Meshugger Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Uh, one thing. How much money is being funneled here by the ones named? How much money in lost taxes are each one guilty of? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Not so surprising to be honest, our current systems breed corruption by empowering the fraudulent and dishonest. Not sure this is fair to the reality of the modern world? Most systems work and deliver more good than bad. Corruption is a choice ultimately...yes there are factors that influence corruption but I still believe its a choice Also what systems reward the dishonest ? I know this point is subjective but because you live in Denmark which is consistently rated as one of the least most corrupt countries in the world I am interested in what systems you would consider so flawed? It frightens me how corrupt the rest of the world must really be, when we get voted least corrupt. In relation to this it was just revealed that Danish nationals annually hide upwards of 200 billion kroner each year, in contrast the state earned 1 trillion. That's a pretty big share of our potential income being tax dodged. Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 How do average Danes dodge taxes? Arent they automatically taken out of your pay check or does it operate on the honor system? "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 How do average Danes dodge taxes? Arent they automatically taken out of your pay check or does it operate on the honor system? It's automatically taken from your paycheck, but you're free to edit deductions etc yourself and give corrections. If very clear indications of tampered inconsistencies are discovered however, the fines can be pretty brutal. The Scandinavian tax laws are however some of the most complex in the world, where you can basically get taxed (or get tax refunds) under a myriad of conditions. Policy makers have been on an austerity campaign against the tax system for the better part of 2 decades now (both left and right) and have pretty much succeeded in ****ing it up beyond repair.. which they then of course blame on the system itself, meaning a lot of the specialized workers have fled to greener pastures as spin doctors or worse yet, personal consultants for the very very rich. Rich nationals can therefore remove their taxable income in much the same as many of the leaked papers show, through investments etc.. and many of the richest in Denmark are also personal friends of policy makers and high level bankers etc, which makes it a even easier to dodge the system. It's a small country after all even more so in the corridors of power. The only reason it's not worse is probably what you would call an "honor system", and likely the reason we're called the least corrupt, it's considered improper in the extreme to cheat the system excessively (although 'a little' never hurt anyone apparently). The comparison to your system would be that Clinton would never have been booted out of office here for his affair, we don't really care about that - personal matters are personal.. but if you're caught doing severe financial crimes, your career is basically over, political or otherwise. 2 Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Average Danes move abroad to dodge taxes Serious answer: It happens automatically. Part of your pay goes in the bank, part of it goes to "The Tax Man", which includes state, county and council taxes. You never see that part of your pay. Since all Danes have a serial no. (called CPR No.) from birth and every transaction you do short of a few dollar cash transactions at the ice cream vendor, are traceable to your serial no. Makes it relatively easy to detect irregular patterns. I.e. if you keep spending large amounts above your declared income. 2 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Average Danes move abroad to dodge taxes And even so are often forced to pay taxes back home any way.. heh Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartimaeus Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 As a result of being connected with the corruption mentioned in these leaks, the Prime Minister of Iceland resigned this morning. Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Icelandic leader resigns over Panama Papers revelations on wife's holdings. EDIT: Ninjad' 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartimaeus Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Hey, sources are always good to add. Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flouride Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Hah, Jyrki Katainen (some banking minister high up in the EU) is calling this a cancer. It's funny when it was his political party and his successor that tried their hardest earlier this year or last year to get amnesty to people who have off shore bank accounts that they would be able to transfer their funds back to Finland and not be charged with anything... Would have definately been a great timing if that law had passed. 2 Hate the living, love the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) How do average Danes dodge taxes? Arent they automatically taken out of your pay check or does it operate on the honor system? It's automatically taken from your paycheck, but you're free to edit deductions etc yourself and give corrections. If very clear indications of tampered inconsistencies are discovered however, the fines can be pretty brutal. The Scandinavian tax laws are however some of the most complex in the world, where you can basically get taxed (or get tax refunds) under a myriad of conditions. Policy makers have been on an austerity campaign against the tax system for the better part of 2 decades now (both left and right) and have pretty much succeeded in ****ing it up beyond repair.. which they then of course blame on the system itself, meaning a lot of the specialized workers have fled to greener pastures as spin doctors or worse yet, personal consultants for the very very rich. Rich nationals can therefore remove their taxable income in much the same as many of the leaked papers show, through investments etc.. and many of the richest in Denmark are also personal friends of policy makers and high level bankers etc, which makes it a even easier to dodge the system. It's a small country after all even more so in the corridors of power. The only reason it's not worse is probably what you would call an "honor system", and likely the reason we're called the least corrupt, it's considered improper in the extreme to cheat the system excessively (although 'a little' never hurt anyone apparently). The comparison to your system would be that Clinton would never have been booted out of office here for his affair, we don't really care about that - personal matters are personal.. but if you're caught doing severe financial crimes, your career is basically over, political or otherwise. clinton would never have been kicked outta office for an affair... and he wasn't. the issue were the lies. is almost always the coverup that is the real problem with affairs n' similar stuff. clinton were effective disbarred (a 9 year suspension after which he could retake the bar for readmission) not 'cause o' the affair, but for lying. the suspension, by the way, were a relative slap on the wrist. clinton were gonna be indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice stemming from testimony in clinton v. jones. the former President managed to get one o' the sweetest plea deals... evar. 'stead o' going forward with the criminal case, clinton were allowed to sacrifice his law license. chalk up Gromnir as one who thought the affair stuff were overblown. is not as if clinton's serial philandering were some kinda secret, and we didn't much care in any event. as far as we were concerned, clinton extramarital behavior were tabloid fodder that didn't alter our opinion o' the man As President. that being said, the media and the clintons did an excellent job o' obscuring the reality o' the situation. potential being booted from office and the likelihood o' a criminal trial for perjury were not 'bout the affair. has always been misrepresented. HA! Good Fun! ps am always amused when the suspension o' clinton's license is described as voluntary. is also noteworthy that clinton approval levels were highest (historical high) immediate following the impeachment vote. am thinking that the perception that the average american cared 'bout clinton's affairs has been misrepresented, though some o' that is to be expected given that so many pundits here in the US expected more negative backlash from the lewinsky nonsense. regardless, the real threat to the President being booted were not 'cause o' the affair, but 'cause o' arguable criminal lies. Edited April 5, 2016 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agiel Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Keep an eye out for names like "Valerie Viloden" and "Cashmere Poutine"! 1 Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Should be noted that among those found so far within the shell companies were also Spains former Kings sister, a Front for Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions, David Cameron's dad (who hasn't paid a red cent in tax for over 30 years), Fifa, The boss of an anti-corruption org in Chile, the PM in Pakistan, King of Saudi Arabia. So far nothing major seems to have hit with a US citizen (although several Americans passports were in the documents because the owners were using shell companies to buy property in Latin America. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Allegedly Hillary's campaign manager is indirectly in there. I'm guessing that's not exactly the most impartial source though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsuelm Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 This entire thing is BS to a large degree. If it wasn't, the documents would be publicly available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 This entire thing is BS to a large degree. If it wasn't, the documents would be publicly available. Nonono, they are doing it "responsibly", you understand. They aren't Wikileaks. When was Bruce appointed as head of ICIJ and why didn't I get the memo? Ah, but who cares... - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Hiding money to conceal ownership isn't illegal. Besides, you can't assume they are all tax evaders, even though they probably are. The papers would be exposing themselves to libel from hundreds of habitual and recreational plaintiffs. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerond Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Sass is real in this one 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilloutman Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Sass is real in this one ouch, that must hurt I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 Pretty much all Snowden has to offer now. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 (edited) This entire thing is BS to a large degree. If it wasn't, the documents would be publicly available. Nonono, they are doing it "responsibly", you understand. They aren't Wikileaks. When was Bruce appointed as head of ICIJ and why didn't I get the memo? Ah, but who cares... Well obviously we shouldn't assume everything in these documents are true, countries need to do there own investigations This is not the same as confidential US Diplomatic cables being leaked that could directly impact the US security. I would have assumed the distinction would be obvious 2133? Edited April 6, 2016 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Sass is real in this one Elerond you know David Camerons father is dead? He has been dead for 6-7 years now "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerond Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 (edited) Sass is real in this one Elerond you know David Camerons father is dead? He has been dead for 6-7 years now Do it change the fact that Cameron himself has spoken against privacy protections (in certain circumstances)? EDIT: As fun fact one of the Finnish owned companies exposed by these papers had dead CEO over 10 years, until somebody noticed that their company's official front had died over decade ago Edited April 6, 2016 by Elerond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Ooops http://www.ibtimes.com/panama-papers-obama-clinton-pushed-trade-deal-amid-warnings-it-would-make-money-2348076 Years before more than a hundred media outlets around the world released stories Sunday exposing a massive network of global tax evasion detailed in the so-called Panama Papers, U.S. President Barack Obama and then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton pushed for a Bush administration-negotiated free trade agreement that watchdogs warned would only make the situation worse. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Look who had the foresight again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a25fZFKtJ7s 2 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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