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Disney lays off workers, makes them train their foregin replacements

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//edit: I am always under the assumption that the employee see honest work as the best pay in itself. The wage is just a matter of negotiation of self-interest between the interested parties.

Go home Mehugger, youre drunk. :p

 

 

I am an eternal positivist. It's my doom :(


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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I bet all those pinko-commie leftist garbage people here will come to complain soon. happy0203.gif

Reporting for duty! salute.gif

 

 

Disney is a publicly traded company, their only loyalty is to the bottom line. If you want better conditions and protection for US citizen jobs look to legislation, not Disney doing the 'right thing'.

Yeah, one shouldn't expect corporations to do the right thing, because... reasons. Regardless, I wouldn't hold my breath for legislation to fix this mess, because legislation is literally bought and paid for by the corporations it benefits.

 

So I can't expect corporations not to **** me over, and I can't expect the Man not to **** me over. Hmm, that's nice. But not to worry, I'm sure that putting a piece of paper in a plastic box next year will totally change things this time.

 

 

 

*thinks of puppies and sunshines*

Putting brass in that steel container will..

 

 

(Not really, but that one liner feels natural at this moment)

Edited by Malcador

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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I think the outsourcing works well enough, for companies, for certain things (eg texture farms in gaming) and in certain situations (mostly natural monopolies or those with a high cost/ high inertia towards moving provider) but is generally a false economy. It's one of those things, if I go into a retail store and am served by an Indian or Filipino or Chinese I couldn't care less- but if I phone someone or someone phones me and I get "Hi I'm Sanjiv Philip, I will be reading a script to you today, be unable to respond to any questions outside my flow chart and not be able to fix your problem as a result" I'm immediately expecting crap service designed solely to save the company money and my problem not to be fixed. Life is too short to spend four hours talking to someone whose job is basically not to provide service but to be as cheap as possible instead.

 

Not "Philip's" fault of course, they're just doing their job with very little leeway and very little actual cultural understanding and training. But every time I speak to his equivalent I end up annoyed frustrated and basically with a asterisk you [companyname] attitude, hardly constructive for them. Despite the stereotype it has also happened with a British based call centre, though at least the person I talked to then admitted straight away that they wouldn't be able to fix the problem and needed a supervisor; shame that the supervisors were on duty 9-5 UK time- ie 9pm to 5am our time, with the hours the business I was working at being... 6am to 8pm.

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The humble migrant interviewee is told by the Disney executive that she has good news and bad news for him, so of course he asks:

 

"What is the good news kind Madam?"

 

"You've succeeded and won a job at Disney."

 

Filled with elation the young man smiles, and then frowns. "If I may ask Madam, what is the bad news?"

 

"It's Disneyland Paris."

 

"****!"

 

Edit: Can you imagine a Disneyland opening in England though, the poor customer service, the painfully rendered smiles on wan English cheeks, the awkward attempts to be jolly, Micky sneaking off for a pint and a cigarette every half an hour, Sleeping Beauty nine months due and swearing like a docker. I think we'd be worse to be honest.

Edited by Nonek
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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Well, after this I can say I will never go to Disney World again! Of course that was pretty much true before I read this but still....


"I care nothing for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it"

Abraham Lincoln

 

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These decisions to replace local tech workers with cheap foreign labor tend to be reversed a couple years later when the "talent" turns out to lack the advertised skills and project managers start getting fired for missed deadlines.

 

It used to happen a lot in the early 2000's, nothing new here.

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lay off workers for cheap foreign replacements? add robots is better, but it's not cyberpunk enough to be genuine interesting to us.  

 

DisneSoft becomes involved in the privatization o' prison and corrections and manages to get groovy new legislation passed.  criminals can sell their brain space or bodies to get reduced sentences. DisneSoft could then use networked prisoners' sleeping brains to do complex computer processing tasks, or could use the functional lobotomized (albeit temporary)  prisoners to do all kinda monotonous tasks for no pay save reduction o' sentences. program a serial rapist to do shaddysands job?  have the rapist work 20 hours a day with no pay for 2 years to be getting sentence reduced from 8 years.  even better, complex tech skills forced into the criminal brain would remain after completion o' sentence, and the criminal, once released, would have much better chance o' gaining employment... if not made irrelevant by other DisneSoft convict drones.

 

wake us up when this story brakes.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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I have to say this is a good example of the principles of Capitalism going too far 

 

 

For better or worse, it's capitalism working as intended. The much lauded invisible hand working its magic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have to say this is a good example of the principles of Capitalism going too far 

 

 

No, as JadedWolf has accurately pointed it out, this is capitalism doing what capitalism does.

 

Which is, incidentally, why libertarian "let the free market run its course, it will work out in the end, honest" views fill me with utter dread.

 

 

That's the thing Capitalism doesn't have to be like that, the doctrine of Capitalism doesn't say "  profit at all costs "

 

There is an expected balancing act where you consider things like basic human rights. I live in a  country where we see this all the time, Capitalism works...it can really uplift people if they are prepared to work. But this type of thoughtlessness and greed needs to be condemned 


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I bet all those pinko-commie leftist garbage people here will come to complain soon. happy0203.gif

Reporting for duty! salute.gif

 

 

Disney is a publicly traded company, their only loyalty is to the bottom line. If you want better conditions and protection for US citizen jobs look to legislation, not Disney doing the 'right thing'.

Yeah, one shouldn't expect corporations to do the right thing, because... reasons. Regardless, I wouldn't hold my breath for legislation to fix this mess, because legislation is literally bought and paid for by the corporations it benefits.

 

So I can't expect corporations not to **** me over, and I can't expect the Man not to **** me over. Hmm, that's nice. But not to worry, I'm sure that putting a piece of paper in a plastic box next year will totally change things this time.

 

 

 

*thinks of puppies and sunshines*

Putting brass in that steel container will..

 

 

(Not really, but that one liner feels natural at this moment)

 

 

Damn son, you got that from a Clint Eastwood flick?


- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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I have to say this is a good example of the principles of Capitalism going too far 

 

 

No, as JadedWolf has accurately pointed it out, this is capitalism doing what capitalism does.

 

Which is, incidentally, why libertarian "let the free market run its course, it will work out in the end, honest" views fill me with utter dread.

 

 

That's the thing Capitalism doesn't have to be like that, the doctrine of Capitalism doesn't say "  profit at all costs "

 

 

But it does tend to foster a culture where personal worth is closely tied to material worth, which leads to the rise of "temporary profit at all costs" thinking at the top.

Edited by aluminiumtrioxid

"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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This is why you, at minimum, need a flexible system that's also secure for the worker and employeer.. a flexicurity! Administered and legislated by the local governments. So laying off people when it's time to downsize doesn't destroy the local community.

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Fortune favors the bald.

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That's the thing Capitalism doesn't have to be like that, the doctrine of Capitalism doesn't say "  profit at all costs "

It doesn't? Then what does the doctrine of capitalism say?

 

There is an expected balancing act where you consider things like basic human rights. I live in a  country where we see this all the time, Capitalism works...it can really uplift people if they are prepared to work. But this type of thoughtlessness and greed needs to be condemned

 

It can also create large swaths of people enslaved by various debts who are required to spend most of their earnings paying off those debts. This is compounded in low-income areas, where payday loans keep people in a cycle of perpetual debt. A few people becoming millionaires because of a lucky investment doesn't negate that.

  • Like 2

"Take your child murderin' god and shove his him up his own ass."-Volorun

 

"...the vote of a black redhead disabled homosexual transsexual Jew should probably be worth the same as at least a hundred white heterosexual Christians."-Rostere

 

"i can think of many women i would gladly sleep with, but not a single one that i would want as a girlfriend/wife... neither real nor fictional."-teknoman2

 

"I'm all for killing dogs in film." - algroth

 

"Iselmyr is the one who did GOMAD... Aloth is lactose intolerant" -ShadySands

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That's the thing Capitalism doesn't have to be like that, the doctrine of Capitalism doesn't say "  profit at all costs "

It doesn't? Then what does the doctrine of capitalism say?

 

AFAIK unless there's some newfangled definition, Capitalism only states that means of production, trade and industry aren't controlled (or aren't majority controlled) by the State, that generally private ownership and accumulation of capital are expected.  There is wage labor, competitive markets and negotiation of prices. There's actually nothing in that that inherently says anything about profit (or for that matter, treating people ethically).

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That's the thing Capitalism doesn't have to be like that, the doctrine of Capitalism doesn't say "  profit at all costs "

 

It doesn't? Then what does the doctrine of capitalism say?

AFAIK unless there's some newfangled definition, Capitalism only states that means of production, trade and industry aren't controlled (or aren't majority controlled) by the State, that generally private ownership and accumulation of capital are expected.  There is wage labor, competitive markets and negotiation of prices. There's actually nothing in that that inherently says anything about profit (or for that matter, treating people ethically).

Well he did say "doctrine of capitalism" so I assumed he was talking about something different than the definition. Granted I have a hard time understanding what Bruce is on about most of the time.


"Take your child murderin' god and shove his him up his own ass."-Volorun

 

"...the vote of a black redhead disabled homosexual transsexual Jew should probably be worth the same as at least a hundred white heterosexual Christians."-Rostere

 

"i can think of many women i would gladly sleep with, but not a single one that i would want as a girlfriend/wife... neither real nor fictional."-teknoman2

 

"I'm all for killing dogs in film." - algroth

 

"Iselmyr is the one who did GOMAD... Aloth is lactose intolerant" -ShadySands

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Yeah I read "doctrine" as "definition" so I may have been ass-u-me-ing us all.

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That's the thing Capitalism doesn't have to be like that, the doctrine of Capitalism doesn't say "  profit at all costs "


It doesn't? Then what does the doctrine of capitalism say?
 

There is an expected balancing act where you consider things like basic human rights. I live in a  country where we see this all the time, Capitalism works...it can really uplift people if they are prepared to work. But this type of thoughtlessness and greed needs to be condemned


It can also create large swaths of people enslaved by various debts who are required to spend most of their earnings paying off those debts. This is compounded in low-income areas, where payday loans keep people in a cycle of perpetual debt. A few people becoming millionaires because of a lucky investment doesn't negate that.

 

 

 

That's the thing Capitalism doesn't have to be like that, the doctrine of Capitalism doesn't say "  profit at all costs "


It doesn't? Then what does the doctrine of capitalism say?

 


AFAIK unless there's some newfangled definition, Capitalism only states that means of production, trade and industry aren't controlled (or aren't majority controlled) by the State, that generally private ownership and accumulation of capital are expected.  There is wage labor, competitive markets and negotiation of prices. There's actually nothing in that that inherently says anything about profit (or for that matter, treating people ethically).

 

 

Well there are various definitions but the most accurate one I use is similar to yours but adds something like "  and profit made is reinvested into the company to provide for growth"  so yes there is nothing in Capitalism to justify the appalling behavior at Disney

 

You see every company also has a code of conduct or manifesto that would say something like "   and we believe in a healthy, happy and fair work environment for our staff "  so quite simply Disney should have balanced this view with the impact of replacing staff like they did. And they should have come to the decision thats its immoral and a contradiction to what Disney stands for and or should stand  for 


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Yeah I read "doctrine" as "definition" so I may have been ass-u-me-ing us all.

 

 

 

 

 

That's the thing Capitalism doesn't have to be like that, the doctrine of Capitalism doesn't say "  profit at all costs "

It doesn't? Then what does the doctrine of capitalism say?

AFAIK unless there's some newfangled definition, Capitalism only states that means of production, trade and industry aren't controlled (or aren't majority controlled) by the State, that generally private ownership and accumulation of capital are expected.  There is wage labor, competitive markets and negotiation of prices. There's actually nothing in that that inherently says anything about profit (or for that matter, treating people ethically).

Well he did say "doctrine of capitalism" so I assumed he was talking about something different than the definition. Granted I have a hard time understanding what Bruce is on about most of the time.

 

 

Yes I meant definition :)


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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That's the thing Capitalism doesn't have to be like that, the doctrine of Capitalism doesn't say "  profit at all costs "

It doesn't? Then what does the doctrine of capitalism say?

 

"Pursue happiness in whatever way you wish, as long as your interaction with others (be it cooperation, trade, etc.) happens on a voluntary basis and respects everyone's civil and property rights."

 

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"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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[Citation needed]

 

Why would you need one, its more a view and perspective that people adopt which then would influence general corporate culture

 

The company I work for has similar morals and business principles 


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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"Touch my stuff and i will shoot you, and if I touch your stuff, just go ahead and shoot me. But you and me both like to own stuff, ain't that a bugger?"

 

Citation - me

Edited by Meshugger

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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I was going to make a Marvin the Martian joke, then I realized that one was Warner Bros.


The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

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I'm glad I'm in a job where it's legislated by the Government that I must be physically in the Commonwealth to do my job. With current Technology, I could do my job outside of Australia but I'm not allowed to. So I'm safe from being outsourced.

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I saw in some documentary somewhere that corporations by law have to put profits before people. At least in the US.

 

Found a link that sort of explains what I'm talking about

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0119-04.htm


The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity.

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I saw in some documentary somewhere that corporations by law have to put profits before people. At least in the US.

 

Found a link that sort of explains what I'm talking about

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0119-04.htm

 

Sorry but NO.  There is no such mandate in US corporate law. 

 

The author's reference to section 716 in section A of the Maine Corporate Law is false.  The entirety of Section A of the Maine Corporate Law statutes was repealed in 2001 and replaced by section C.  The clause the author refers to DOES NOT EXIST any longer (and in point of fact, it did not exist when he wrote that article). And there is no similar clause in section C.

 

Although the duties of the director's section in section C now reads as follows:

 

Title 13-C; §831. Standards of conduct for directors

6. Interests of other constituencies.  In discharging their duties, the directors and officers of the corporation may, in considering the best interests of the corporation and of its shareholders, consider the effects of any action upon employees, suppliers and customers of the corporation, communities in which offices or other establishments of the corporation are located and all other pertinent factors.

 

That's hardly a profits over people clause now is it? 

 

http://legislature.maine.gov/statutes/13-A/title13-Ach7sec0.html

 

http://legislature.maine.gov/statutes/13-B/title13-Bch0sec0.html

 

http://legislature.maine.gov/statutes/13-C/title13-Cch0sec0.html

 

 

Now I'm not about to check all corporate statutes for all 50 states but I did check NC and there is no such clause that mandates "profits before people" in the North Carolina Corporate statues either. 

 

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByChapter/Chapter_55.html

 

In fact, there is no requirement in the Maine or NC statutes that obligates corporations to pay dividends to share holders.  In NC, the statute says this:

 

§ 55-6-40.  Distributions to shareholders.

(a)        A board of directors may authorize and the corporation may  make distributions to its shareholders

 

There is no compulsory distribution required, and no legal requirement that "profits come first".

 

PS:  And just so there is no confusion, I don't agree with what Disney did at all.

Edited by kgambit

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