Jump to content

Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens


Blarghagh

Recommended Posts

I disagree, these scenarios all emphasise how the character should outgrow her, as both tutor, bonded partner and authority figure. When she shows her blind spots, her speciesism for instance and weakness in failing to make use of the Droids, her lack of empathy that reveals various weaknesses in her while she chides you, her inability to snoop on Bao Dur's mind because of the tighter bond that you two bare, and of course her jealous, romantic obsession with the Exile that leaves her betrayed by her own feelings. These are all points where the Exile should be choosing his own path, learning from her, but not in the manner in which she is suggesting.

 

The game does not state this at any point but the sad tale of her life and the indignities she has suffered should point this out to anyone who is paying attention. The Exile should be pursuing his own path, taking heed of all that she says, and all that she does not say. It is demonstrated in almost every cutscene in which you are not present that you should not trust this woman, nor believe her, even graphically with her hood always raised she remains hidden and obscured, just as she means to. Only a fool would follow her advice, and only a fool would fail to take what one can from her.

 

For me she is not an annoying hag but a beautiful and perilous femme fatale, and a refreshing change from the usual squeeing girl child we are flooded with on a day to day basis.

 

Edit: I'm really in fine arguing fettle today.

Edited by Nonek
  • Like 1

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Kreia is a good character because she's an annoying hag who is zealous as hell. Far better than a standard Jedi Master or Sith Lord mentor.

 

Granted the gray path could have used more work(and some mechanical bonuses) and the notion that binary Light/Dark is harming the Force is an interesting counterpoint to Kreia wanting to destroy the Force. But if we're talking about flaws with KOTOR(2) or SW in general we're gonna be here a long time.

"Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic

"you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus

"Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander

"Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador

"You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort

"thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex

"Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock

"Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco

"we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii

"I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing

"feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth

"Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi

"Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor

"I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine

"I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thing bugged me subconsciously during the movie, and the kid who wrote the review was spot on.

Yep. The facepalm is strong with Rey in this regard, and I had exactly the same feeling.

 

However: Pompey was awarded his first triumph at 26, and Alexander had conquered most of the known world before he kicked the bucket at 33. While the bad guys in TFA do look and sound like a bunch of punks trying way too hard, being over 50 isn't necessarily a requirement to hold senior military rank and do it competently.

 

Also, does Harrison Ford have arthritis or something? Bad posture and moves... awkwardly.

  • Like 1

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Also, does Harrison Ford have arthritis or something? Bad posture and moves... awkwardly.

 

Didn't he break his leg while/just before filming?  I recall something about a garage door landing on it.  He's probably walking around in a cast (seriously, they often have actors doing that especially in action films where the actor often gets hurt like Jackie Chan).

"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The Vatican should know 

6ADLV4r.gif

  • Like 3

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Max Landis compared Rey to John Cena because she constantly succeeds against all odds and its boring. I like this comparison (though... rule of cool so I didn't mind her constant success because it always resulted in fun scenes)

Edited by Oerwinde
The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity.

Devastatorsig.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RLM has a Half in the Bag episode about TFA:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvsiJppCdmk

 

I guess Mike got a bit too hyped about this totally not being like the prequels. Pretty much like I was when I left the theatre and before things settled in (and before a second watch, anyway). Still, it's quite fun to watch. ;)

No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saw it again. You know, I kinda get people who think Rey terrible character but right now I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. I'm pretty sure she's got some kind of secret background or memory tampering to justify it:

 

The fact that Kylo Ren taunts her about her loneliness and how she imagines a green island in a vast ocean (guess who we find in just such a place), and how Luke's lightsaber calls to her and triggers what could be visions or could be memories. The fact that they recorded Ewan McGregor calling her name... and that everyone seems to realize she's important despite her supposedly being a nobody. Kylo Ren doesn't just say she's strong in the Force, he specifically says that she's much stronger in the Force than she knows. The fact we have no idea who dumped her on Jakku and why, and that she uses a Jedi mind-trick despite nobody telling her that's even possible - how did she even know how to do that?

 

She's got to have some serious built-in connection to this stuff. So thus far I'm perfectly willing to buy it for now - provided they explain it sufficiently in the upcoming sequels. If they don't, then she'll be a terrible character who can do everything right despite having no reason to. Right now I'm just not feeling that way.

 

But maybe that's because I have a tiny crush on Daisy Ridley. :wub:

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But maybe that's because I have a tiny crush on Daisy Ridley. :wub:

 

Well, that's okay. I watched the entire run of Andromeda even though the show went from campy good fun to a ridiculous space-borne spinoff of Hercules for no other reason than to ogle Lexa Doig in a leather costume every week.

 

The flashback we got when she touched the conveniently placed original lightsaber of Anakin showed her being brought to Jakku while she was pretty young. Not that there isn't sufficient precedence for Jedi training to begin very early that would not really account for her lightsaber prowess (and no, a quarterstaff is not the same proficiency as a blade, no matter how much streamlining D&D got in recent years :p).

  • Like 1

No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fact that Kylo Ren taunts her about her loneliness and how she imagines a green island in a vast ocean (guess who we find in just such a place), and how Luke's lightsaber calls to her and triggers what could be visions or could be memories. The fact that they recorded Ewan McGregor calling her name... and that everyone seems to realize she's important despite her supposedly being a nobody. Kylo Ren doesn't just say she's strong in the Force, he specifically says that she's much stronger in the Force than she knows. The fact we have no idea who dumped her on Jakku and why, and that she uses a Jedi mind-trick despite nobody telling her that's even possible - how did she even know how to do that?

 

She's got to have some serious built-in connection to this stuff. So thus far I'm perfectly willing to buy it for now - provided they explain it sufficiently in the upcoming sequels. If they don't, then she'll be a terrible character who can do everything right despite having no reason to. Right now I'm just not feeling that way.

 

I thought this was obvious.

  • Like 1

"Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having a secret past doesn't preclude her from being interesting in the 2 hours we've already seen. But she isn't really. There's no characterization whatsoever, all she does is move from one set piece to another remaining essentially unchanged, without any background - and without anyone actually asking her anything of importance.

 

And break all the established rules of the SW universe, by being able to use the force and lightsaber untrained. I'm sure they'll find a semi-plausible explanation in the next film, but its a far cry from Luke in the first film. He may be a walking peasant-to-hero archetype but at least its all credible and well executed in the context of the film. 

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And break all the established rules of the SW universe, by being able to use the force and lightsaber untrained. I'm sure they'll find a semi-plausible explanation in the next film, but its a far cry from Luke in the first film. He may be a walking peasant-to-hero archetype but at least its all credible and well executed in the context of the film. 

 

In terms of breaking established rules the one thing that bothered me most was Han's hyperspace jump behind the Starkiller base shields. Good grief why did they drop a ground team on Endor with a stolen shuttle in Return of the Jedi if they could have just jumped right on top of the shield generator, or just jumped straight to the entrance of the second Death Star's superstructure?

No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And break all the established rules of the SW universe, by being able to use the force and lightsaber untrained. I'm sure they'll find a semi-plausible explanation in the next film, but its a far cry from Luke in the first film. He may be a walking peasant-to-hero archetype but at least its all credible and well executed in the context of the film. 

 

"In the context of the film" being key here. In 1977 Lucas wasn't sure the movie wouldn't be a total flop precluding any sequels so he needed to make it a self-contained story. Abrams had the benefit of knowing he'd blow the box office to kingdom come no matter how badly he did so sequels are *guaranteed*, giving him more leeway to leave stuff unexplained (and arguably nonsensical in the context of the film). Character development arcs are going to be paced differently simply because of that. Better, worse? Hard to say until we have a complete picture.

 

I already agreed with you regarding Rey, but I think it's possible they can resolve these issues in retrospect, as TN said. The possible execution is a whole 'nother matter...

Edited by 213374U

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

And break all the established rules of the SW universe, by being able to use the force and lightsaber untrained. I'm sure they'll find a semi-plausible explanation in the next film, but its a far cry from Luke in the first film. He may be a walking peasant-to-hero archetype but at least its all credible and well executed in the context of the film. 
 
In terms of breaking established rules the one thing that bothered me most was Han's hyperspace jump behind the Starkiller base shields. Good grief why did they drop a ground team on Endor with a stolen shuttle in Return of the Jedi if they could have just jumped right on top of the shield generator, or just jumped straight to the entrance of the second Death Star's superstructure?

 

 

The film is full of plot holes and nonsense like that. Most movies are, but Abrams really doesn't care about that sort of thing. All he wants is for people to walk away with the impression that they've seen something great and the constant action is there to divert their attention from the many inconsistencies. Make the death star bigger, make an in joke about it being the same thing only ten times as large and presto - you're excused for making the third film about blowing up a death star :D 

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I want Rey's character to be explained with some "oh she has just forgotten". I would rather they just do better in the sequel given that it's the perfect opportunity because the next arc should be about training where all the character strengths and flaws come out.

 

I don't think the character is "terrible" in the context of a movie where everything is done with broad strokes. But it's definitely a noticeable flaw in the writing.

 

I also don't want this to end up like Lost. I hope JJ knows what all the flashbacks and visions mean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They have one big benefit when they make their characters and plot devices and such things. As there is no quite lot of people that make and produce different media around the film, which give them ability explain everything in the movies without needing to explain them in the movies themselves. So they can use as much of rule of cool they want and then use other media to explain why those things we okey in Star Wars universe and then see how millions and millions of their fans explain things to people through social media. So they don't need and they don't rely on movies alone to explain things that happen in Star Wars universe, but instead they will force people to consume Star Wars in multitude of media if they want to get full picture of things and fans rejoice lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually watched the Phantom Menace yesterday to freshen up my impression - and while it is definitely worse overall than Force Awakens, it still has more SW charm than what Abrams has done. And a better story (which doesn't mean the story is actually good). Its just that PM's flaws are incredibly grating and ruin the experience while FA's are better covered up. And, well, based on an already functional formula - whereas PM does something new.

 

*shrug*

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They have one big benefit when they make their characters and plot devices and such things. As there is no quite lot of people that make and produce different media around the film, which give them ability explain everything in the movies without needing to explain them in the movies themselves. So they can use as much of rule of cool they want and then use other media to explain why those things we okey in Star Wars universe and then see how millions and millions of their fans explain things to people through social media. So they don't need and they don't rely on movies alone to explain things that happen in Star Wars universe, but instead they will force people to consume Star Wars in multitude of media if they want to get full picture of things and fans rejoice lot.

 

There's a lot of that today and I think that's a garbage approach to be honest. A film should be able to stand on its own two legs through and through. 

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...