Looting and Rioting in Baltimore

[PrimeJunta]

There's a bigger "megatrend" at work here methinks. 

 

The world order since 1918 has been based on the idea of the nation-state. The idea that there's something called a "nation" and each "nation" should have a "state," i.e. a bunch of territory with a government. This has led to all kinds of consequences, some awful (the little Austrian corporal), some not-so-awful (e.g. the highly cohesive and generally well-functioning small nation-states of northwestern Europe).

 

All this could only function if there was a strong national identity. That is, people felt that they belonged to "a nation" and strongly identified with their "nation-state." And, of course, it left people who, for any of a number of reasons, did not have a nation-state, or did not identify with the nation-state of which they were citizens, out in the cold. 

 

The thing is, this identity is now fragmenting. Not just in the US, but everywhere. More and more people are no longer identifying with their nation-state. Rather, they build their identity from other bits and pieces. Consumer identity ("gamer"). Race. Religion, or lack thereof. Political ideology. These are coalescing into inter- and transnational networks. I identify more with Greek Communists than Finnish nationalists, and the Finnish nationalists identify more with English, Swedish, or Greek nationalists than Finnish Communists.

 

This means that the political and institutional superstructures of the nation-state are being put under more and more strain. We don't really have anything better available to replace them, and we're going to be in a lot of trouble if they fail catastrophically. Supranational organizations like the EU or the UN are clearly not working either.

 

This I think is the big question for the next generation. What kind of social, political, and economic order are we going to come up with when the nation-state crumbles under our feet? I don't know, but the next 30 years or so are going to be pretty interesting. I hope I'll still be here when we start to see the answers.

[213374U]

No. Only a very small fraction of left-wing progressives are actively involved in the Democratic Party on a day-to-day basis. In fact, most of them seem to be pretty displeased with the current state of it. At the same time, though, they still seem to see that party as their best shot at someday actualizing their dream of large-scale coercive redistribution and social engineering, and are willing to do much (incl. compromising their moral integrity and alleged "values") to help it stay in power.

So it's not any mainstream left group in particular that you can point to, and it's not the Democratic Party either. Seems to me like you are constantly referring to some ill-defined and nebulous "left-wing progressives" that don't actually exist? I mean, they may be slightly more real than Sasquatch, but they aren't representative of your average pinko any more than someone who shaves their head and gets a keltenkreuz tattoo on their chest  is representative of "conservatives".

 

Looks like A-level strawmanning to me, chief. Please prove me wrong.

 

 

 

 

//edit: Seems like some people in the press are trying to stir **** up: https://imgur.com/gallery/QVh32

As always I don't know which is worse the lying or how bad they are at it.

 

So people being **** again, I'm shocked. Cops and the media will lie and say that the victim reached for their gun or that they felt "their lives were threatened" to justify putting a whole magazine worth of lead in someone's back. Thugs and the media will lie and say they are demonstrating peacefully after burning down the drug store they just looted, and cutting open the fire hose used to put out the fire.

 

Remember the time when people actually did as they said? Me neither.

[HoonDing]

Journal entry Day 2: I still have not received any redistributed wealth. Im starting to think the entire concept is yet more internet hot air. How will I pay for my wifes new car without the spoils of other peoples efforts?? Why cant the world see my disadvantages and take care of them for me?? Darkness approaches...

And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.

[Gfted1]

 

Journal entry Day 2: I still have not received any redistributed wealth. Im starting to think the entire concept is yet more internet hot air. How will I pay for my wifes new car without the spoils of other peoples efforts?? Why cant the world see my disadvantages and take care of them for me?? Darkness approaches...

And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.

 

 

Do you have any loots for me, good sir? My hips are all jacked up and I need to get them fixed:

 

[Rosbjerg]

This I think is the big question for the next generation. What kind of social, political, and economic order are we going to come up with when the nation-state crumbles under our feet? I don't know, but the next 30 years or so are going to be pretty interesting. I hope I'll still be here when we start to see the answers.

 

I don't think it'll happen that fast - but I do see a lot of anti growth paradigm movements and shifts in consumer thinking here - and a focus on the communal rather than national though, so it's definitely in the works.

[PrimeJunta]

@Gfted1 That is really, really sh*tty, even by your standards.

[Hurlshort]

At first I thought Gfted1 crossed the line of good taste, but then I saw PrimeJunta's response, and realized it was a perfect post.  

[Gfted1]

@Gfted1 That is really, really sh*tty, even by your standards.

 

Werent you teaching me a lesson by not talking to me anymore?

 

At first I thought Gfted1 crossed the line of good taste, but then I saw PrimeJunta's response, and realized it was a perfect post.  

 

In hindsight it may be in poor taste. Just imagine the callouses he must have on his testicles. *shudder*

[Malcador]

Man, that was lame, Gfted.

[Gfted1]

Its a tough world. Hopefully the random Google image of some Indian bum wont cause too much consternation. I also highly advise you guys don't ever Google anything, ever. No telling what will pop up in the results.

[Malcador]

My pun failed, I am saddened.

[Gfted1]

Oh, now I get it! Not bad. But now you've brought the wrath of internet warriors upon yourself.

[Meshugger]

Man, that was lame, Gfted.

 

!!

 

 

[Malcador]

Oh, now I get it! Not bad. But now you've brought the wrath of internet warriors upon yourself.

So the same crowd as every other day then ?

[PrimeJunta]

Man, I didn't think my opinion of you folks could fall any lower. 

 

Methinks it's time for another vacation from this here fine establishment.

[Meshugger]

Man, I didn't think my opinion of you folks could fall any lower. 

 

Methinks it's time for another vacation from this here fine establishment.

 

Oh, come on. If you want to leave in a righteous and grandiose manner, then please give it a little more effort. 

 

I'll rate your post with a D-

Edited April 29, 2015 by Meshugger

[Longknife]

//edit: Seems like some people in the press are trying to stir **** up: https://imgur.com/gallery/QVh32

 

 

I wanna take this moment to apologize to you guys if I sound a bit like a broken record in what I'm about to say. I'm not sure why I always repeat myself, whether it's warranted or not or whether it's just me relating my experiences to the issue in ways I know how to, but I cannot stop stressing how it never seems to amaze me how poorly people perform at being objective.

 

I can fully look at what I've seen from the Baltimore protests/riots and say that it's shameful and should be put to an end. I can look at what I've seen and say that race does seem to be developing into a dividing line here, and even if it were warranted to a degree (I've since read some troubling things about Baltimore's history), that won't change the fact that this looks horrendous from an outsider's third person perspective (a perspective highly cherished in the court of law) and that two wrongs do not make a right.

 

 

I can admit race is an issue here and that we can see some (a disappointing amount; not neccesarily a majority but a large enough percent to cause concern regardless) black people on the street acting downright shameful towards white people for no reason, and I can do so because I am able to reflect on my own statement objectively and realize that nowhere in this statement am I saying something racist. I am not implying black people are inheritly hateful, uncivilized, or what-have-you, nor am I implying these attitudes extend outside of this very specific community, nor am I even saying this applies universally to all black people of the community.

 

 

When I read stuff like the "article" linked above, I cannot feel that this is good intentions meets an inability to be objective. Yes, there is racist stuff going on. From the cops? Probably, given Baltimore's history. I don't neccesarily think race was an issue with Freddie Grey given that the guy had a VERY healthy criminal record (I would sooner consider this a story of police brutality vs. repeat offenders rather than one vs a minority), but regardless it is being perceived as one, and based on what I've read and heard about Baltimore, I doubt those sentiments are unfounded. Is there now racist stuff going on on behalf of the black people in that community? Absolutely. I'm sorry, but the footage and photos we've seen heavily implies white people are being targeted. I see absolutely zero reason to deny this. Sometimes the truth is hard to swallow, but it does not change that it's the truth. From the white people....? I don't live in that community so I don't know how much race plays a role in that community outside of the cops, but I do know that we've yet to get a photo or footage of any white person there acting hatefully towards the community. At most, I've found a video recorded by a guy who wrote a book on....something. Couldn't find much about it, but was about black-on-white crime, so the guy clearly had his biases, but even in his video, he merely filmed the going-ons outside of his apartment and didn't provoke or interact at all.

 

  This is all very hard to watch because it will only snowball and get worse. Today it's some drunkards arguing with some angry black guys, tomorrow it's the drunkard's son having a poor opinion of black people, which the rioter's son also shares in regards to white people.

 

I fully believe in the truth. Censoring something or changing the facts of the matter because you're worried people "can't handle it" or won't be objective about it themselves and believe this reflects the actions of an entire race...? You're essentially guilty of the same. You're buying into that exact narrative, condoning yourself as though-and acting as though the actions of a few people do reflect the attitudes of an entire race.

 

  I spent a time of my life in Oklahoma. My family wasn't the wealthiest, so I actually lived in "the ghetto." Funny actually, I've never lived in a neighborhood where my race was the majority (though obviously my race is still the majority for each location as a full community). I lived amongst asians in San Francisco and the Berkeley area with my first friends being named Taka and Atsuko and the like, lived amongst black people named Markell and Shawnte, and currently even in Germany I find myself in a turkish neighborhood surrounded by Hülya's and Timur's. But I digress, that's just me realizing that fun fact.

  I remember two distinct situations in my lifetime there. One involved a black kid playing the race card left and right. It was so stupid, he was always getting into trouble and then claiming it was because of his race. No dude, it's because you're a punk. Take responsibility.

   Another? Some friends of mine got arrested. Why? This kid that - ask anyone who went to high school with him - was a total racist? He started running his mouth calling them trash and the n-word and all sorts of stuff, just provoking them out of nowhere. Know what happened? They broke his jaw. I thought it was poetic as ****. He ran his mouth, they broke his jaw so he couldn't anymore. Done and done. It became a front-page story for the town about black thugs attacking some poor good kid, and know what happened? Well suddenly people started looking at the "good kid's" facebook, noticing all the confederate flags and white surpremacy pages he had plastered everywhere and liked. It got reported on briefly, but his family quickly deleted his facebook to kill the evidence before it was copied anywhere. His family was also unfortunately fairly wealthy, so two of my friends ended up doing jail time. (for those of you wondering, it is possible to get off in such a scenario if you've been provoked with racial slurs and hate speech and you did nothing to start the provokation). It was kind of disgusting to watch, because anyone from our high school class knew the answer and knew who was guilty of provoking it all without even needing to read the story, just by hearing the names.

  It was also a thing where if a friend of mine and I wanted to hang out and drive somewhere, my black friends would ask me to drive. Why? We got pulled over less. At first I was a tad skeptical, more in the sense that I doubted it would be THAT noticeable (yknow like maybe we'd get pulled over once as opposed to zero times if I drove in the entirety of our usage of a car) and we could laugh it off, but it quickly became apparent that wasn't the case. Even had one friend end up in the mayor's office because he'd been pulled over like 16 times in one month for driving while big and black (tall dude) and he was ready to take some serious action if someone didn't scream at the police force. Worked though, they never touched him again.

 

My point with this is there are no universal answers. "No ****," am I right? And yet there always seems to be people who cannot disassociate actions from races and think ALL circumstances even remotely involving race must reflect the entirety of the population. You show me a black guy being oppressed, I'll show you racist black guy with no reason to be. You show me some black guy causing all sorts of problems for his community, I'll show you a black valedictorian. Point is that people are different, and trying to define anyone by their race is nonsense. Some more ignorant folks might do this, but unfortunately we seem to have some other ignorant folks who wish to combat the others by blatantly lying and spreading misinformation about the facts.

 

 

All I'm saying is, let's not lie to ourselves. A lot of the Baltimore videos suggest racism from many of the black rioters. Let's not make derptard statements like "HURRR DATS HOW BLACKS R," but let's also not let fear of such statements popping up prevent us from acknowledging the truth. Let's also try and understand the situation, because I promise you if you do some digging in regards to Baltimore police and the city in general, this is not an overnight issue by any means. Whether Freddie Grey was targeted due to his race of his criminal record I find irrelevant; what's relevant is the symbolism people are perceiving from this case.

   We have every motivation to review and discuss any issues there may be in Baltimore and the Baltimore police department, but when you let those hooligans run around tearing **** up and try to pretend it's not happening? I don't care HOW unfair they think the Baltimore police have been to them in the past, that does not justify acting like **** and thugs now. I would be 100% behind the police for arresting every single one of those guys who's been going nuts, and if they were to play the race card, I'd have limited sympathy. And if they wish to be taken seriously? This needs to stop. Otherwise, none of the truly potential racist issues within the police force will stop, as they'll feel their racist thoughts were very much warranted.

 

Please name the amount of violent protestors and rioters you know from history who got their way. Now name the peaceful ones who got their way. Guess which group wins? Yeah....

 

Yeah, maybe it is a bit of a weird retort.

What do you guys consider problematic about this, though?

 

 

 

Because it highlights how it's clearly a race issue. I do not take kindly to people who fly the confederate flag. This flag I would only welcome under very certain circumstances. Seeing it during riots where the targets seem to be white people, at a time where the city feels divided by race? No ****ing way I'm happy to see that flag.

 

 It would be a double standard to welcome this one while condemning the confederate flag. There are circumstances where you can argue "yes but this one carries less weight and doesn't have an offensive connotation with it," but this is not one of them. This is this flag being flown at a time when the city feels divided by race. You would flip if you saw a white person react to these riots by flying the confederate flag, you should flip when you see this flag too. It will only promote to serve an us vs. them mentality.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Longknife

[Meshugger]

^Ever thought of taking a job as mediator/negotiatior in peace conferences?

 

Good news for once, btw: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/29/us/baltimore-protests/index.html

[Tort]

Yeah it's just funny that most of the people getting wrongly shot share a couple of particularly noticeable physical characteristics.

Depends on whether they will also show in a demographic break down of crime committed in that area.

 

These are indispensable parts of any lasting solution, but so is addressing systemic racism. A community outreach program by the police force simply won't work if at the same time they're engaging in the shenaningans they're currently engaging in. It'll be rightly seen as an attempt to paper over the problems rather than address them.

Now days, so often people blame the government for everything e.g. I see parents who shouldn't be allowed to get near kids, ranting how the school system failed to raise educate their bully\retard kids. Bad bad teachers... And while in our case poverty is certainly a major contributing factor to crime, I hate when its being used as an excuse. Especially in relation to the afro-american community and their historical grievances. IMO there is nothing more destructive then the self perpetuating cycle of 'victimhood".

 

There are two sides to every confrontation. While it is possible that your police force, which is constantly put to scrutiny, go through special sensitivity programs and work with the community in outreach program are at fault in this violence as a result of its "shenaningans" and "systemic racism". I wonder if it is a case of "shenaningans" and "systemic racism", or only perceived as such, and if so why most of the people who resort to violence there share a couple of particularly noticeable physical characteristics.

[Valsuelm]

 

Man, I didn't think my opinion of you folks could fall any lower. 

 

Methinks it's time for another vacation from this here fine establishment.

 

Oh, come on. If you want to leave in a righteous and grandiose manner, then please give it a little more effort. 

 

I'll rate your post with a D-

 

 

Not everyone here operates on a 5th grade trolling mentality.

 

Many of the most recent posters in this thread have a lot of growing up to do. It's sadly doubtful they'll ever do it at this point.

 

I just about never agree with PrimeJunta, but the immaturity, tastelessness, and derailing attempts indeed has sunk quite low. It's unfortunate that yet again, a moderator (same one as before) is the prime instigator of this off topic trolling crud that drives people from threads and from the forum all together.

[Hurlshort]

Yes, we all need to take things more seriously around here.  The know-it-alls may get upset.

 

Edited April 29, 2015 by Hurlshot

[Meshugger]

 

 

Man, I didn't think my opinion of you folks could fall any lower. 

 

Methinks it's time for another vacation from this here fine establishment.

 

Oh, come on. If you want to leave in a righteous and grandiose manner, then please give it a little more effort. 

 

I'll rate your post with a D-

 

 

Not everyone here operates on a 5th grade trolling mentality.

 

Many of the most recent posters in this thread have a lot of growing up to do. It's sadly doubtful they'll ever do it at this point.

 

I just about never agree with PrimeJunta, but the immaturity, tastelessness, and derailing attempts indeed has sunk quite low. It's unfortunate that yet again, a moderator (same one as before) is the prime instigator of this off topic trolling crud that drives people from threads and from the forum all together.

 

 

I respectfully disagree. When the tension is high, humor is the best medicine. 

[Valsuelm]

Yes, we all need to take things more seriously around here.  The know-it-alls may get upset.

 

Grow up. Seriously. Please.

[Meshugger]

Yes, we all need to take things more seriously around here.  The know-it-alls may get upset.

 

 

[Malcador]

Not everyone here operates on a 5th grade trolling mentality.

 

Many of the most recent posters in this thread have a lot of growing up to do. It's sadly doubtful they'll ever do it at this point.

 

I just about never agree with PrimeJunta, but the immaturity, tastelessness, and derailing attempts indeed has sunk quite low. It's unfortunate that yet again, a moderator (same one as before) is the prime instigator of this off topic trolling crud that drives people from threads and from the forum all together.

Ah was wondering when this scolding would show up, heh. Nothing wrong with making a bad pun now and then, surprised it was missed the first time around And I can't pass those up, even though it did come a bit out of left field. Rather surprised that made him flounce off, seeing how he's gotten stuck in in threads before.

Moderators aren't our parents in that they serve as role models, they are just people who have to ban people and tidy up posts, so no need to constantly ride Gtfed1's ass about it. Ignore him as well, then.

 

I suppose I just take a less serious view of an internet forum, let alone the OT forum for a game company.