FBI finds backdoor to Apple phones

[Elerond]

Israelis...interesting. I can believe that as the Israelis have some of the most experienced hackers in the world and some Israeli hackers are state sponsored 

 

 

I heard that story about the FBI trying to get access to all devices through public fear...I find it hard to believe. What would be the purpose of this ...seriously? To keep the Democrats in power...to ensure a new USA political order could come to power, to usher in a new reign of mankind ? That theory starts to sound like a conspiracy theory IMO  

 

 

I would say that they come from so called "good place". They just want to have access to devices in ways that let them to get information from them that they need to solve crimes in fast and easy way, they don't necessary think what risks come with things they want and what they mean globally. FBI has asked backdoors, skeleton keys, etc. things for same reasons in past.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Elerond

[BruceVC]

 

Israelis...interesting. I can believe that as the Israelis have some of the most experienced hackers in the world and some Israeli hackers are state sponsored 

 

 

I heard that story about the FBI trying to get access to all devices through public fear...I find it hard to believe. What would be the purpose of this ...seriously? To keep the Democrats in power...to ensure a new USA political order could come to power, to usher in a new reign of mankind ? That theory starts to sound like a conspiracy theory IMO  

 

 

I would say that they come from so called "good place". They just want to have access to devices in ways that let them to get information from them that they need to solve crimes in fast and easy way, they don't necessary think what risks come with things they want and what they mean globally. FBI has asked backdoors, skeleton keys, etc. things for same reasons in past.

 

Fair enough, I get your point about the potential abuse  that may happen in the future ....I still think you have to weigh up the reality that encrypted devices are used to plan acts of terrorism and do you believe your government has a right to access those devices implicated in a terrorist attack?

 

For the answer is an emphatic and unquestionable " yes..as your government needs to protect its citizens and this is clearly an example of information gathering which is very important to state security when dealing like many global threats...like Islamic Extremism " 

[Elerond]

I would say that my government, police, military or other security agencies don't need access to said devices to prevent terrorist attacks. Access to those devices may make it easier to prevent said attacks or find people that are responsible of said attacks, but as long as those devices aren't used to actually do those attacks, it is safety say that officials don't need access to them to prevent said attacks.

 

But in countries where speaking against your government can lead to arrest or even death penalty it is absolutely necessary to offer people ability talk with each other so that government can't intervene on that communication, if we want to spread our western values around globe. Also more and more personal information about people are in their devices and in digital services, which also means that people are more vulnerable against hacks and other information thefts that security of said devices and services has become more important than it has ever been.

 

So in end it comes to question which security is more important to people. 

 

 

EDIT: It is question like what automatically driving car should decide if it needs to decide between maneuver that saves people inside car and maneuver that saves more people but who aren't in the car and same time risking lives of those inside the car. These are questions where there aren't easy answers and people's preferences change depending on which they find more likely to touch themselves in day they answer the question.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Elerond

[Gfted1]

All of that can be said about PC's too, which are even easier to hack. Pretending that phones are a sacred cow doesn't make sense to me. If the gov is "gonna get you", this one small speedbump isn't going to stop them.

[BruceVC]

I would say that my government, police, military or other security agencies don't need access to said devices to prevent terrorist attacks. Access to those devices may make it easier to prevent said attacks or find people that are responsible of said attacks, but as long as those devices aren't used to actually do those attacks, it is safety say that officials don't need access to them to prevent said attacks.

 

But in countries where speaking against your government can lead to arrest or even death penalty it is absolutely necessary to offer people ability talk with each other so that government can't intervene on that communication, if we want to spread our western values around globe. Also more and more personal information about people are in their devices and in digital services, which also means that people are more vulnerable against hacks and other information thefts that security of said devices and services has become more important than it has ever been.

 

So in end it comes to question which security is more important to people. 

 

 

EDIT: It is question like what automatically driving car should decide if it needs to decide between maneuver that saves people inside car and maneuver that saves more people but who aren't in the car and same time risking lives of those inside the car. These are questions where there aren't easy answers and people's preferences change depending on which they find more likely to touch themselves in day they answer the question.

As usual you  raise some good points, we do want to spread Western values but  I recognize the political reality that some people live. We can't implement Western values straight away... unfortunately we know this doesn't work. So to avoid what you talking about why do we assume that this Apple device hack that was used will ever be seen on the Internet?

 

Seriously lets be honest, there are software viruses and code hacks created by cyber-espionage government divisions that people dont know about, there such things as data that is secretive? Lets say the Israelis  created it...the source code will be very well protected as the Israelis know how to make things secure

 

So I can argue there is no real  risk with this hack getting into some dictators hands 

 

All of that can be said about PC's too, which are even easier to hack. Pretending that phones are a sacred cow doesn't make sense to me. If the gov is "gonna get you", this one small speedbump isn't going to stop them.

This is actually a very good point...and extremely relevant, I missed it completely 

 

We already have far too much of our personal data on PC...and we know with programs like Prism the NSA really could hack your PC. So does accessing a device really make that much more of a difference?

[Elerond]

You need just one Snowden in your organization and lots of your well guarded secrets will be seen by most of the world or possibly only highest bidder.

 

Also I would guess that it is actually some vulnerability in Apple's hardware that has made it possible to read phone's cryptographic key from devices memory in some point and bypass the data encryption.

[Volourn]

FBI nazis = Nazi. It likely won't take them long to abuse this and find away to steal and destroy people because that is what the FBI does.

[Fighter]

I remember reading the initial news and was surprised this was even an issue. Things get hacked all the time and by people with far less resources than a government.

[Meshugger]

FBI contracted a Israeli security company? Well, after stuxnet and it's successors, nobody should be surprised really.

[Tigranes]

The longstanding norm in this stuff is that intelligence services find out a security breach, they exploit it for a while, and when they feel that the balance of its usefulness has tipped (e.g. they think it's been long enough that unsavoury parties will cotton on to it too), they inform the tech companies. 

 

FBI telling Apple how they did it after a 'grace period' is the norm; Apple building a backdoor OS for them is pretty much unprecedented. Of course, the FBI may now wish to change this norm to a more antagonistic relationship. 

[Wrath of Dagon]

We don't know if it's the latest iPhone they hacked, do we?

[ShadySands]

I think it was the 5c not whatever the current iPhone is. Dunno if it had the most up to date iOS either but I'm assuming it can't be 9.2 or later since those were released after the shooting

Edited March 30, 2016 by ShadySands

[majestic]

Imagine for a moment any US company having their telephones cracked through a security flaw that is known to third parties but not to the developing company and this would cause some massive financial loss, e.g. due to a missed trade deal or undercutting, causing that money to go to say, some Russian  company instead.

 

Would you be up in arms and demand better protection for trade secrets or would you go like "ah well, that happens, at least them terrerists can't hide stuff111!!oneone"?

Edited March 30, 2016 by majestic

[Meshugger]

Ah, remember the good old days when it was impossible for the government to listen to a landline telephone and when mail envelopes were unbreakable.

 

Good times.

[BruceVC]

Ah, remember the good old days when it was impossible for the government to listen to a landline telephone and when mail envelopes were unbreakable.

 

Good times.

Those were in fact the " bad old days ", countries and there citizens were less safe and information gathering was less effective

 

Yes, we are now living in good times due to the advancements of how governments can protect citizens from existential threats 

Edited March 31, 2016 by BruceVC

[Meshugger]

 

Ah, remember the good old days when it was impossible for the government to listen to a landline telephone and when mail envelopes were unbreakable.

 

Good times.

Those were in fact the " bad old days ", countries and there citizens were less safe and information gathering was less effective

 

Yes, we are now living in good times due to the advancements of how governments can protect citizens from existential threats 

 

 

Hahahahahhahahhahahha

[Hiro Protagonist]

A number of governments and organisations have already done this. I'm wondering why this is news. I don't understand why the FBI went public. If anything, I find it funny that the FBI asked for Apple's help when at least one US government department already had the means to do this. Why they went to Apple baffles me.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Hiro Protagonist

[majestic]

 

 

Ah, remember the good old days when it was impossible for the government to listen to a landline telephone and when mail envelopes were unbreakable.

 

Good times.

Those were in fact the " bad old days ", countries and there citizens were less safe and information gathering was less effective

 

Yes, we are now living in good times due to the advancements of how governments can protect citizens from existential threats

And you really wonder why posters think you're trolling.

[Blarghagh]

What's an existential threat?

[BruceVC]

What's an existential threat?

Something that threatens your existence...so a terrorist attack that kills indiscriminately 

[Blarghagh]

Huh. I've never heard anyone use the word existential outside of philosophical discussion. I guess I'll take your word for it.

[Elerond]

You see it used time to time in context like this "Obama dismisses idea of ISIL as existential threat"

[Blarghagh]

I guess not being native to an English speaking country, sometimes you miss some word uses. You learn something new every day.

[BruceVC]

I guess not being native to an English speaking country, sometimes you miss some word uses. You learn something new every day.

 I still think English must be a difficult language to learn with the huge and varied vocabulary ?

 

But also in this case saying Islamic Extremism is an existential threat to Western countries  is subjective, so you wont often hear it 

[majestic]

 I still think English must be a difficult language to learn with the huge and varied vocabulary ?

 

Eh, no, English is easy enough and it's not really the varied vocabulary that is a problem. One can make do with only a handful of words after all. The biggest issue is learning the messed up pronunciation, especially if you come from a language where the written word gives you clear instructions on how to, well, say it.

 

Or in other words, something's a bit rotten in a language where good and food don't rhyme.