Ranger should get an overhaul

[sparklecat]

Really, you'd think with how often Itumaak gets knocked out in combat, Sagani would be used to it by now.

[Gromnir]

Ammunition... gross.

when fo3 were being developed by interplay/black isle back in 2003, ammo were a hot-button issue.  maybe 2003?  am not sure o' the date for van buren.  date doesn't matter, but Gromnir recalls arguing quite heated with josh 'bout how sucktastic ammo is and that it don't actual work to balance ranged weapons, particularly in an open-world game.  josh disagreed with us... more than a little.  josh were a little more excitable in those days.  anywho, it only took a decade for obsidian to come around to Gromnir's way o' thinking regarding ammo.  is possible that josh still likes ammo, but am thankful that the obsidian pov has evolved.  yes, the evolution were glacial, but we gotta take what we can get.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited April 17, 2015 by Gromnir

[sparklecat]

I'd really like ammo types, via ranger abilities rather than actual items you equip, that apply different effects on a crit, given how Sagani holds my party's record for most crits.  Be a nice way to make rangers more interesting, I'd think.

[Luckmann]

I'd really like ammo types, via ranger abilities rather than actual items you equip, that apply different effects on a crit, given how Sagani holds my party's record for most crits.  Be a nice way to make rangers more interesting, I'd think.

Thing is, you'd need to expend Abilities or Talents to pick that up, and you're only talking about Rangers, which cuts out everyone else that wants to use ranged weapons, and then there's the rangers that aren't archers.

 

With ammunition, you can not just have special arrows, special bullets or special bolts, with diverse and different effects (High-Accuracy Bullets, -DR Bolts, Gas-Cloud Arrows, etc), but they'd be available for everyone, not just Rangers, you could move them between characters, and you could switch freely between the various kinds (Fire Arrow, Frost Arrow, Acid Arrow, etc).

[Phoynix]

"This is just getting sad. Stop. Please stop. I can feel the braincells dying just from reading this."

 

False negative...

No evidence exists that you have any braincells in the first place to kill.

 

[Lightzy]

Why the **** is my ranger getting so crap because his pet is sleeping? it's not dead, it never dies!!!

EVERY ****ING COMBAT ENCOUNTER MY RANGER "GRIEVES FOR IT'S LOST COMPANION" which is never lost. This is your idea of a class?!?

 

Please remove this "grieving the sleeper" bull****, give the ranger druid buff spells and special arrows (rangers in divinity:original sin were damn fun), give the pet an amulet slot, and there you go.

[Silent Winter]

^rename 'bonded grief' to 'bonded loss' - the ranger is bonded to their companion - having their companion unconscious saps them of some of their ability.

Ranger and companion draw strength from each other - with one down, they get worse.

 

I had the same problem with Sagani's pet getting knocked out a lot - until I stopped the fox from charging face first into melee - now I get Itumaak on the sides more, after Eder has engaged his fill, and I remember to heal endurance for them too.  Now, Sagani and Itumaak are useful.  (Admittedly not as powerful as some of the other classes and could be improved by making the pet a little tougher / having talents to improve general pet defence).

[Jimmysdabestcop]

I rather the Ranger lose 50% of his Endurance and HP then drop Accuracy.

 

But I only brought Sagani out to do her quest. The way it is I will never play my PC as a Ranger and never want a Ranger in my party. I just dont want another character/pet/companion to manage.

 

Unless scripts ever get put into the game.

[Blovski]

First of all I am sorry if this topic is in the wrong corner.

 

Second: I want to thank Obsidian for this great game.

 

Third: I love to play the ranger-class in every game.

 

Baldurs Gate

Baldurs Gate 2

Icewind Dale

IWD2...

 

I know that PoE isn't DnD.

 

I'm sorry to say that the ranger is useless in PoE. You send out your pet to annoy somebody while your ranger stands somewhere and marks the target, then one wounding shot and perhaps to stun it with your binding roots or another target or envenomed strike... and then the ranger stands there and afk-autoshot...

 

There is no combat mechanic... like the cipher or the barb or the wizard...

 

It's a great idea with the Pet-companion and that the ranger focus on range attacks but the problem is that you only have one shot (wounding-shot) and one dbuff (mark), while the other talents focus on your pet and that's a little bit poor. For a Ranger there should be more advantage if he's using his bow/crossbow/gun. The passiv talents suck... I want to click the right things to get the right target down... I want a mechanic

And there is one other thing that's really annoying. When the pet dies then the Ranger gets this dbuff... I like the idea... but when somebody hits my dog I would first of all be really angry before i'm starting to mourn...

 

My Suggestions...

Give the Ranger-Class more supporting skills and a better mechanic.

perhaps more/better shots like a "lower-DT-shot "or a "hammershot" (stun/knock out) whatever just to make the ranger more usable and not standing somewhere alone in the woods and shoot.

And another thing is the dbuff (when pet dies) there should be a time (probably 3-5 seconds) where the ranger gets really angry (perhaps +might, +accuracy for that time) and then after the time he gets the dbuff (would make the game more reality like xDxDxD)

perhaps there is a way to make 2 different rangers one who focus on the pet-talents and the other focus on his shots...

 

I want to know/read/hear the thoughts of other players about it... i don't want the ranger to get an OP-class... i just want the ranger to get more mechanic in his playstyle...

 

just for discussion...

please do not pick on me

I really don't agree that rangers are useless, though I think they are kinda limited in their good build options and if pets are affected by athletics/fatigue they really shouldn't be.

 

Rangers are really fantastic archers (with a +15 ranged accuracy bonus, loads of really sound ranged talents). Companions just are not durable enough later in the game for higher difficulties right now imo, though the use of the pet is as a second line blocker rather than a frontline fighter. The ranger has one of the best active talents in the game in the form of binding roots... keep the toughest enemy in a group stuck for 30 seconds with 5 uses per rest, and the ranged bonus makes them really good scroll/spellsfromitems users.

 

What I'd like to see is the companion talents *all* adding some durability to the companion and the companion's unique abilities scaling with level so you have a meaningful choice between boosting your companion and increasing your archery and whatever else.

 

As far as talent additions go, I'd really like something like

 

Vampiric Bond - Timed duration, X/day. The Ranger and Companion heal each other (as with a Draining effect) when they deal damage.

 

Bonded Grief would be fine if the pet was a bit more durable and the ranger had meaningful ways to preserve their pet.

[b0rsuk]

Why do people have problems with animal companions being knocked off ? I use companions not as frontline tanks, but as suplementary ones. Guarding a flank is not good, because it's easier for them to become surrounded. One character to the left, one character to the right, the companion in the middle, and make sure the companion is not engaging more than 1 enemy.

[Phoynix]

Rangers dont get +15 accuracy with ranged weapons... unless you are talking about Talents you need to pick... they get accuracy very high(30) and roll 30 when attacking at level 1 for attack.

 

What they could do is make the Elf accuracy bonus apply to the ranger...and give them a lesser +2 accuracy/defense buff... because its actually kinda overpowered as it stands... if you WANT to make the best ranger you can you need to go elf(disregarding abusing quick swap volly fire)

 

First of all I am sorry if this topic is in the wrong corner.

 

Second: I want to thank Obsidian for this great game.

 

Third: I love to play the ranger-class in every game.

 

Baldurs Gate

Baldurs Gate 2

Icewind Dale

IWD2...

 

I know that PoE isn't DnD.

 

I'm sorry to say that the ranger is useless in PoE. You send out your pet to annoy somebody while your ranger stands somewhere and marks the target, then one wounding shot and perhaps to stun it with your binding roots or another target or envenomed strike... and then the ranger stands there and afk-autoshot...

 

There is no combat mechanic... like the cipher or the barb or the wizard...

 

It's a great idea with the Pet-companion and that the ranger focus on range attacks but the problem is that you only have one shot (wounding-shot) and one dbuff (mark), while the other talents focus on your pet and that's a little bit poor. For a Ranger there should be more advantage if he's using his bow/crossbow/gun. The passiv talents suck... I want to click the right things to get the right target down... I want a mechanic

And there is one other thing that's really annoying. When the pet dies then the Ranger gets this dbuff... I like the idea... but when somebody hits my dog I would first of all be really angry before i'm starting to mourn...

 

My Suggestions...

Give the Ranger-Class more supporting skills and a better mechanic.

perhaps more/better shots like a "lower-DT-shot "or a "hammershot" (stun/knock out) whatever just to make the ranger more usable and not standing somewhere alone in the woods and shoot.

And another thing is the dbuff (when pet dies) there should be a time (probably 3-5 seconds) where the ranger gets really angry (perhaps +might, +accuracy for that time) and then after the time he gets the dbuff (would make the game more reality like xDxDxD)

perhaps there is a way to make 2 different rangers one who focus on the pet-talents and the other focus on his shots...

 

I want to know/read/hear the thoughts of other players about it... i don't want the ranger to get an OP-class... i just want the ranger to get more mechanic in his playstyle...

 

just for discussion...

please do not pick on me

I really don't agree that rangers are useless, though I think they are kinda limited in their good build options and if pets are affected by athletics/fatigue they really shouldn't be.

Rangers are really fantastic archers (with a +15 ranged accuracy bonus, loads of really sound ranged talents). Companions just are not durable enough later in the game for higher difficulties right now imo, though the use of the pet is as a second line blocker rather than a frontline fighter. The ranger has one of the best active talents in the game in the form of binding roots... keep the toughest enemy in a group stuck for 30 seconds with 5 uses per rest, and the ranged bonus makes them really good scroll/spellsfromitems users.

What I'd like to see is the companion talents *all* adding some durability to the companion and the companion's unique abilities scaling with level so you have a meaningful choice between boosting your companion and increasing your archery and whatever else.

As far as talent additions go, I'd really like something like

Vampiric Bond - Timed duration, X/day. The Ranger and Companion heal each other (as with a Draining effect) when they deal damage.

Bonded Grief would be fine if the pet was a bit more durable and the ranger had meaningful ways to preserve their pet.

 

[Blovski]

^

Read it on the wiki, which might be out of date.

Here

 

[Phoynix]

Who knows(someone from beta would)... maybe they are supposed to get +15... and tis a bug they dont.

^

Read it on the wiki, which might be out of date.

Here

 

[Failion]

I think its funny initially people were vocal about WANTING the games combat to be afk-autoish like baldurs gate. But now they got taste of using abilities and spells they see ranger class as being too boring compared to other classes.

[Luckmann]

I think its funny initially people were vocal about WANTING the games combat to be afk-autoish like baldurs gate. But now they got taste of using abilities and spells they see ranger class as being too boring compared to other classes.

[Jimmysdabestcop]

The Rogue will out Range and absolutelty out melee a Ranger in damage. The Rogue Ranged or Melee will almost always land a crit and a sneak attack. Melee you can give the Rogue the Pike that makes enemies go prone when crit landed. Which just causes a vicious circle. Once prone the Rogue get autoatic sneak attack which is going to crit.

 

And even ranged any enemy that has any disable active or is just flanked and the Rogue gets automatic sneak attack and you guessed it will probably crit.

 

I honestly love the pet/companion idea. It just is shame it has to be managed so much. Give my character a bird that stays on his shoulder and only plucks eyes out in melee distance. The NPC's wolf is awful.

 

So chances are if you roll your own ranger the pet will be slightly better and slightly less managing required. But I don't want to even bother trying.

[Lightzy]

The Rogue will out Range and absolutelty out melee a Ranger in damage. The Rogue Ranged or Melee will almost always land a crit and a sneak attack. Melee you can give the Rogue the Pike that makes enemies go prone when crit landed. Which just causes a vicious circle. Once prone the Rogue get autoatic sneak attack which is going to crit.

 

And even ranged any enemy that has any disable active or is just flanked and the Rogue gets automatic sneak attack and you guessed it will probably crit.

 

I honestly love the pet/companion idea. It just is shame it has to be managed so much. Give my character a bird that stays on his shoulder and only plucks eyes out in melee distance. The NPC's wolf is awful.

 

So chances are if you roll your own ranger the pet will be slightly better and slightly less managing required. But I don't want to even bother trying.

 

QFT

 

Rogue is better ranger than ranger. Ranger is just crap, which sucks, because my favorite kind of character is the ranger

[luzarius]

Ranger is one of the best classes for Path of the Damned, Trial of Iron playing blind.  I kid you not. I'm currently doing POTD on TOI and dominating everything in my path. Check out my ranger build - http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78315-ranger-build-path-of-the-damned-trial-of-iron-81-dmg-crit-at-level-4/ - Ranger is VERY powerful!

Edited April 23, 2015 by luzarius

[CybAnt1]

I'll reiterate - I really think all the melee classes (I include ranger there; "non spellcasters") need more activated abilities (not just passives & modals).  The ranger should have more than two. In fact, the pets should have more than 2 tricks, as well. 

 

Again, this is something I hope we see in expansions/sequels. 

Edited April 23, 2015 by CybAnt1

[b0rsuk]

I find it funny that people complain about rangers not having enough abilities, but then their poor micromanagement leads their animal companions to be knocked out. I guess this comes from having Eder as the sole "tank" in the party. With support like that, no wonder an animal can't hold for long.

Edited April 23, 2015 by b0rsuk

[Blovski]

I find it funny that people complain about rangers not having enough abilities, but then their poor micromanagement leads their animal companions to be knocked out. I guess this comes from having Eder as the sole "tank" in the party. With support like that, no wonder an animal can't hold for long.

To be fair, until you realise that Animal Companions are affected by fatigue you'll find they mysteriously have half as much durability in some battles as others. I suspect this is a lot of the root of people being frustrated with it.

[draego]

 

I find it funny that people complain about rangers not having enough abilities, but then their poor micromanagement leads their animal companions to be knocked out. I guess this comes from having Eder as the sole "tank" in the party. With support like that, no wonder an animal can't hold for long.

To be fair, until you realise that Animal Companions are affected by fatigue you'll find they mysteriously have half as much durability in some battles as others. I suspect this is a lot of the root of people being frustrated with it.

 

 

They said they would fix this issue in the upcoming patch.

[Jimmysdabestcop]

Ranger is one of the best classes for Path of the Damned, Trial of Iron playing blind.  I kid you not. I'm currently doing POTD on TOI and dominating everything in my path. Check out my ranger build - http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78315-ranger-build-path-of-the-damned-trial-of-iron-81-dmg-crit-at-level-4/ - Ranger is VERY powerful!

 

I do think you have to base everything on normal mode. That should always be the most balanced mode for the most players. Or else it wouldn't be normal

[sivasdahling]

 

Ranger is one of the best classes for Path of the Damned, Trial of Iron playing blind.  I kid you not. I'm currently doing POTD on TOI and dominating everything in my path. Check out my ranger build - http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78315-ranger-build-path-of-the-damned-trial-of-iron-81-dmg-crit-at-level-4/ - Ranger is VERY powerful!

 

I do think you have to base everything on normal mode. That should always be the most balanced mode for the most players. Or else it wouldn't be normal

 

 

The problem with basing things on normal mode is that it is easy enough that you can get by with misusing classes, or do things like Eder + everyone else with a gun, which works in normal (and hard) but is really inefficient!  

 

A ranger + their pet + ranger skills like marking will do more dps then a rogue (at least at range).  The ranger is a bit more flexible, because it can use its pet to off tank without much penalty.  I find that rangers are good against different types of enemies than rogues are.  Rogues are best at annihilating squishies, but are weaker against high DT high HP enemies.  Rangers are fabulous against high DT enemies because of marking (the highest DT to pierce in the game I've seen is a 33, or a 9 if the enemy is marked!)  

 

Rangers are an easy class to play;  I can basically set my ranger and focus my concentration on other characters. So, I don't mind the lack of skills. 

[Jimmysdabestcop]

Absolutely no way a Ranger does more damage then a Rogue in ranged combat. its impossible and doesn't come close to out meleeing a rogue. As long as its a proper rogue build they will basically crit on at least 75% of all there hits. And they should have the most hits in the party if ranged with max dex and clothes or robes.

 

And if an of the enemies are flanked or have a disable on them not only does the rogue crit but they will score a critical sneak attack. And say if you have a weapon that causes stun or prone on crits. Plus additional crit damage multipliers. No way a ranger can keep up pet or no pet.