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Absolutely no way a Ranger does more damage then a Rogue in ranged combat. its impossible and doesn't come close to out meleeing a rogue. As long as its a proper rogue build they will basically crit on at least 75% of all there hits. And they should have the most hits in the party if ranged with max dex and clothes or robes.


And if an of the enemies are flanked or have a disable on them not only does the rogue crit but they will score a critical sneak attack. And say if you have a weapon that causes stun or prone on crits. Plus additional crit damage multipliers. No way a ranger can keep up pet or no pet.



At range it is a lot closer between ranger and rogue, whose best abilities are in melee.


Using war bows a ranger with vicious aim gets +10 accuracy, +20% damage, and 0.8 fire rate, driving flight for a possible 60% damage attack to another target, a stun on hit or crit, stalkers link for +10 accuracy with you and pet on same target. This is four talent/abilities.


A rogue gets +50% from sneak, another +50% when upgraded to deathblows and dirty fighting gets 20% hit to crit. and deep wounds for a 4 raw damage DoT. This is four talent/abilities


If rogue accuracy = enemy deflection, 20 might


Rogue misses 15%, Grazes 35%, 40% hit and 10% crit (20% of 50% is 10%). Unit damage would be 0.15x0.0 + 0.35x0.50 + 0.4x1 + 0.1x1.5 = 0.65, factor in might for 0.65x(1+0.3) = 0.845


Sneak attack adds 50% 0.65 x (1+ 0.3 + 0.5) = 1.17 


Deathblows 0.65 x (1 + 0.3 + 1) = 1.495


Ranger has +20 accuracy (10 from vicious, 10 from stalker)

Ranger misses 0% Grazes 30%, hits 50%, crits 20% Unit damage would be 0.3x0.5 + 0.5x1 + 0.2x1.5 = 0.95 factor in the reduced fire rate = 0.76 factor in the +20% damage due to vicious and the might you get 0.76 x(1 + 0.2 + 0.3) = 1.14


Without sneak attacks the ranger will hit more often and harder. With sneak attacks the rogue leads slightly, with deathblows it pulls ahead.


How does one count the possible extra hit from driving flight, or the utility of stun locking one target, not to mention a disposable pet that soaks up hits, engagements and can knockdown, flank and cause damage.


I think a ranger brings more to the team than a ranged rogue,

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Good points. I've probably been to harsh on the Ranger. And I think it has to do with the NPC. The NPC's wolf is terrible and a lot of people its their first ranger and only ranger in the game. A PC Ranger is much better. I'll still take a Rogue in range combat over the Ranger cause I rather not manage the animal and I can set the Rogue up to basically always Crit. But then it comes down to personal preference.


However I've been playing with a new build. Melee Ranger Dual Spears or hatchets or mixture. Its actually pretty good because you don't have to baby sit the Ranger like you do the Rogue cause by Act 3 you can get 90+ deflection. Granted the Rogue with Tall Grass can cause never ending prone/crit attacks but it has to do it behind a front liner or flanking an enemy and can never be put on the front line. If the Ranger cant reach melee he can still switch to quaterstaff or hunting bow.


But then the Ranger has no ranger talents that really help in melee. That's a shame. The Ranger class historical is what started the dual weapon craze. I would like 1 specific ranger talent to have something to do with dual wield. Perhaps add damage multiplier ranger only.

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If you're comparing bow rangers to firearm rogues, don't forget to include -5 Accuracy penalty. A ranger can do fine with a bow, a rogue - not really.


I was using bows for both so I did not have to factor in reload speed, also wanted to keep it apples to apples.


I like vicious shot for warbows or hunting bows as the extra damage helps punch through DR and the accuracy boost is nice, plus they fire fast and average speed so a slight slowdown is not too bad. Guns are slow enough they do not need to be slowed further.


I like quick shot and the follow on accuracy boost for the slower arbalest or gun ranger but I do not fully understand the math behind the increased reload and firing rates.


I love guns for fire once then switch to another weapon. I've a Amaumau pirate rogue that starts with two hot switch pistols then draws steel and goes to work. Reloading is painfully slow.

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While we're on pets, it feels Wrong to put surplus pets in a chest at stronghold. It should be possible to release them in the stronghold where they could roam free, or even release them in the wild.


This forum doesn't have a Feature Request section, does it ? I have a few pages of notes in my notebook. I don't know where to post them.


No thanks, I already have a passel of little animats underfoot everywhere I go.

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