Third Expansion

[limaxophobiacq]

 

 

SOA started at level 8 or so though, and ended right before you got 9th level spells, which is a lot closer to where PoE ends than BG1 is, and people complained about Throne of Bhaal for the over the top epicness of it all.

 

 

We've already talked about this, haven't we? http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83339-poe-2/?p=1756174

 

 

Oh hey we did! I'd say I need to stop drinking but I don't really drink.

 

Actually reading it now having seen level 8 spells and WM II content that idea doesn't sound too bad.

Edited February 22, 2016 by limaxophobiacq

[Urthor]

I really don't understand how people can call PoE a low level campaign when, by the end, you're killing dragons, very high level wizards and thwarting powerful secret societies. Sure, it starts off at low level, but I'd say the majority of the game covers Shadows of Amn level territory rather than Baldur's Gate level territory.

 

As for epic level stuff, I prefer that to come in expansions because if I don't enjoy it I really don't enjoy it. I don't want to wait a couple of years for PoE2 and then get an epic level campaign that I don't enjoy. Ideally PoE2 will start a new story, reach higher levels in the main campaign, then have an epic level DLC that happens strictly after the main campaign in the style of Throne of Bhaal (thus bypassing wonky difficulty problems).

 

It was pretty low level without expansions mechanically.  Narratively, yeah, to paraphrase Todd Howard "the world was definitely eating itself."   But if you look at the kind of spells you see at lvl 6 for example, it was definitely nothing like lvl 9 2nd ed spells that's for sure.  

 

 

White March has definitely brought it up to a high level finish.  Lvl 16 feels like lvl 18, well probably lvl 16 in 2nd Ed there's no timestop, but still.  They probably planned it out as "high level stuff in the expansions" and then kind of regretted it a little is my guess, which is why they said they would make a future game a high level campaign that went all the way to lvl 18.  

[Osvir]

 

 

 

 

I think it is good time to set sails to another story. I am a bit tired of Thaos.

Set sails indeed.... off to the islands of Rautaui! :D

 

And your stronghold being.... a Ship! (Don't remember who suggested this but it was someone on this forum)

 

EDIT: As for a Pillars of Eternity 2 High-Level Campaign (Some brainstorming):

 

A) Continue with the "Watcher", now a Duke or Lord with troops and soldiers under his/her command. Hire low-level and mid-level adventurers to conquer the world. A Jagged Alliance, Battle Brothers, XCOM, Real time or Turn Based RPG hybrid. That could accomodate both the feeling of "The Watcher is really powerful now" and getting the Low-Level and Mid-Level campaign. Basically a Low-Level AND High-Level Campaign in one game.

 

Face an army with your army, and defeat the leader of that army with the Watcher in a duel. Hmm.... that... that might just work.

 

1) You are a Pirate Lord, Captain of the Ship.

2) Your hirelings, adventurers, and companions, destroying the enemy opposition...

3) ... and you dueling against the enemy captain in the end.

 

Your hirelings could scout islands (under your control), search for treasure and such, and when they encounter a big enough encounter, your character steps in to deal with it. I could see it working a little bit like the Stronghold missions, press a button to send scouts or patrols to various locations, and after X amount of in-game time you get a notification "We found something!" and then you get to control your High-Level group to deal with it (and skip all the thrash mobs along the way, go straight to the encounter/event).

 

B) Play as an entirely new character.... or even a Dual- or Twin-Campaign~ basically, either "Start New Game" as a new character, with new beginnings, having his/her own adventures going from Point B to Point A, or continue with a Watcher character who is going the typical Point A to Point B. This solution would give Players who want a new character, a new character, and it'd also give Players who want to continue with the Watcher, to continue.

This sounds not like the game, I want PoE 2 to be. Not in the slightest. I hope, nothing of this will come true. Keep it oldschool. Also, there is the Risen-Franchise for those, who can't get enough of Pirates of the Carribean in their CRPG.

Rauatai http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Rauatai

 

Aumaua (20'000 year old culture of exploring+settling)

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Aumaua

 

*shrug*

 

With or without piracy/captain/my suggestion/wish, this area is part of the Eora world (the one Pillars of Eternity is set in) and I think it's an interesring location that I want to explore further. Furthermore, Kana Rua is one of my fav companions, and would like to companion again, and also see his fate :D

[FlintlockJazz]

I reckon they could continue the Watcher's story in PoE 2 if they want to as an epic level campaign, but if they did I would want them to do two things: first I would want them to NOT do PoE 2 next, but rather other games set in the same setting with new characters but in different places, in order for them to better flesh out the world.  So we get to see the Vailian Republics, learn more about how Godlikes come about, see just what the Deadfire Archipelago is like, find out what the Pale Elf society is supposed to be like, debate the meaning of life in Ixamitl, etc etc. 

 

Then, PoE 2 would be a epic level campaign for levels 16-30 wherein we get to really shake this now fully fleshed out and established setting to the core, perhaps by travelling to the literal core of the world where the souls travel via the adra to be reincarnated where we then become the new embodiment of Eothas or something. 

[Eisenheinrich]

 

 

 

I think it is good time to set sails to another story. I am a bit tired of Thaos.

Set sails indeed.... off to the islands of Rautaui! :D

 

And your stronghold being.... a Ship! (Don't remember who suggested this but it was someone on this forum)

 

EDIT: As for a Pillars of Eternity 2 High-Level Campaign (Some brainstorming):

 

A) Continue with the "Watcher", now a Duke or Lord with troops and soldiers under his/her command. Hire low-level and mid-level adventurers to conquer the world. A Jagged Alliance, Battle Brothers, XCOM, Real time or Turn Based RPG hybrid. That could accomodate both the feeling of "The Watcher is really powerful now" and getting the Low-Level and Mid-Level campaign. Basically a Low-Level AND High-Level Campaign in one game.

 

Face an army with your army, and defeat the leader of that army with the Watcher in a duel. Hmm.... that... that might just work.

 

1) You are a Pirate Lord, Captain of the Ship.

2) Your hirelings, adventurers, and companions, destroying the enemy opposition...

3) ... and you dueling against the enemy captain in the end.

 

Your hirelings could scout islands (under your control), search for treasure and such, and when they encounter a big enough encounter, your character steps in to deal with it. I could see it working a little bit like the Stronghold missions, press a button to send scouts or patrols to various locations, and after X amount of in-game time you get a notification "We found something!" and then you get to control your High-Level group to deal with it (and skip all the thrash mobs along the way, go straight to the encounter/event).

 

B) Play as an entirely new character.... or even a Dual- or Twin-Campaign~ basically, either "Start New Game" as a new character, with new beginnings, having his/her own adventures going from Point B to Point A, or continue with a Watcher character who is going the typical Point A to Point B. This solution would give Players who want a new character, a new character, and it'd also give Players who want to continue with the Watcher, to continue.

This sounds not like the game, I want PoE 2 to be. Not in the slightest. I hope, nothing of this will come true. Keep it oldschool. Also, there is the Risen-Franchise for those, who can't get enough of Pirates of the Carribean in their CRPG.

Rauatai http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Rauatai

 

Aumaua (20'000 year old culture of exploring+settling)

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Aumaua

 

*shrug*

 

With or without piracy/captain/my suggestion/wish, this area is part of the Eora world (the one Pillars of Eternity is set in) and I think it's an interesring location that I want to explore further. Furthermore, Kana Rua is one of my fav companions, and would like to companion again, and also see his fate :D

 

 

Yeah, I do know that this stuff exists within Eora, but I don't want to see it in a sequel. I guess I just can't stomach a whole game in pseudo-hawaian-2-meter-sized-shark-people-country with some lame ass yohoho-pirates thrown into the mix. Let alone the thought of it leaves me shuddering. Keep it oldschool. I will continue toi state this point until the devs say someting official about the setting of PoE2. 

Edited February 22, 2016 by Eisenheinrich

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

This sounds not like the game, I want PoE 2 to be. Not in the slightest. I hope, nothing of this will come true. Keep it oldschool. Also, there is the Risen-Franchise for those, who can't get enough of Pirates of the Carribean in their CRPG.

 

I've played Risen 2, it is... not good...  I see nothing wrong with letting some PotC into the game, the setting seems open for it.  A ship stronghold would have the benefit of being able to move, which fits a travelling murderhobo, I mean wandering adventurer, a lot more since it can be more accessible.  I think Eora should emphasise some of the Renaissance qualities a bit more, particularly for adventures set in the Vailian Republics, and a nautical type campaign would work well in some of these settings too, perhaps not for PoE 2 but for other games set in Eora definitely.  Pirates swaggering through the docks, swashbucklers beating each other up in the street to prove their fencing style is the best, condottieres hiring PCs for missions (I was bit disappointed that PoE didn't really do more with the Expeditions that the Dyrwood would be good for, it seemed perfect for setting up an expedition hall that the PC could progress through the ranks of, taking on different missions, seeking out backers, creating rivalries etc, rather than the one or two quests you get from the Dozens...), all these could really add to the game I think.

[SkySlam]

It would be nice to continue the story of the watcher, or even to play with someone else, but starting from an higher level (like 7, for example).

Being a "serial restarter", I've had enough of level 1 characters!

 

I'd love to meet my old companions in PoE2 and see how they are doing now, after our adventure together.

I'd also love to meet the gods, in some form. I'm tired of hearing their voices, I want to really meet (and sometimes fight?) Ondra, Wael, Skaen and the true Pallid Knight, not his zombie champions

like Raedric bis

 

 

Also, if PoE was a spiritual successor to BG1, we already know what will come after...

Edited February 22, 2016 by SkySlam

[Rosveen]

I have absolutely nothing against a pirate/naval setting, but from your description that game belongs to a different genre than PoE. Could be a fun spin-off, but definitely not a sequel.

[Valorian]

Absolutely in favor of a new character for a new game. Apart from the reasons already mentioned, it's exciting to build a character from the ground up and seeing the world from a different perspective (i.e. not being a lifelong-vacation-deserving Watcher). Also, being swamped with a lot of abilities from the very beginning is not something I enjoy.

[why]

What I love about these discussions is that we use conjecture to talk about what we think they should do, but I would have to believe that they've already got a plan.  Don't get me wrong.  In the first place, it's cool to discuss these things and all most of us have is conjecture.  Anything I know comes from stuff folks post here, so assumption, extrapolation, and wild assed guessing are all I've got in my arsenal.  After that disclaimer, I also think the broader battles people fight in these forums does have an impact.  I've seen some folks dispute that but, if it weren't clear before the kickstarter, it's absolutely crystalline now that forum battles sway developers, even Obsidian.  Not necessarily in any one forum or any particular thread, but the battle writ large over the internet.  So, I think enough clamoring will have an impact, but that's not necessarily good.

 

I disagree with Infinitron about the Watcher.  I don't want the same character and I don't want to get into the uber epicness that came in the BG series by the time we got into ToB.  However, where he got it right is that we should trust the team that gave us Pillars one to straighten out some of these concerns in Pillars two.  I hope they pay attention to us, the ants down here battling over crumbs in the colony, but I hope they stick to their essential vision which they must have had for some time, I reckon.

 

In the battle of ideas, I aspire to cannon fodder status, but if my fate is to rush headlong into combat only to feed the mortars, so be it.  At least I can add my tiny voice to the volume of folks pushing for one opinion, and if there's one opinion and only one I could choose at this point, it would be to let the design team straighten out the narrative and trust them.  That's the hill where I'd die.  Of course, you don't actually die in forum battles, so I'm still going to push for a new location with a different character and paced so that the epic (whatever that is) tale can be spread out over a longer period of time and much more content.  Leave room in the story so that the xpacs for Pillars two extend the story out rather than injected into the fatty tissue in the middle, and then leave the end so that the big reveal can come in Pillars 3.

[Karrade]

Very, very sad news. I registered just to say I was hoping for the same sort of quality content in a minimum of 3 dlc's, hopefully 5.

The problem most people don't understand with sequels is, you never know, you never know if it'll be as good. It'll certainly never be the same, all games are different, which is why its good to run with a great product people love for a good few DLC's, especially when the DLC's are this good.

Even sadder at the suggestion it is a completely different character and I guess all the companions and our attachments to them will be thrown out the window. What's the point in NOT using some of the material you've developed for years, some of these characters have legs to run for another game. That was something BG2 did right and so many games since have failed to capitalize on.

I guarantee you, I will lay money on it because i've seen it for decades, even if the writers strike gold twice, that people will be saying I wish we had character type X (forget the names or pictures for the sake of simplicity), they will be saying this after the hours and hours they have had becoming used and enjoying character type X, and we'll have the same roundabout debates we've had in almost every RPG i've ever seen in my lifetime regarding the new cast, however well written they are.

You can see the start of it here, in this very thread, people saying that's not the type of game I want for the sequel and different branches about how it will go, pleasing some, not others, we all know this. Well, that's why you put out 3-5 DLC's when you're on a roll, unless its not selling and I am missing something, or you reuse some of the same aspects and cast of the game before.
 

 

[why]

I agree with you about how some players will react, but I disagree about how far reaching it will be. If they put out another xpac and not a sequel, there are fans who would be similarly disappointed and they would likewise complain. I've already made my opinions known, so I won't reiterate them here.

 

However, just as important, welcome to the board! I've only been a member a couple of months myself and there's one thing that's certain, if you don't dig yourself into the trenches, you can't help your side win the battle.

[Abel]

It's perhaps unrealistic, but I really hope the watcher makes a return. Both with the same levels and a powercurve that somehow makes sense.

 

One of my favourite things from the Baldur's Gate games was taking my character on the huge and memorable journey from level 1 to 40,

 

No choice but to quote this, as it is exactly my mind. +1

[Abel]

I want an ambitious Baldur's Gate 2 successor, and so should you. Let the professionals worry about the narrative stuff.

 

Once more, exactly my thought. Infinitron, if you don't understand people wanting a brand new lvl 1 character (which i don't understand either), i, myself, don't understand people saying they want a new lvl 1 character because there is no way to continue the watcher's saga as it is. I mean, Obs has its ideas, and thoughts. They planned since the start to craft a real saga. Saying it's now impossible because we're lvl 16 is really treating obs guys like complete fools. If they want to, they surely can. The fact that we don't see how, is another, irrelevant matter. And thus, i'm totally on the line with Infinitron here.

 

I loved Baldur's gate because i could play an entire saga. A long, appealing, neverending journey. The more i went through the game, the more i learned about the lore, the creatures, and the world. You can't see the world with the same eyes being lvl 1 and being lvl 30. And if i'm to play a lvl 30 character, and to love it as if i saw its birth, better to live his adventuring life from the start. Lvl 1. Saga. Makes sense now i guess.

[Abel]

 

Save importing characters directly would make less sense if they do fix one of the bigger things they've said they've regretted, the attributes, which involves going to a 5 attribute setup.  

 

I think THAT is a far bigger reason against save importing, even if narratively they're super fine with putting the Watcher on the boat to the Aedyran empire, you're prolly going to roll through character creation all over again because Josh is 100% going to go to a 5 attribute system after what has happened.  Sensuki was defo raging about that back in the day before he rq over engagement.  

 

 

I think you're taking some of the stuff you've seen seen on Something Awful a little too seriously. The attribute system isn't a disaster by any means and I haven't seen any hint that Josh is thinking about overhauling it to that degree. Other stuff, yes - resting, the Interrupt mechanic, maybe skills. Attributes? Nah. That Sensuki stuff is old news and ended up being basically a non-issue.

 

 

 

I can't agree this time. Just my two cents, but an example to picture my problem with attribute system as it is:

 

I play a female elf priest of Eothas. I won't browse through her history, but suffice to say that she has a strong link with her faith. Now, to reflect her priestress ability, i put something like 17 in might... And then, this frail little woman could shatter rocks with her bare hands... I say no. She has magical power, but no strenght at all... It really, really bothered me that muscular strenght and magical power were the same attribute. I couldn't find a way to roleplay her in scripted interactions and such (besides doing my best to try to ignore what i see on my screen while trying to be in full immersion: really bad idea)

 

Anyway, while importing your character from BG1 to BG2 you had to browse once more the character creation screen, because some things changed (like weapon proficiencies). Even if the attribute system were to be modified, it's no big deal. A power player will build a power character. An anti power player with still puroposedly trash his PC, and people in between will not have changed either.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Abel

[Abel]

 

I agree with you about how some players will react, but I disagree about how far reaching it will be. If they put out another xpac and not a sequel, there are fans who would be similarly disappointed and they would likewise complain. I've already made my opinions known, so I won't reiterate them here.

 

However, just as important, welcome to the board! I've only been a member a couple of months myself and there's one thing that's certain, if you don't dig yourself into the trenches, you can't help your side win the battle.

 

 

héhé yep . But i've the idea there is a confusion in his post between DLC and expansion. While DLC is about sales (which he pointed out right), expansion is more about telling more of the story. And this is probably why we hope for a sequel to expand the story. Or maybe, Karrade, you should see POE2 as a big, large DLC of POE1, like BG2 would have been for BG1. 5 expansions in a RPG? i've never seen this. And don't want to. 5 DLC, i saw it. Was not good though...

Edited February 26, 2016 by Abel

[Karrade]

Thanks for the welcome, this is a subject that gets me debating hotly and often :D usually I am much more easy going, been browsing for awhile but felt no need to post till now.
 

 

I agree with you about how some players will react, but I disagree about how far reaching it will be. If they put out another xpac and not a sequel, there are fans who would be similarly disappointed and they would likewise complain. I've already made my opinions known, so I won't reiterate them here.

However, just as important, welcome to the board! I've only been a member a couple of months myself and there's one thing that's certain, if you don't dig yourself into the trenches, you can't help your side win the battle.

 

 

héhé yep . But i've the idea there is a confusion in his post between DLC and expansion. While DLC is about sales (which he pointed out right), expansion is more about telling more of the story. And this is probably why we hope for a sequel to expand the story. Or maybe, Karrade, you should see POE2 as a big, large DLC of POE1, like BG2 would have been for BG1. 5 expansions in a RPG? i've never seen this. And don't want to. 5 DLC, i saw it. Was not good though...

 

In the battle of ideas, I aspire to cannon fodder status, but if my fate is to rush headlong into combat only to feed the mortars, so be it.  At least I can add my tiny voice to the volume of folks pushing for one opinion, and if there's one opinion and only one I could choose at this point, it would be to let the design team straighten out the narrative and trust them.  That's the hill where I'd die.  Of course, you don't actually die in forum battles, so I'm still going to push for a new location with a different character and paced so that the epic (whatever that is) tale can be spread out over a longer period of time and much more content.  Leave room in the story so that the xpacs for Pillars two extend the story out rather than injected into the fatty tissue in the middle, and then leave the end so that the big reveal can come in Pillars 3.

 

 

You've not said why.

You can tell me I'm wrong forever, but you've not actually said why 3 expansions would be bad, or 5 for that matter. I could list RPG's that have had 5 expansions but that's not the point we are talking about pillars of eternity and more importantly, its current DLC. Is it worth it? Is it selling? If the answer to that is yes, and its been yes twice, would a third be worth it? It really is that simple.

 

Seeing the sequel as the next DLC is sadly not the case. You've got 3 years dev time minimum for the release for it to be any good, a brand new cast, setting and will likely introduce different mechanics making it a sequel, not DLC. A sequel is a gamble, its more of a gamble the more it strays from the established formula, and make no mistakes you'll get complainers if it doesn't take chances to bring in new systems because it'll be called a copy. 

 

On a personal note I love the DLC model, I will defend it to the end of time, and my favorite games have a high amount of it, because it lets me pick and choose what I want in the game and don't want, being a modder at heart I love it. I don't feel the complusion to buy the DLC I have no desire to play, or don't value at the price its listed at, so I get the best of both worlds and devs get feedback on what's worth making as DLC.

But back to pillars, can they nail a second successful game, sure, if this is anything to go by i'd give good odds. Will you like it personally as much, maybe, it really is a maybe folks. Will you be around in three years to care? Maybe.

[Abel]

My point is not the DLC matter. Just that nowadays, DLC are way different than what were expansions back in the day. I can, too, speak about games with many DLCs (Fallout 3?). To me, it was horrible. The expansion of POE is not crafted like DLCs. I must admit it scorches me to read they are DLC. They are downloadable, indeed, but that's it. If an expansion like "Tales of the Sword Coast" was meant to be sold (obviously), there wasn't the same spirit behind it like there is behind nowadays frickin' DLC, where bits of poor gameplay are seperated in tiny overpriced DLCs, or where 10 complete 3 hours dull things are sold, even if totally out of place (i will, for a long time, spit on "Mothership Zeta", which destroyed the WTF myth of aliens, never proved in Fallout 2 (and to craft a dull FPS... Oo)). Sellling envisioned addictional content is not the same thing as "creating whatever additional content we can come up with to capitalize at most our money with minimum work". Dragon Age Origins DLC were another stain in RPG history (while at the time, i hoped for well crafted, true expansions). But the development politics behinds them were not quite the same, and many mods are actually way better than nowadays DLC (kudos moders). Once the story of POE 1 is told, time to go on with POE2.

 

Obviously, all this is my way to see things, my genuine opinion. But it does not come from nowhere. Besides, unlike things like Dragon Age 2, POE 2 is meant to be successor of BG2, as POE 1 was to BG 1, as it was stated by Josh. Unless Electronic Arts got the rights on POE, there is little chance POE 2 core elements are corrupted. I'll give you the point about the time needed to craft a POE 2. But now that the engine and such are ready, i don't think it would take 3 more years.

 

I just hope you see my point better. About hoping more about a sequel than XX more expansions that would transform POE into a " barely related side quests RPG".

 

EDIT; the second part of my post you quoted was not actually my words. I copy pasted it from another post by accident (damn keyboard bug).

Edited February 26, 2016 by Abel

[Ausir]

I'd love to see another expansion, but realistically, one has to only look at the Steam achievement stats to see that only a very small percentage of POE players even started the White March. So I'm afraid another expansion could be unfeasible financially.

[why]

For me, kind of what Abel was saying, expansions just don't do justice to the story. The way the game was set up, all the expansions are inserted into the middle. That makes it tough because the end content is skewed by the extra levels. Frankly, there will be complaining no matter what, I figure that's fine, but the main story arc had such a note of finality I don't see how they can tack stuff onto the end as an expansion and shoving more stuff in the middle isn't going to work very well. Right now, it's like a big ol' Dagwood sandwich. More xpacs might be tasty, but you can only open your mouth so far. Squeeze the sandwich too hard, and you're going to have mustard, mayonnaise, and all manner of sandwich stuffins falling out o' the sides. What I'd really like to... you know what? I'm suddenly hungry. I'll figure out a better analogy after I eat.

[Karrade]

My point is not the DLC matter. Just that nowadays, DLC are way different than what were expansions back in the day. I can, too, speak about games with many DLCs (Fallout 3?). To me, it was horrible. The expansion of POE is not crafted like DLCs. I must admit it scorches me to read they are DLC. They are downloadable, indeed, but that's it. If an expansion like "Tales of the Sword Coast" was meant to be sold (obviously), there wasn't the same spirit behind it like there is behind nowadays frickin' DLC, where bits of poor gameplay are seperated in tiny overpriced DLCs, or where 10 complete 3 hours dull things are sold, even if totally out of place (i will, for a long time, spit on "Mothership Zeta", which destroyed the WTF myth of aliens, never proved in Fallout 2 (and to craft a dull FPS... Oo)). Sellling envisioned addictional content is not the same thing as "creating whatever additional content we can come up with to capitalize at most our money with minimum work". Dragon Age Origins DLC were another stain in RPG history (while at the time, i hoped for well crafted, true expansions). But the development politics behinds them were not quite the same, and many mods are actually way better than nowadays DLC (kudos moders). Once the story of POE 1 is told, time to go on with POE2.

 

Obviously, all this is my way to see things, my genuine opinion. But it does not come from nowhere. Besides, unlike things like Dragon Age 2, POE 2 is meant to be successor of BG2, as POE 1 was to BG 1, as it was stated by Josh. Unless Electronic Arts got the rights on POE, there is little chance POE 2 core elements are corrupted. I'll give you the point about the time needed to craft a POE 2. But now that the engine and such are ready, i don't think it would take 3 more years.

 

I just hope you see my point better. About hoping more about a sequel than XX more expansions that would transform POE into a " barely related side quests RPG".

 

EDIT; the second part of my post you quoted was not actually my words. I copy pasted it from another post by accident (damn keyboard bug).

 

Yeah sorry about the quote of the quote, I cannot edit my post because of the rather awkward minimum post edit rule, and when I saw you edit yours mine was awaiting approval.

 

All good games of substance take 3 years or more, its a minimum time frame for anything decent, and I wouldn't want a game before that. If people want a sequel that's fine, but the devs need time to make a good one and they have to be willing to wait.

 

Not willing to argue semantics on the term DLC, the definition doesn't concern me all that much, it might be helpful to try as you are to establish some clearer definitions on the term expansion again but at present as you elude to its murky.

 

Creating whatever content? Well then its down to you, the player, to decide whether to buy it, nobody is holding a gun over your head saying buy this. If its bad, don't buy it, if someone has a compulsion to just buy something because it is there, they are going to have a real problem in life financially and the onus is on them to manage their own wallet. Again you are missing the point that they've made 2 decent DLC's, Expansions whatever, so there is no evidence to support the position others would be of any less quality.

 

Dragon Age Origins DLC was pretty good value for what it was, if you are referring to watchers keep for example or even better the return to ostagar which was given decent reviews and liked. Don't remember the fallout 3 dlc all that much as I never got around to it (didn't rate fallout 3 generally felt too happy not wasteland enough), fallout 3 NV DLC however was a classic and well received. If you are arguing subjective terms about what we personally like or don't like, however we'll be here all day, so let's not. 

 

Many mods are better than DLC because they have a developer base of thousands and many, many more man hours combined. If you are cherry picking the best, of course the big mod communities combined will do better, and they often become the ones the devs hire next time. - This is why, the eventually successor to the MMO genre will leverage that, and for example so many games are trying, a few indies are getting close.

 

Edited February 26, 2016 by Karrade

[juanval]

most of the people here want a new story with a new character. The watcher is too powerful to fight in PoE2 against normal bandits and normal bosses.

 

Furthermore, White March expansions make character even more powerful. I didn't play expansions because I like they continue the story, and not being placed in the middle.

 

I'd vote for a level 1 story for PoE2. A new adventure with lots of exploration areas like Baldurs Gate 1. I don't want to play with a 25 level character in the hell against the god of the gods.

Edited February 26, 2016 by juanval

[Karkarov]

If level 16 isn't high level, then how come you can defeat every single inhabitant of the Dyrwood, including dragons and legendary arch mages whom spells are named after?

 

How come even a level 12 tank can walk right into a flock of a dozen hungry lions, be jumped by all of them at once, and not have a scratch on him?

 

Let's face it, when you compare how you can actually affect the world around you, Pillars levels 12-16 are more comparable to BG2:ToB than BG1.

Dragons (lol especially in D&D) were never of one power level.  I remember one campaign where we killed dragons here and there and we were all level 10ish or so.  All of them aren't made equal though and there was one dragon in that campaign we actually fled from more than once because we knew we couldn't beat that one.  So there could be plenty of dragons far nastier out there than the Adra Dragon.  It isn't like there isn't "dragon hunters" in Eternity or anything guys, killing dragons is obviously not that insane a concept in this world.

 

As for legendary wizards with spells named after them.  Having a spell named after you doesn't mean you are a total bad ass, it just means you are really good at inventing spells that people like.  Again look at the Forgotten Realms from D&D.  There were plenty of mages in that world who were not level 20 + / gods were afraid of them bad asses that had spells named after them.

 

Also I argue that no the things you do in Eternity are not that big a deal, much more similar to BG1 than 2.  You are involved tangentially in some political intrigue, but you are not the center of it or the force driving it.  Yes your actions when you take out Thaos have a big effect on the Dyrwood itself... but are you really comparing that to the possible "...and then you became a god" ending from Throne of Bhaal?  Those two things don't really seem in the same league.  Remember Dyrwood is a backwater country, it is considered frontier, and only recently won it's Independence.  Nothing you did in Eternity "changed the course of world history".

 

All that aside, do I think level 20 will be some "middle level", no not really.  But there is certainly room to push max level to 30 without stretching anything unreasonably.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Karkarov

[Valorian]

Josh is 100% going to go to a 5 attribute system after what has happened. 

 

 

 

Six attributes is fine. Dexterity could be +2% action speed per level and +1 defl. every two levels (no defl. bonus on odd numbers, so what?).

 

I'd like Resolve and Intellect to apply on a case by case scenario, e.g. resolve increases the duration of some abilities (fighter's constant recovery) and intelligence increases the duration of some other abilities (knock down). Same with AoE.

 

Less gamey more role-playey.

[hilfazer]

J.S.: You know what Fergie, i think we should make a second expansion for Pillars.

F.U.: Don't worry Joshie, i've already taken care of that.

J.S.: What? What do you mean?

F.U.: Remember when i told you to split White March into two parts?

J.S.: Yes, that was rather strange decision but you're the boss.

F.U.: Hehe, yeah. And now you will understand why i'm the boss here. Those players now think they already got 2 expansions from us!

J.S.: O_O, impossible!

F.U.: But it's true. Check the forums. People are already speculating about third expansion.

J.S.: Hmm, i can't find anything.

F.U.: OUR forums, not Something Awful.

J.S.: Ahhh, now i can see this. It's incredible!

F.U.: The power of marketing.

J.S.: But we still have energy and all those cool ideas ...

F.U.: Save them for PoE2. Sequel is supposed to match BG2, we'll have to do our best. Now, take your rest Joshie, you've done well.

Edited February 28, 2016 by hilfazer