An Honest but Harsh Review on the Setting

[abaris]

 

 

Well but Copenhagen isn't the real name it's København.  It's just foreigners to Scandinavia that call it Copenhagen.  In old norse it's called Kaupmannahøfn which literally means Merchant City. So for me calling things something other than standard english words is no problem

 

 

Well, yeah. Vienna isn't the name of my city either. It's Wien, which again is derived from the Roman Vindobona. There has to be some kind of convention. Especially when it's a game where you don't go through volumes of history books to look up how any name came to be.

[Tigranes]

Anyone who has some familiarity with how such things work, know very well that it's a normal and ordinary feature of all languages. 

 

As abaris says, having some conventions really makes it easier to tell. And we see various such conventional uses in POE: gul & Darghul, or the clearly Italian grammar of everything said by the Vailians, the relation between Glanfathans and Eir Glanfath, etc. 

[cirdanx]

The first part made me angry, then i read everything.

 

I don´t actually agree with the naming part, we can easily scrap that under the rug, fffs Tolkien stole his names happily. If you think they look like crap, thats fine, infact i do agree with you that more practical names would stick more with people. As you said, i remember watchers keep, but i don´t really remember any dungeon or zone except twin elms in PoE...nope none.

 

Everything has influence from fantasy as we know it, but the naming hm. I don´t know, as i said i don´t remember them, but as a hobby writer (yeah that doesnt mean **** i know) i do take care to name places so people can keep it in their heads.

 

You do have some valid points, and like you, i also hope the build upon that game and come out with a second. (or the expansion they are working on)

 

I would still give the setting a bit more credit, even if the wording sucks, it´s kinda interesting (another take on a patheon but i like it). We do have some very good writing in that game.

[MuseBreaks]

I agree 100% percent. The story and setting are dull and uninteresting and are nowhere near Baldur's Gate 2. I hoped for something epic and we got mediocre at best.

 

I will also add that although I do agree with what you said about the language, I think it's only secondary to the overall plot and setting and such. I could have forgiven the language if there was a sense of the epic feeling and interest I had in the Baldur's Gate 2 plot and setting. But there wasn't, so it's all nothing but one big mediocre gray game in terms of plot and setting.

Edited May 8, 2015 by MuseBreaks

[Grinch]

The thing that bothers me with the language is that it immerses you with fantasy name changes  but then at times uses locker room profanity. DA:I does the same thing. It's almost as if the writers were 12 year olds trying to see how many curse words they could get away with. Don't know about anybody else but I lose immersion when it's like that. I don't mind profanity in games but have a reason for the profanity. The Hanging Tree dialogue between you and the dignitary ends up with what I believe is profanity for no reason. All the way through the conversation the dignitary acts in a proper manner then all of a sudden blurts out a profanity in the course of the conversation. To me it didn't make any sense.

 

Aloth's confrontation in front of the inn is the same way. No doubt Aloth insulted the villagers but it didn't come close to what you are supposed to have heard him say which was a profanity. My point is it didn't have to be there. It was clear Aloth was throwing insults. It's as if profanity was thrown in just for the sake of doing it. It's supposed to be a fantasy setting not a locker room

[abaris]

The Hanging Tree dialogue between you and the dignitary ends up with what I believe is profanity for no reason. All the way through the conversation the dignitary acts in a proper manner then all of a sudden blurts out a profanity in the course of the conversation. To me it didn't make any sense.

 

It only ends with profanity if you choose the dialogue options leading up to it. I'm always playing it confrontational, since the self importance of that guy warrants that kind of approach. Characters don't use the F word if there's no reason for it. It's not as if the banter was full with profanity for profanity's sake. Apart from Durance and Iselmyr, but that's perfectly in character.

[Grinch]

It may be true that you have to choose certain dialogue options to see it. My point is that it's not needed. It doesn't fit. At the tree you have a dignitary who interviews newcomers. All business until the character asks about getting help for feeling strange. Then the dignitary goes on about corpse stink and digging for sh**. It could have been worded differently. The way it was worded added nothing to the conversation at all. Then take Aloth's situation at the inn with one of the drunks. The dialogue could have read 'you told him to go sleep with his sister' instead it was 'you told him to go f*** his sister' which added nothing to the conversation. It was pointless.

 

Seeing profanity in a military shooter or a game like GTA is one thing. You expect to see it there. To see it in a fantasy type setting, for me at least, it needs to make sense. The way profanity is used in this game  doesn't make a whole lot of sense or add anything in the way of immersion or story. Like I said it's as if 12 year old wrote the story. I can just see them snickering and laughing believing themselves to be really clever because of the 'swear' words they wrote into the game

 

It's not only this game either. DA:I has certain situations where it doesn't make sense either. Recruiting Blackwall, talking about Grey Wardens and darkspawn for instance. When Blackwell decides to join the Inquistion and is asked what one Grey Warden can do, his answer is 'Save the f****** world'. No profanity from Blackwall before that or after. To me that's not clever writing. It's stupid because there's no point to it. I've read 100's of fantasy novels with no profanity in them at all. I've also read some fantasy novels that were laced with profanity but it fit and made sense with the story the author was trying to tell. I think some game developers are adding profanity just for the sake of doing it. In the two examples I listed PoE and DA:I use it where it's not needed and it seems out of place. It takes away from game immersion the way they use it.

[abaris]

Then the dignitary goes on about corpse stink and digging for sh**. It could have been worded differently. The way it was worded added nothing to the conversation at all. Then take Aloth's situation at the inn with one of the drunks. The dialogue could have read 'you told him to go sleep with his sister' instead it was 'you told him to go f*** his sister' which added nothing to the conversation. It was pointless.

 

Totally fitting in my book. No offense, but your alternative for Aloth is what I would find ridiculous. Yselmir didn't put it politely, so why should my character? And what's more, you don't have to say it. You just have to give it a rest with one of the other options.

Edited May 11, 2015 by abaris

[Grinch]

 

Then the dignitary goes on about corpse stink and digging for sh**. It could have been worded differently. The way it was worded added nothing to the conversation at all. Then take Aloth's situation at the inn with one of the drunks. The dialogue could have read 'you told him to go sleep with his sister' instead it was 'you told him to go f*** his sister' which added nothing to the conversation. It was pointless.

 

Totally fitting in my book. No offense, but your alternative for Aloth is what I would find ridiculous. Yselmir didn't put it politely, so why should my character? And what's more, you don't have to say it. You just have to give it a rest with one of the other options.

 

How is it fitting? And how is the alternative ridiculous? Not everybody goes around throwing out profanities in every conversation. Suppose your character was a priest. Maybe a fighter or rogue would say something like that. Not many priests would. Once you know the game by playing it through you can skip the options with profanity. But with a first play through you can't because you don't know and odds are you may hit an option that has it. The point is it's not needed. It doesn't add a single thing to gameplay or immersion.

 

This really may surprise you but not everybody goes around just waiting for a moment to use profanity. Some people never use it. You claim the Aloth situation is totally fitting. How so? First off Alotth didn't literally say 'go f*** your sister'. He made reference to that but didn't say it. So why does the character have to respond by saying it? It doesn't make any sense. It adds absolutely nothing to the game. Are you telling me that you got more immersed in the game because the words f*** and s*** are in it? It's childish, adolescent crap. It doesn't make the game any more hardcore or mature. There are times and places where profanity fits in. The examples I gave were neither the time or places for it. To me it's a sign of poor writing and an attempt to draw in the 12 year old crowd who gets tickled everytime they see or say 'bad' words. As I said, I've read 100's of fantasy novels without profanity and some with it. Those with it didn't try to force it into the story just for the sake of having it in. Profanity fit in those stories just as it does in some games. It's hard to imagine a GTA game without some profanity in it. It just doesn't fit here.

[Elerond]

 

 

Then the dignitary goes on about corpse stink and digging for sh**. It could have been worded differently. The way it was worded added nothing to the conversation at all. Then take Aloth's situation at the inn with one of the drunks. The dialogue could have read 'you told him to go sleep with his sister' instead it was 'you told him to go f*** his sister' which added nothing to the conversation. It was pointless.

 

Totally fitting in my book. No offense, but your alternative for Aloth is what I would find ridiculous. Yselmir didn't put it politely, so why should my character? And what's more, you don't have to say it. You just have to give it a rest with one of the other options.

 

How is it fitting? And how is the alternative ridiculous? 

 

 

Because in that option your character points out that Aloth clearly insulted that man and not try anyway beat around the bush with that fact like your alternative does. There is such alternative option in that conversation as you can instead to choose to say "You did make a rather lewd suggestion regarding one of the aggressors and his own sister." , which makes your alternative needles and even poorer option than one that is offered.

[Varana]

Yep, you do have that option in your conversation with Aloth. You can be blunt and tell it how it is ("F your sister"), or you can word it... more leniently, which is labelled "Diplomatic".

Edited May 11, 2015 by Varana

[abaris]

 

 

Because in that option your character points out that Aloth clearly insulted that man and not try anyway beat around the bush with that fact like your alternative does. There is such alternative option in that conversation as you can instead to choose to say "You did make a rather lewd suggestion regarding one of the aggressors and his own sister." , which makes your alternative needles and even poorer option than one that is offered.

 

 

Exactly. Nothing to add to this comment.

[Awathorn]

How did nations in Eora come to be? And why is race irrelevant?

 

That is the biggest problem with this setting.

 

Just about the only thing well done is the whole soul thing and pantheon of gods.

[fgalkin]

How did nations in Eora come to be? And why is race irrelevant?

 

That is the biggest problem with this setting.

 

Just about the only thing well done is the whole soul thing and pantheon of gods.

Hm? They tell you how Dyrwood, the Vailian Republics, and Readceras came to be. The rest is outside of the game's scope.

 

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

[Grinch]

 

 

 

Then the dignitary goes on about corpse stink and digging for sh**. It could have been worded differently. The way it was worded added nothing to the conversation at all. Then take Aloth's situation at the inn with one of the drunks. The dialogue could have read 'you told him to go sleep with his sister' instead it was 'you told him to go f*** his sister' which added nothing to the conversation. It was pointless.

 

Totally fitting in my book. No offense, but your alternative for Aloth is what I would find ridiculous. Yselmir didn't put it politely, so why should my character? And what's more, you don't have to say it. You just have to give it a rest with one of the other options.

 

How is it fitting? And how is the alternative ridiculous? 

 

 

Because in that option your character points out that Aloth clearly insulted that man and not try anyway beat around the bush with that fact like your alternative does. There is such alternative option in that conversation as you can instead to choose to say "You did make a rather lewd suggestion regarding one of the aggressors and his own sister." , which makes your alternative needles and even poorer option than one that is offered.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't have to be there in the first place. It adds absolutely nothing to the game. What's the point? It doesn't make the game any more immersive.  It's not like somebody's saying 'Holy s***, a dragon!'. It's adding profanity just for the sake of adding it. They went to all the trouble of changing names like duke to duc, vampire to fampyr etc. Then they used profanity that you could hear on a street corner or locker room. It's poor writing. The game isn't any more mature or hard core because of it. As a matter of fact it makes it seems more juvenile. As I said in my other post, I don't mind profanity when it fits. But it seems out of place. A GTA game or military shooter wouldn't be the same without the profanity. In other words there's a time and place for it.

 

It's not just this game either. DA:I has the same problem. The Blackwall recruitment sequence is fine then all of sudden out of nowhere BAM!. There was no need for it. It didn't make the scene or story any better. Same can be said of Aloth and the Hanging Tree. The story isn't any better because of it. That's what I mean about poor writing. The conversation just dies when your character tells Aloth that they heard the same thing the villagers did. It wasn't expanded on. Aloth claimed a misunderstanding. Your character claims to have heard the same thing. But the conversation went nowhere after that. At least give a reason why Aloth claims a misunderstanding. The way it was written it makes it look like the whole thing was done just to put the word f*** into dialogue somehow.

[Luj1]

 

END NOTE

 

I did not get into Combat, The Exceptionally Dull Stronghold, The Half-Interesting Mega Dungeon (it does not matter if it is 15 floors, Watcher's Keep with 5 levels was much more interesting), The Items where none of them felt any special, The very short and not class specific Talent tree, and all that...

 

As I said, I am happy that Pillars of Eternity exists, I am happy to play it but I really think that you can do much better. I hope the next game in the series will have more polished combat, much more interesting abilities and talents, dual-multi classes, and actually unique items.

 

I also hope that there will be less of enchanting, or a much better system, hunting flowers, body parts and pets are for world of warcraft the intellectual resources might better be spent elsewhere.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

 

I agree with everything you said OP. But this forum is 80% bleeding hearts who will defend Obsidian at all costs. I call them Obsidrones. The setting is mediocre. And the whole game is shallow. 7/10 is realistic for PoE

Edited May 12, 2015 by Luj1

[kaiki]

And why is race irrelevant?

 

 

I'd say that race isn't relevant by default. So in this setting the movements that could lead to racial relevance never happened. Not that race was turned irrelevant, it just never had that power in the first place.

[abaris]

 

The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't have to be there in the first place. It adds absolutely nothing to the game. What's the point? It doesn't make the game any more immersive.

 

 

Hmm, let's see. A drunken brawl?

 

I definitely wouldn't expect polite tea party conversation. Can't speak for DA:I though. I haven't played it, nor will I ever play it.

[Varana]

They give you the opportunity to play a character who swears. How is that wrong? If you don't choose that option, the line will never have appeared in your game world. If you choose that option, it is because the character you're playing would say such things. They give you, the player, the choice to consciously introduce this kind of language in that situation into your game. If you don't think your character would say something like that, choose one of the others.

 

Also, as previously noted: They didn't change "duke" to "duc". They created a language (or parts of a language) that is based on the Romance languages (Italian/Catalan/various others), and the perfectly Italian word "duce" (leader) transforms into a Vailian "duc".

That English happened to borrow the exact same word as "duke", is a nice bonus that ensures understanding of the term, but it is not the source of it.

Similarly, Engwithan is based on Welsh. In Welsh, you write a V as F, so "vampire" becomes "fampyr". It's not necessarily because "we want to be different" but because of "our language would write this word that way".

Edited May 12, 2015 by Varana

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

Then the dignitary goes on about corpse stink and digging for sh**. It could have been worded differently. The way it was worded added nothing to the conversation at all. Then take Aloth's situation at the inn with one of the drunks. The dialogue could have read 'you told him to go sleep with his sister' instead it was 'you told him to go f*** his sister' which added nothing to the conversation. It was pointless.

 

Totally fitting in my book. No offense, but your alternative for Aloth is what I would find ridiculous. Yselmir didn't put it politely, so why should my character? And what's more, you don't have to say it. You just have to give it a rest with one of the other options.

 

How is it fitting? And how is the alternative ridiculous? 

 

 

Because in that option your character points out that Aloth clearly insulted that man and not try anyway beat around the bush with that fact like your alternative does. There is such alternative option in that conversation as you can instead to choose to say "You did make a rather lewd suggestion regarding one of the aggressors and his own sister." , which makes your alternative needles and even poorer option than one that is offered.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't have to be there in the first place.

 

 

It is there to create contrast between Aloth's and Iselmyr's personalities and it also makes sure that player understand why those people become so angry towards Aloth that they were willing to attack him on full daylight. And to why player has choice to say profanities, that is just to give player option to make their character to work better on their vision about the character, not giving such option would much lessen role-play aspect of the game. I would point out that player characters come from all sort of backgrounds like pirates, high way robbers, swords to hire, slaves, craftsman, nobles, royalty, teachers, etc.. So there needs to be large selection of flavor options in conversations that player can choose to make it so that their character feels right. So not offering profanity options would drop lots of nuance and spirit from the game and make it worse than it is. So there is need for such in first place, even if Aloth didn't have such contrasting dual personality.

[Awathorn]

 

 

How did nations in Eora come to be? And why is race irrelevant?

 

That is the biggest problem with this setting.

 

Just about the only thing well done is the whole soul thing and pantheon of gods.

Hm? They tell you how Dyrwood, the Vailian Republics, and Readceras came to be. The rest is outside of the game's scope.

 

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

I'm not talking about countries and their fairly basic and boring origins. I'm talking about nations. Where is the french revolution, enlighment and similar stuff that would enable this people to overcome racial, tribal and feudal obstacles and form "nations"?

[rjshae]

Meh. Not everybody is going to like it. That's just the nature of personal preference. I thought the setting was fine.

[Varana]

 

 

How did nations in Eora come to be? And why is race irrelevant?

 

That is the biggest problem with this setting.

 

Just about the only thing well done is the whole soul thing and pantheon of gods.

Hm? They tell you how Dyrwood, the Vailian Republics, and Readceras came to be. The rest is outside of the game's scope.

 

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

I'm not talking about countries and their fairly basic and boring origins. I'm talking about nations. Where is the french revolution, enlighment and similar stuff that would enable this people to overcome racial, tribal and feudal obstacles and form "nations"?

 

 

How are Eoran "nations" any different from pre-nationalism Earth states? "Nation", in this context, is a fairly vague term signifying regions with a common cultural heritage.

 

Generally, I find it quite shocking that many people apparently can't imagine a society where biological race (which is a ridiculous concept on Earth) is not the main dividing factor.

[Luj1]

The only original thing in the setting/story is blowing a living god with a bomb. All this soul crap is so cliché. Godlikes are just like tieflings and other planar races from DnD. Theyre also implemented very weakly, as I did get like 2 reaction to my Death Godlike the whole game. So yeah I know they wanted to spice it up with godlikes and whatnot, but PoE 's world is still 99% generic epic fantasy

Edited May 12, 2015 by Luj1

[Elerond]

The only original thing in the setting/story is blowing a living god with a bomb. All this soul crap is so cliché. Godlikes are just like tieflings and other planar races from DnD. Theyre also implemented very weakly, as I did get like 2 reaction to my Death Godlike the whole game. So yeah I know they wanted to spice it up with godlikes and whatnot, but PoE 's world is still 99% generic epic fantasy

 

Idea behind godlikes was to be similar to planetouched from D&D, and they decided to use humans, dwarves and elves as their base races because it would make setting more familiar and more easy to approached for people. Dyrwood area is made feel like your typical European based fantasy setting for same reason. And they purposefully tried to make Dyrwood feel similar to Forgotten Realms' Sword Coast area, because in their opinion that was the main thematic feeling that people would except from the game.

 

Something to be cliché it would need to be constantly repeated thing in the genre, which their presentation of cycle of souls and how souls generally work and even how reincarnation of souls works in setting isn't anyway commonly used thematic tool. Of course souls as concept is thousands years old, as is the idea of reincarnation and even the fact that souls can be called back or be trapped, etc. things that they decided to do with them, but overall their approach towards the subject was somewhat new and fresh with some new ideas.

 

They try their best to make Dyrwood area to feel very familiar those that like your medieval European fantasy settings. But I would point out that there is one aspect missing that is typical to high (or epic like you say) fantasy setting, which is good versus evil concept, which Obsidian has tried to tier away in this setting, by making everything to be more nuanced and trying to make all the factions have things that are generally seen as positive and things that are generally seen as negative and over all they have tried to avoid universal moral judgements in their lore.

 

I agree with you that their reactivity towards certain things could be much better and their implementation of godlikes have much to improve. But hopefully they mature these things in expansions and in possible sequels/new games in the world of Eora.