts don't have all that much going on either, mostly just a few buildings with liberal littering of backer NPCs.

 

Perhaps we shouldn't look back to BG so much, but it's such an easy thing to do since those games worked so marvellously well.

 

Also, cake is awesome!

 

 

 

I too was a little disappointed in Defiance Bay. The intro mentioned the streets were packed with refugees and nervous guards while the dozens were busy riling up the populous. I thought for sure I was going to see just that....nope. You get some merchants, a plethora of static "backer NPC's" and maybe 1-2 random NPC's walking about. That's it. Even the inns seem desolate. It was quite the letdown. 

 

Athkatla was done much better -- hell Baldur's Gate was done much better. Hopefully POE2 will do a better job of creating a true bustling city.

 

Please note this is me nitpicking as I absolutely love the game. I just tend to get upset when I see potential that wasn't capitalized on.

[Fayer]

I'd also love more battle themes, including actual badass "final boss theme". I really enjoyed Durgan's Battery fight music, and White March soundtrack overall and going back to these original 2(I believe?) battle themes was just kinda disappointing.

[Climhazzard]

• All the talents need to be revamped...no more useless talents or talents that don't noticeably change gameplay. In summary get rid of trash talents 

For sure.... like, mortification of the soul...

 

 

 

• Developers need to play and tune the game on the highest PoTD difficulty. This is to ensure no challenges are impossible to overcome. (I could not kill Adra Dragon on PoTD)

Plenty of people have beat everything on PoTD, there are other difficulties to choose from.

 

 

 

 

• Reduce the number of party members to four

With 6 parties can be more varied, and you can play with 4 if you want.

 

 

 

 

• Let us customize companions from the start of the game. Do not give us random stat distribution NPCs to salvage from their miserable attributes (Sorry Pallegina...)

Would be kind of nice but the option to make your own companions is in game already.  Would like to be able to change the level 1 talent pick though.

 

 

 

 

• All classes should have natural regeneration of health, even if some classes have more than others. Natural regeneration should be upgrade-able with talents

The game balance was largely based around rest management.  I like it but I wouldn't mind it being changed one way or the other, eliminating rest management would require large rebalancing of per/rest spell caster classes, some argue that should happen anyways.

 

Also don't forget that there are talents available you can use to recover health.

 

 

 

• Plan for expansions from the start including the maximum level cap and talents. Scaling an area up because the player's level is too high  breaks the flow of the game and really is an odd way to implement an expansion

The content level scaling is definitely a bit awkward.  Probably happened because PoE was crowdfunded so they weren't sure if they would be able to do an expansion or not.

 

 

 

 

• Players should be rewarded for designing good character builds. Remove the over dependence of classes on gear to be viable. (Forgemaster Gloves I am looking at you)

Some builds are certainly item dependent, but not all of them are, you could always play the ascetic monk.  Tanks/casters can all get by with no special items, monks only really need the shod in faith boots but they aren't a necessity either.  Item design is varied and interesting, it's nice to be able to design characters around them.

 

 

 

 

• After a trap is detected, there is no reason for companions to run into them. Bonus against traps should increase upon detection

It would be really nice if the AI could be set to avoid hostile ground effects, but I could also see it leading to some unexpected chaos when enemies cast a ground effect in the middle of your party.  I usually turn the AI off if I find that positioning is very important for my current tactic.

 

 

 

• A single attribute like Resolve should not dominate when it comes to dialog options. A resolve of 18 in PoE was enough to get the PC through most of the dialog options. Dialog options should be distributed better among the attributes

Highly agree.

 

 

 

• The bounties seemed 'tacked on' to me. the XP gain for those missions did not match overall game balance

Everything about the stronghold was basically tacked on, another issue related to the game being crowdfunded I'm sure.  It still had a lot more to it than the stronghold in BG2 though for example.

 

 

 

• There should be more opportunities for people to gain attribute points through questing. The three in PoE (heritage hill, Council of Stars, Skaen Temple) were not enough

There's more than 3 for sure... http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Talent  But I agree, I like these.

 

 

 

• I personally like min maxing. i like to see what I can squeeze out of a build. There are those who do not like to play that way and that is fine as well. PoE 2 should pay off for both types of play style

Imo the attributes are very well designed, they are all important to every class, any class can easily clear the game with all 13s, or specialize by min/maxing.

 

 

My biggest hope for PoE 2 is that it's 100x less buggy than PoE 1 has been and still is.

[Fenixp]

- No levelled/scaled loot

There's levelled loot in PoE? To my knowledge there's only random loot, and even that's not really random

 

Honestly have no idea how PoE got as much praise as it did.

All in all, it being excellent is a good start :-P Edited July 29, 2016 by Fenixp

[mindswayer]

- No levelled/scaled loot

There's levelled loot in PoE? To my knowledge there's only random loot, and even that's not really random

 

I mentioned "no levelled/scaled loot" because I've been replaying Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim recently, and the scaling in the two later games is absolutely disgusting and completely ruins the game (one of the many things that ruin it, in Skyrim's case). It's also a giant problem in Witcher 3, but thankfully it's mitigated by the fact that you can craft badass gear with the whole Witcher School quests. My comment was more of a "if you ever consider levelled/scaled loot for PoE2, please don't" kind of message to Obsidian. I think random loot can be okay if it's only for "filler" containers, such as sacks or crates, or these small things that usually store food/potions. But for chests in dungeons? Unique enemy (such as bosses) drops? Hell no m8, give me something that's worth my time and effort.

 

But (if you're right, I'm not really sure) removing random loot doesn't magically fix the loot problem, as PoE very well demonstrates with its mountains of worthless magical "unique" items.

 

All in all, it being excellent is a good start :-P 

Did you play the expansion? Because I didn't. Maybe it has some amazing moment or it fixes literally everything? I honestly don't know. From what I read online the companions aren't an improvement either, aside from the monk dude who appears to have some comical moments.

Edited July 29, 2016 by mindswayer

[DreamWayfarer]

But (if you're right, I'm not really sure) removing random loot doesn't magically fix the loot problem, as PoE very well demonstrates with its mountains of worthless magical "unique" items.

 

Excuse me, but... are we talking about the same PoE? Maybe I expend too much time in the Character Builds subforum, but the magical and unique items in PoE didn't feel worthless at all, just the kind of build-specific thing that you use more on future playthroughs, instead of instant keys to victory..

[Fenixp]

I mentioned "no levelled/scaled loot" because I've been replaying Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim recently, and the scaling in the two later games is absolutely disgusting and completely ruins the game (one of the many things that ruin it, in Skyrim's case). It's also a giant problem in Witcher 3, but thankfully it's mitigated by the fact that you can craft badass gear with the whole Witcher School quests. My comment was more of a "if you ever consider levelled/scaled loot for PoE2, please don't" kind of message to Obsidian. I think random loot can be okay if it's only for "filler" containers, such as sacks or crates, or these small things that usually store food/potions. But for chests in dungeons? Unique enemy (such as bosses) drops? Hell no m8, give me something that's worth my time and effort.

Ooh, I see. Yeah I totally agree with that.

 

But (if you're right, I'm not really sure) removing random loot doesn't magically fix the loot problem, as PoE very well demonstrates with its mountains of worthless magical "unique" items.

There's actually a decent amount of pretty amazing items in PoE, it's just none of them is a "I win now" button. There's a lot of nuance to PoE's underlying mechanics which'll kind of make you appreciate quirks of a lot of unique gear throughout the game.

 

Did you play the expansion? Because I didn't. Maybe it has some amazing moment or it fixes literally everything? I honestly don't know. From what I read online the companions aren't an improvement either, aside from the monk dude who appears to have some comical moments.

Yes, but I fell in love with PoE on my first playtrough, without the expansions even. It surpassed all my expectations and pretty much instantly surpassed all Infinity Engine games for me. As for the expansions, they're like distillation of the best content PoE has to offer, which... Probably isn't much for you, considering.

[Fayer]

 

Did you play the expansion? Because I didn't. Maybe it has some amazing moment or it fixes literally everything? I honestly don't know. From what I read online the companions aren't an improvement either, aside from the monk dude who appears to have some comical moments.

 

 

Expansion is pretty solid, albeit short. I personally liked new companions, Monk is a great comic relief plenty of times, and Maneha's voice actress, well I fell in love

 

Aside from finally some musical variety and generally much more developed locations than in vanilla, it felt much more roleplay-like, more options that referred to your race, background and so on.

 

The only striking flaw I can come up with, besides it being short is that level cap increase wasn't particularly striking, you can still reach it easily before finishing the game, which makes completing side-quests way less alluring.

 

 

Back to original topic, more locations and quests like Raedric's Hold, I loved that I could sneak my way through to the throne room, killing only few not necessarily fresh flesh enemies. Since you do not get experience out of opponents, besides first few instances of completing your Journal data, sneaking past them would be a lovely option, instead of locations like Searing Falls(ugh)

 

Edited July 30, 2016 by Fayer

[DreamWayfarer]

The only striking flaw I can come up with, besides it being short is that level cap increase wasn't particularly striking, you can still reach it easily before finishing the game, which makes completing side-quests way less alluring.

 

Why would that even be a flaw? I'd rather have enough of the game left to properly enjoy my unpareled power by the tine I reach the level cap, and the only reason one should have to complete sidequests is because it is fun or fits the character you are roleplaying. The idea that getting rewards for playing the game is more important than the gameplay itself being rewarding turns games into endless grinding, while if the gameplay itself is fun it should be its own reward.

[Fayer]

 

The only striking flaw I can come up with, besides it being short is that level cap increase wasn't particularly striking, you can still reach it easily before finishing the game, which makes completing side-quests way less alluring.

Why would that even be a flaw? I'd rather have enough of the game left to properly enjoy my unpareled power by the tine I reach the level cap, and the only reason one should have to complete sidequests is because it is fun or fits the character you are roleplaying. The idea that getting rewards for playing the game is more important than the gameplay itself being rewarding turns games into endless grinding, while if the gameplay itself is fun it should be its own reward.

 

 

 

I honestly wouldn't mind if a completionist playthrough would allow you to get level 16, perhaps 17 and no higher.

 

But what I dislike is that once you get 16, your exp bar ceases to go any further and while I still enjoy the gameplay very much, I do not feel as rewarded as earlier on, I'd want at least artificial illusion of progress, that my character keeps developing itself. Setting next level requirements very high to make them unreachable would honestly drive me forward more. I'd be like: "damn I completed so many sidequests but the bar keeps going, I must have missed something". Pretty sure stuff like that would make me replay the game sometime later and try exploring even more to see if I have missed something crucial(replayability!)

Edited July 30, 2016 by Fayer

[DreamWayfarer]

 

 

 

The only striking flaw I can come up with, besides it being short is that level cap increase wasn't particularly striking, you can still reach it easily before finishing the game, which makes completing side-quests way less alluring.

Why would that even be a flaw? I'd rather have enough of the game left to properly enjoy my unpareled power by the tine I reach the level cap, and the only reason one should have to complete sidequests is because it is fun or fits the character you are roleplaying. The idea that getting rewards for playing the game is more important than the gameplay itself being rewarding turns games into endless grinding, while if the gameplay itself is fun it should be its own reward.

I honestly wouldn't mind if a completionist playthrough would allow you to get level 16, perhaps 17 and no higher.

 

But what I dislike is that once you get 16, your exp bar ceases to go any further and while I still enjoy the gameplay very much, I do not feel as rewarded as earlier on, I'd want at least artificial illusion of progress, that my character keeps developing itself.

Maybe it is because I am a serial re-roller, but for me the "progression" represented by characters leveling up is more of a boring wait until they reach mid levels and things become interesting.

 

Power progression divided from story elements is not development to me, only a wait that may be necessary for the game to work, but isn't exciting.

Edited July 30, 2016 by DreamWayfarer

[Sannom]

There's levelled loot in PoE? To my knowledge there's only random loot, and even that's not really random

Lots of enemies with Fine/Exceptional weapons once you get to a certain level.

[Fenixp]

Lots of enemies with Fine/Exceptional weapons once you get to a certain level.

The important distinction to make is whether all opponents using items magically get fine/exceptional items when you reach certain level or whether in more difficult areas, there are opponents only armed with fine/exceptional items. The former is level scaling, the latter is not. (not that I'm strictly opposed to level scaling, sometimes it's necessary as Obsidian promptly found out after introducing White March.) Edited July 30, 2016 by Fenixp

[kanisatha]

Going to turn-based or reducing the party size would be major red-lines for me that would kill my interest in the game. With the latter, I tend to get very attached to the companions and already have a very hard time deciding which ones to leave behind when setting up my party. Anything less than six party members would not sit well with me at all.

[Loren Tyr]

Going to turn-based or reducing the party size would be major red-lines for me that would kill my interest in the game. With the latter, I tend to get very attached to the companions and already have a very hard time deciding which ones to leave behind when setting up my party. Anything less than six party members would not sit well with me at all.

 

Seconded. And thirded. 

[demeisen]

 

Going to turn-based or reducing the party size would be major red-lines for me that would kill my interest in the game. With the latter, I tend to get very attached to the companions and already have a very hard time deciding which ones to leave behind when setting up my party. Anything less than six party members would not sit well with me at all.

 

Seconded. And thirded. 

 

 

And fourthed.  I actually like turn based combat CRPGs a lot, but it wouldn't be PoE any more that way.  Also, a smaller party would remove a lot of the tactical interest that's available now.  You'd have to go less specialized and more general with character builds, and there wouldn't be as many positional tactics possible.  On the other hand, a larger party would become unwieldy, especially in hard fights where you need to micro them all.  I feel they made the right call with party size for PoE1.  Hope it stays for PoE2.