Please build the companions better!

[thekdawg21]

I love the game, but not a single companion stacks up to even Minsc, who just had funny VO and a story as far as "I save girl"

 

[macadam]

Their builds are bad insofar as their stats are all over the place, but the companions themselves are well done imo, given the small budget. While there is no "funny" character as such, none of them is over the top (as in, having cliche revenge fantasies). Minsc was a bit much tbh.

 

Plus, you could always use custom adventurers.

[AndreaColombo]

Honestly I found all companions in PoE to be vastly better than any companion in the BG saga.

 

Of course it is mostly a matter of personal preference but Bg companions suffered a lot from being tied to D&D's overly simplistic alignment system. As a result, they were all more or less sullen, one dimensional, and stereotyped.

 

Minsc had a bit of originality because of Boo but other than that he wasn't anything more than the good giant trope.

 

PoE companions may not be perfect, but they are a lot more relatable and less clichéd, imho.

[Crucis]

I love the game, but not a single companion stacks up to even Minsc, who just had funny VO and a story as far as "I save girl"

 

Sorry, but I, for one, am glad that there are no moron companions in the game like Minsc.  I never enjoyed him in BG1/2 in the least.  I don't find "stupid" to be funny, just stupid.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Crucis

[Gromnir]

I love the game, but not a single companion stacks up to even Minsc, who just had funny VO and a story as far as "I save girl"

Lisa: What am I doing wrong, Little Vicki?

Vicki: Well, you're falling a lot. Maybe you should work on that.

Lisa: Yeah, well, no offense, but maybe I need a little more instruction that just "tappa-tappa-tappa".

Vicki: Why, back when I was your age, I had 43 movies under my belt, and I had to do it without tappa-tappa-tappa. I would've killed for tappa-tappa-tappa.

 

perhaps the developers could benefit with a bit more feedback than "tappa-tappa-tappa."

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Fardragon]

The reason so many BG1 companions are raving mad is because they only had a very small amount of dialogue and VO each, so the had to be able to make a quick impression. PoE companions had a significantly larger proportion of development resources dedicated to them, so are much more realistic and rounded.

 

This set the tone for the games. The BG series has a lot of humour and silliness (Xvart rock bands?). It was quite close to the tone of my actual PnP games in that respect. PoE has a much more serious tone. Neither of these is a bad thing, but it's quite important to maintain a consistent tone.

 

The place where BG companions do win out is their unique abilities that aren't available to players, some of which where actually useful and fun. This made up for thier non-min-maxed attributes. There is a bit of this in PoE, but the fox is functionally indistinguishable from any other animal companion, shapeshifting is redundant at high level, and the bird-lady's power is blink-or-you-miss-it trivial.

 

The thing PoE does right is you can easily ditch any companions you don't like and replace them with your own. The thing with NWN2 OC wasn't so much that the companions where awful (although they where), it was that you couldn't ditch them.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Fardragon

[Nakia]

The BG I companions never impressed me and my preference in BG II were the evil or neutral alligned companions.   I think the companions in PoE are well done and with the respec option are quite playable as is.  I would like more companion interaction but this is the first game in the series and they are in my opinion already better than the BG I companions.  I also like the ability to create my own party members as in IWD games.

[Crucis]

The reason so many BG1 companions are raving mad is because they only had a very small amount of dialogue and VO each, so the had to be able to make a quick impression. PoE companions had a significantly larger proportion of development resources dedicated to them, so are much more realistic and rounded.

 

This set the tone for the games. The BG series has a lot of humour and silliness (Xvart rock bands?). It was quite close to the tone of my actual PnP games in that respect. PoE has a much more serious tone. Neither of these is a bad thing, but it's quite important to maintain a consistent tone.

 

The place where BG companions do win out is their unique abilities that aren't available to players, some of which where actually useful and fun. This made up for thier non-min-maxed attributes. There is a bit of this in PoE, but the fox is functionally indistinguishable from any other animal companion, shapeshifting is redundant at high level, and the bird-lady's power is blink-or-you-miss-it trivial.

 

The thing PoE does right is you can easily ditch any companions you don't like and replace them with your own. The thing with NWN2 OC wasn't so much that the companions where awful (although they where), it was that you couldn't ditch them.

 

I see this as a negative, not a positive.  I like NPC's to be playing from the same rulebook as my characters, and NOT get special abilities.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Crucis

[Fardragon]

 

The reason so many BG1 companions are raving mad is because they only had a very small amount of dialogue and VO each, so the had to be able to make a quick impression. PoE companions had a significantly larger proportion of development resources dedicated to them, so are much more realistic and rounded.

 

This set the tone for the games. The BG series has a lot of humour and silliness (Xvart rock bands?). It was quite close to the tone of my actual PnP games in that respect. PoE has a much more serious tone. Neither of these is a bad thing, but it's quite important to maintain a consistent tone.

 

The place where BG companions do win out is their unique abilities that aren't available to players, some of which where actually useful and fun. This made up for thier non-min-maxed attributes. There is a bit of this in PoE, but the fox is functionally indistinguishable from any other animal companion, shapeshifting is redundant at high level, and the bird-lady's power is blink-or-you-miss-it trivial.

 

The thing PoE does right is you can easily ditch any companions you don't like and replace them with your own. The thing with NWN2 OC wasn't so much that the companions where awful (although they where), it was that you couldn't ditch them.

 

I see this as a negative, not a positive.  I was NPC's to be playing from the same rulebook as my characters, and NOT get special abilities.

 

Even when they are, they aren't.

 

PCs have the option to min-max. NPCs don't have that choice.

 

 

It's also worth noting that in both BG and PoE the PC gains unique abilities unavailable to NPCs. "playing from the same rulebook" means NPCs should also be able to gain unique abilities.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Fardragon

[Luckmann]

I love the game, but not a single companion stacks up to even Minsc, who just had funny VO and a story as far as "I save girl"

"To even Minsc" is a bit of a sad of a comparison, considering that he's easily the most shallow and annoying character in BG.

[MalVeauX]

I love the game, but not a single companion stacks up to even Minsc, who just had funny VO and a story as far as "I save girl"

 

Heya,

 

So, some will love the idea of Minsc, others are annoyed by him. I would not call this making the companions "better." A wide variety of companions for the sake of making a party with characters' personalities that you enjoy is one thing, and that doesn't mean they will be useful in the game for other purposes. Imagine if Durance was the new Minsc, over the top with "butt kicking for goodness" but he actually was horrible at everything and basically missed and died a lot.

 

Personally I really enjoyed Minsc. I liked the comic relief. I wouldn't want another Minsc though, as it would take away from Minsc.

 

I think some new interesting characters would definitely be fun. A little more chatter. Maybe some more variable personalities.

 

What would really be cool, would be that when you get a hireling or NPC you make, that there were personality templates that you could select and you could essentially make these interactions for you. Egotistical idiot? Passionate do-gooder? Over-the-top-with-a-mighty-pet? Bored with life? Will do anything for money? Think about how fun those templates would be, especially if community content were possible. Then when you make a character or hire one, you could add personalities, along with the rest of the stuff. Pre-scripted interactions that are simple but fun would be all it takes.

 

Very best,

[Fardragon]

Divinity: Original Sin does something like that. It is really fun to have two characters you created argue with each other.

[MalVeauX]

Divinity: Original Sin does something like that. It is really fun to have two characters you created argue with each other.

 

I've yet to try that one, there goes more money!

 

 

Very best,

[Luckmann]

I'm going to second the recommendation for D:OS. It's very different from PoE, I think that it's a bit more hodge-podge, and the humour is sometimes waaaay off, and the writing ranges from OK to awful, but mechanically and gameplay-wise, it's a great game, and great fun, and it sports a solid co-op (it's not nearly as much fun to do the quite bare-bones talk-between-your-own-two-main-characters thing alone).

 

There's an Enhanced Edition coming out within a few months, although it's been adapted for consoles, so it could go both ways. Provided you've got a good enough computer for it (the Enhanced Edition is going to be DirectX 11 only, for some reason) I'd wait to see how that turns out before committing.

[Merany]

Honestly I found all companions in PoE to be vastly better than any companion in the BG saga.

 

Hmmm, I don't know about that

Better than most BG1's? Probably but BG1 companions are pretty lackluster if you don't play with NPC Project (which is why this mod is so popular).

Better than BG2's Minsc / Jan / Imoen / All evil NPC? I would strongly disagree!

 

They certainly have a lot more to say but that doesn't make them more interesting to me...

(Prime example of that for me would be Sagani who talks a lot but is boring as ****)

 

Anyway, I second the OP!

[AndreaColombo]

Jan Jansen was indeed funny and overall more original than most other characters in BG2.

 

Jaheira I personally find quite obnoxious.

 

But as I said, much comes down to personal preference

[Eisenheinrich]

Please STFU! Minsc? Are you kidding me? He was ****e, as was Jaheira as was whiny Imoen as was that do-gooder An(noy)omen! Most of those BG II-chars were stereotypes so bland, I can't even imagine how anybody could hold them in such a high esteem. Maybe you liked them, because you were 12 when you played that game and didn't had a clue about good writing. 

Durance > Minsc

Now get the F out here!

Eisenheinrich

EDIT: The whole art-style and graphics are **** in DO:S, couldn't even bear those ridiculous charakter-models with their silly "High-Fantasy-Anime-Armour" and oversized weapons. WoW-style crap. 

[Fardragon]

Yeah! Don't you guys realise that computer games are a deadly serious affair that must be treated with the utmost gravitas?! Any trace of silliness must be stamped out immediately!

[Gromnir]

the bg1 companions, with 1 exception, offered little save for a catchphrase and the contents of their character record sheet.  perhaps there were a minor quest included, or not.  if there were a quest, as with kivan, it were possible to finish the quest without ever realizing.  the dour ranger never commented after confronting or even killing tazok in the bandit camp.

 

special abilities were indeed more common in bg1, but again, that was a character record sheet kinda thing.  weren't adding to character o' the character to have constitution high enough to generate regeneration, eh?  a few o' the bg1 companion abilities caused more than a little anger btw.  folks in the interplay boards were not happy that coran were a better fighter/thief than they could build themselves.  similarly, edwin were a superior wizard to pc wizards for no reason other than his special ability. etc.

 

there were not much to like about the bg1 companions.  that ain't actual the criticism you might infer.  what we mean is that the bg1 companions offered little to no story development after we acquired them, and d&d 2nd edition allowed very few statistical character development options after level 1.  you liked the characters, if you like'd 'em, based on little effort from the biowarians. character record contents and catchphrase(s)? 

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/80089-combat-companions-vs-adventurers/?p=1700741

 

is no new topics.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Lord_Mord]

 

Please STFU! Minsc? Are you kidding me? He was ****e, as was Jaheira as was whiny Imoen as was that do-gooder An(noy)omen! Most of those BG II-chars were stereotypes so bland, I can't even imagine how anybody could hold them in such a high esteem. Maybe you liked them, because you were 12 when you played that game and didn't had a clue about good writing. 

 

Durance > Minsc

 

Now get the F out here!

 

Eisenheinrich

 

EDIT: The whole art-style and graphics are **** in DO:S, couldn't even bear those ridiculous charakter-models with their silly "High-Fantasy-Anime-Armour" and oversized weapons. WoW-style crap.

 

I don't like your tone, but you are right.

 

 

you liked the characters, if you like'd 'em, based on little effort from the biowarians. character record contents and catchphrase(s)?

 

I still can repeat almost every audio of Xan, Xzar, Minsk, Jan, that evil dwarf and that mad gnome from BG1 and Imoen of course, but I rather would forget hers. Many people hated the german translation (NPCs had strange dialects. The polititian guys that surround Sarevok sounded like Austrians), but I liked it, it made them even more catchy. I often repeat their sentences when talking to people . These are things, that you can never get out of your head until you die. Xan is still my favourite, but after playing him as a mod, I understood that other people interpreted his character in a totally different way. There is not much of a character there, but lots of room for interpretation. Maybe that is a reason for many people to think those were great characters. And they were. But not the same for everyone.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Lord_Mord

[tinysalamander]

EDIT: The whole art-style and graphics are **** in DO:S, couldn't even bear those ridiculous charakter-models with their silly "High-Fantasy-Anime-Armour" and oversized weapons. WoW-style crap. 

 

Stop having fun, people

[Luckmann]

To be honest though, while I'm not a fan of the sillyness of D:OS (constant breaking of the themes, lack of versimilitude, crude real-life humour, etc), I didn't think that the armours and weapons were that bad at all, and certainly not WoW-like caricatures (which I detest).

[Eisenheinrich]

To be honest though, while I'm not a fan of the sillyness of D:OS (constant breaking of the themes, lack of versimilitude, crude real-life humour, etc), I didn't think that the armours and weapons were that bad at all, and certainly not WoW-like caricatures (which I detest).

 

Fair enough. Guess I'm more into the sombre, medieval touch of armarent like Neverwinter Nights and that kind of games introduced. While bland in graphics and diversity of enviroment, the atmosphere in NWN was spot on for me. I can't understand how anyone would prefer that Disney-abomination the city of Neverwinter has become in the Neverwinter MMO to the gloomy appearance in the original NWN-Game. 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2015 by Eisenheinrich

[Fardragon]

I always thought NWN was a bit dayglo in terms of colour scheme. But what would I know, my favourite movie is Guardians of the Galaxy?!

[darqleo]

The reason so many BG1 companions are raving mad is because they only had a very small amount of dialogue and VO each, so the had to be able to make a quick impression. PoE companions had a significantly larger proportion of development resources dedicated to them, so are much more realistic and rounded.

 

This set the tone for the games. The BG series has a lot of humour and silliness (Xvart rock bands?). It was quite close to the tone of my actual PnP games in that respect. PoE has a much more serious tone. Neither of these is a bad thing, but it's quite important to maintain a consistent tone.

 

The place where BG companions do win out is their unique abilities that aren't available to players, some of which where actually useful and fun. This made up for thier non-min-maxed attributes. There is a bit of this in PoE, but the fox is functionally indistinguishable from any other animal companion, shapeshifting is redundant at high level, and the bird-lady's power is blink-or-you-miss-it trivial.

 

The thing PoE does right is you can easily ditch any companions you don't like and replace them with your own. The thing with NWN2 OC wasn't so much that the companions where awful (although they where), it was that you couldn't ditch them.

 

Great analysis. I remember the BG1 companions more for their funny/interesting soundbites than their deep and layered character story/arc. BG2 was more of the latter though.  PoE companions are more in-line with BG2, especially Grieving Mother, Eder and Durance... but I enjoyed Kana, Sangani and Pallegina as well.  What really makes PoE better though are the inter-companion dialogs. It seemed to escalate more in the latter part of the game for me, but the developers need to do more of that, maybe even have conflicts come up where the player character has to be the deciding factor. Amp up the party dynamics, interactions with the storyline/quests. Kind of like the very beginning with your temporary fighter and thief companions, going through the very first ruins. You had to make decisions where the fighter could potential leave the party or the thief would be at half-power.