Lack of evil companions (potential spoilers)

[Avantre]

 

 

I agree, make a rogue companion in the expansion and have him/her be a heartless villain. Some one truly despicable.

Nah, it's always the rogue. Make the Monk companion in the expansion heartlessly evil instead.

 

 

I'd prefer to see the evil Barbarian myself.

 

 

I never have use for monks.

 

When you think about a Monk in this game, though, they take wounds in order to give them out. A slightly suicidal sado-masochistic thrill-seeker who jumps into danger and loves liquifying enemy's internal organs with their punches practically writes itself.

[Atheosis]

I think the issue is that most of the companions are not driven by moral/alignment issues as much as personal loyalties to various factions/people. Frankly, the only Good character is Eder - the rest are all different shades of Neutral, by Great Wheel standards.

 

But Durance is definitely either Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil, and Aloth can turn all Lawful Evil under the right circumstances.

 

Grieving Mother is most certainly a "good" person.  Her alignment would probably be Neutral Good in D&D.

[Elerond]

 

 

 

I agree, make a rogue companion in the expansion and have him/her be a heartless villain. Some one truly despicable.

Nah, it's always the rogue. Make the Monk companion in the expansion heartlessly evil instead.

 

 

I'd prefer to see the evil Barbarian myself.

 

 

I never have use for monks.

 

When you think about a Monk in this game, though, they take wounds in order to give them out. A slightly suicidal sado-masochistic thrill-seeker who jumps into danger and loves liquifying enemy's internal organs with their punches practically writes itself.

 

 

Forton is actually ninth companion in the game but he is just so evil that he don't even introduce himself to player let alone join them in their desperate quest to find sleep.

[gkathellar]

 

I think the issue is that most of the companions are not driven by moral/alignment issues as much as personal loyalties to various factions/people. Frankly, the only Good character is Eder - the rest are all different shades of Neutral, by Great Wheel standards.

 

But Durance is definitely either Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil, and Aloth can turn all Lawful Evil under the right circumstances.

 

Grieving Mother is most certainly a "good" person.  Her alignment would probably be Neutral Good in D&D.

 

 

 

Grieving Mother doesn't believe people have agency or rights. She does not seek to cultivate the good in people. She is manipulative in the extreme. Her only interest is the welfare of children.

 

She is principled in the extreme. That makes her lawful. She is benign. That makes her non-evil.

 

You can make the argument that she's Lawful Good. I would say she's decidedly Lawful Netural, as a matter of intent.

 

Edited April 16, 2015 by gkathellar

[FlintlockJazz]

SPOILERS PEOPLE!!!

 

 

Jesus, watch what you are saying!

[Atheosis]

 

 

I think the issue is that most of the companions are not driven by moral/alignment issues as much as personal loyalties to various factions/people. Frankly, the only Good character is Eder - the rest are all different shades of Neutral, by Great Wheel standards.

 

But Durance is definitely either Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil, and Aloth can turn all Lawful Evil under the right circumstances.

 

Grieving Mother is most certainly a "good" person.  Her alignment would probably be Neutral Good in D&D.

 

 

Grieving Mother doesn't believe people have agency or rights. She does not seek to cultivate the good in people. She is manipulative in the extreme. Her only interest is the welfare of children.

 

She is principled in the extreme. That makes her lawful. She is benign. That makes her non-evil.

 

You can make the argument that she's Lawful Good. I would say she's decidedly Lawful Netural, as a matter of intent.

 

 

She follows her own beliefs in what is right rather than external principles or laws.  That generally means she would not be Lawful.  Her actions are generally oriented towards doing that which she feels will benefit others (the question of means vs ends is immaterial relative to the core motivation).  That means she is Good.  How you could see her as Lawful Neutral is beyond me.  An argument could be made for Neutral I suppose.

[gkathellar]

 

First of all, let's be clear about one important concept: Lawful does not necessarily mean "adheres to the letter of the law." A law (or body of laws) is merely a rule that a government imposes on those who are subject to its power. A lawful alignment, on the other hand, represents an orderly approach to matters of ethics and personal conduct. Most lawful characters do respect the order that the laws of the realm represent, but adherence to local ordinances is only one way of demonstrating a lawful alignment.

 

To be lawful is to be in favor of conformity and consistency, to act in a systematic and uniform fashion, and to take responsibility. As a lawful person, you establish patterns and precedents and stick to them unless you can see a good reason to do otherwise. Methodical efficiency is your byword, and you believe in the concept of duty. You plan and organize your activities to achieve particular goals, not just to satisfy impulsive desires. You believe a proper way exists to accomplish any goal, though it may not always be the traditional, tried-and-true way. Likewise, you cultivate long-term relationships and endeavor to build trust between your associates and yourself. As a lawful person, you recognize that most laws have valid purposes that promote social order, but you are not necessarily bound to obey them to the letter. In particular, if you are both good and lawful, you have no respect for a law is unfair or capricious.

 

 - http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20050325a

 

External principles or laws haven't had much to do with Lawful alignment since this take was established during Planescape. As for good,

 

 

she doesn't act for the benefit of anyone other than children. This isn't based on any moral prerogative - it's a sacred duty.

 

[Emptiness]

But I have find morally questionable side from all the companions

 

 

Durance: God killer, support genocidal actions, has questionable about many of population groups in Eora, etc.

Grieving Mother: Is willing to do quite questionable actions to save children (or what in her opinion saves children).

Edér: Is in some cases and willing to look other way one questionable acts are done around him and is quite uncaring towards lots of things that other people see as bad.

Sagani: Leave her children and husband behind for several years to go hunt something that she don't really even believe that she will ever find, mainly because she feels boredom towards her life.

Kana: Seeks mainly ways to get name for himself, but tries to hide it behind excuse that he is doing it for his country and seeking knowledge for next generations. Although he has lots of naivety in him and he seems to be willing to put his head in sand that face the reality.

Pallegina: Has strong belief that results are more important than means, has often quite little care towards people that she don't find living up to her standards and she seems to often think that she knows better than others what is good and what is bad.

Hiravias: He lets his belief that he is wronged or that he is unworthy or maybe both to over shadow everything in his life and reject everybody in his life and make him wander world alone.

Aloth: He is member of Leaden Key, he is willing to kill people instead of telling truth of his condition because he finds it embarrassing.

 

 

Of course every character also has their morally upright side.

 

Speaking of morally questionable actions: You do know that this is a "NO SPOILERS" section of the forum, right?

[Luckmann]

 

But I have find morally questionable side from all the companions

 

 

Durance: God killer, support genocidal actions, has questionable about many of population groups in Eora, etc.

Grieving Mother: Is willing to do quite questionable actions to save children (or what in her opinion saves children).

Edér: Is in some cases and willing to look other way one questionable acts are done around him and is quite uncaring towards lots of things that other people see as bad.

Sagani: Leave her children and husband behind for several years to go hunt something that she don't really even believe that she will ever find, mainly because she feels boredom towards her life.

Kana: Seeks mainly ways to get name for himself, but tries to hide it behind excuse that he is doing it for his country and seeking knowledge for next generations. Although he has lots of naivety in him and he seems to be willing to put his head in sand that face the reality.

Pallegina: Has strong belief that results are more important than means, has often quite little care towards people that she don't find living up to her standards and she seems to often think that she knows better than others what is good and what is bad.

Hiravias: He lets his belief that he is wronged or that he is unworthy or maybe both to over shadow everything in his life and reject everybody in his life and make him wander world alone.

Aloth: He is member of Leaden Key, he is willing to kill people instead of telling truth of his condition because he finds it embarrassing.

 

 

Of course every character also has their morally upright side.

 

Speaking of morally questionable actions: You do know that this is a "NO SPOILERS" section of the forum, right?

 

...but.. he's using the spoiler tag. :|

[Sabin Stargem]

I prefer companions to not be readily evil or divisive:  In the most WRPGs, I had to meta in order to avoid picking up NPCs that wouldn't fit into my group, or use mods to ensure certain characters play nice together.  If anything, I would prefer it if things slowly came to a boil before a decision had to be made about my party composition, with my stats & quests allowing for the possibility of making peace between companions.

[Namutree]

I prefer companions to not be readily evil or divisive: 

You're in luck then. PoE has plenty of those already.

[Psychonaut]

I havent finished he game yet, but what I understood from hanging around a bit with all the companions is that there are no evil ones. Ability to pick sinister voice for your Charname seems wasted, since it sets unfulfilled expectations. I understand that this is no DnD with its strict alignment system, yet I miss companions like Xzar, Edwin and Montaron. And in this game companions dont seem that grey moraled either, most of them are Good in DnD terms... In fact, only Aloth's melancholy hints that he might be self-centered, ALL others care too much about social issues of their background.

 

Please add egoist companions in future expansions. I want to roleplay my power-hungry Neutral Evil wizard in company of like-minded fellows.

 

...So what you're basically asking for are more insipid, mustache-twirling caricatures who are amoral for the sake of amorality.  This is something that PoE stridently and rightly avoids.  Other posters in this thread have shown how the existing companions each are willing to do or abide questionable actions for their own reasons, which is exactly how it should be.  The D&D alignment paradigm has no place here.

[Lmaoboat]

I wouldn't go as far as to say the PoE companions are mostly neutral, apart from Durance maybe. I'd say most of them have their flaws, but given their personalities, I don't think many of them would really stick around with an evil PC. 

[Dravin84]

There is Evil and Evil... Many people tend to associate evil with nonsense over the top cruel action but the game per se give you the opportunity to make morally bad and evil choice... I think one of the most evil like character in this game is Durance of course not lunatic evil but him was one,,, well no spoilers here....

 

Allignment was the worst thing invented in D&D

 

I agree. I personally find what I call "kick puppy evil" to tend towards the boring and unsatisfying*. Don't get me wrong, some settings fit that type of evil and can be amusing, but what I enjoy most is being able to make rational decisions in furtherance of my character's self interest even if it comes at a cost to others and seeing evil characters do the same.

 

*Disclaimer: If your one true love is kick puppy evil I'm not saying you're wrong to enjoy it so.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Dravin84

[LatisARG]

Just bring me some Korgan-like NPC

 

Love that bloody dwarf

[Failion]

I felt all the companions were evil other then Kana. Korgan was actually a nice guy because he didn't like harming kids.

[Verenti]

I also would consider Durance on the "evil" side, if you read all his dialogues. An unpleasant (if occasionally comment-amusing) person indeed. But he's not eeeeveeelllllll.

 

I don't find any of the companions super good or super evil in any obvious cliche ways (which I personally like). They have histories, beliefs and goals that they'll impart and you either agree/respect them or dislike/don't respect them or somewhere inbetween. Kind of like in real life.

The very real possibility remains that "evil" is a myth, created to unify people against others. Too often evil is just a term for "the other side". One of my favourite quotes on the topic is "There are few wars between good and evil: most are between one good and another good."

 

But Durance does make the comment he wants to mercy-kill the weak by burning them alive. So if any character comes close to evil in this game, it might be him.

[Emptiness]

...but.. he's using the spoiler tag. :|

 

Alas, no, he isn't.  I added that spoiler tag to illustrate what his post should have looked like, and also so that if he corrects the problem my quote will not then be perpetuating it.  Sorry if that was not clear.

 

[elf1]

maybe not evil but more characters with "alternative morals"?

this would only be important if characters have stronger reactions to your actions though

as it is Eder has no problem following my cruel 2 deceptive 4 character around so it doen't matter if he's good or not

[rustypup]

I must confess that having all party members gel with little dissent is a bit of a let down. I get why this is, but there were few things more amusing than watching the party disband and attack itself because of what someone said about our Henry... for the 10th time.. 

 

+1 for psychopathic companions. 

[FlintlockJazz]

 

...but.. he's using the spoiler tag. :|

 

Alas, no, he isn't.  I added that spoiler tag to illustrate what his post should have looked like, and also so that if he corrects the problem my quote will not then be perpetuating it.  Sorry if that was not clear.

 

Yeah, the **** has basically spoiled Aloth for me with that post of his, I do not know that and would have liked to have been surprised by it, but not now.  Shouldn't have to be careful on a forum marked "NO SPOILERS".   

[b0rsuk]

Count me as another person who has been spoiled about Aloth in this NO SPOILERS forum. I chose not to hire him in my first playthrough because I dislike elves and smug people. Plus it sounded like he was provoking peasants to kill them.

Edited April 17, 2015 by b0rsuk

[LadyCrimson]

Ok, I think this topic has too much potential to be spoilery re: companions. Instead of trying to spoiler tag everything, I'm going to move this topic.

[Alweth]

Most people at least try to convince themselves and other's that they're good, even if they aren't really. It sounds to me like NPC companions are managing to fool you, OP, at least.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Alweth

[archangel979]

I also would consider Durance on the "evil" side, if you read all his dialogues. An unpleasant (if occasionally comment-amusing) person indeed. But he's not eeeeveeelllllll.

 

I don't find any of the companions super good or super evil in any obvious cliche ways (which I personally like). They have histories, beliefs and goals that they'll impart and you either agree/respect them or dislike/don't respect them or somewhere inbetween. Kind of like in real life.

That is because Obsidian didn't implement any quests for them that are connected with their belief system. What does Edwin do when you first meet him? He asks you to help him kill another wizard. In BG2 he organizes murders and such.

Durance waits for your on a crossroad, talks **** the whole game and does nothing.

Edited April 17, 2015 by archangel979