Ranger should get an overhaul

[Chryyso]

First of all I am sorry if this topic is in the wrong corner.

 

Second: I want to thank Obsidian for this great game.

 

Third: I love to play the ranger-class in every game.

 

Baldurs Gate

Baldurs Gate 2

Icewind Dale

IWD2...

 

I know that PoE isn't DnD.

 

I'm sorry to say that the ranger is useless in PoE. You send out your pet to annoy somebody while your ranger stands somewhere and marks the target, then one wounding shot and perhaps to stun it with your binding roots or another target or envenomed strike... and then the ranger stands there and afk-autoshot...

 

There is no combat mechanic... like the cipher or the barb or the wizard...

 

It's a great idea with the Pet-companion and that the ranger focus on range attacks but the problem is that you only have one shot (wounding-shot) and one dbuff (mark), while the other talents focus on your pet and that's a little bit poor. For a Ranger there should be more advantage if he's using his bow/crossbow/gun. The passiv talents suck... I want to click the right things to get the right target down... I want a mechanic

And there is one other thing that's really annoying. When the pet dies then the Ranger gets this dbuff... I like the idea... but when somebody hits my dog I would first of all be really angry before i'm starting to mourn...

 

My Suggestions...

Give the Ranger-Class more supporting skills and a better mechanic.

perhaps more/better shots like a "lower-DT-shot "or a "hammershot" (stun/knock out) whatever just to make the ranger more usable and not standing somewhere alone in the woods and shoot.

And another thing is the dbuff (when pet dies) there should be a time (probably 3-5 seconds) where the ranger gets really angry (perhaps +might, +accuracy for that time) and then after the time he gets the dbuff (would make the game more reality like xDxDxD)

perhaps there is a way to make 2 different rangers one who focus on the pet-talents and the other focus on his shots...

 

I want to know/read/hear the thoughts of other players about it... i don't want the ranger to get an OP-class... i just want the ranger to get more mechanic in his playstyle...

 

just for discussion...

please do not pick on me

[bronzepoem]

The pets are too easy to die under hard level

[b0rsuk]

No, the pets don't suck. Merciless Companion alone gives you 30% more damage. They deal respectable damage, and Takedown ability gives your pet up to 2 knockdowns per battle. Then you can have roots, another active ability. Pets can deal surprising damage when used as a flanker. And have you seen Stunning Arrows ? Hit an enemy engaged by your pet and they're stunned ! You don't even need a critical, a regular hit will do. It's a passive.

 

No, rangers don't have much micromanagement options. But that's an opportunity you can capitalize on. Give ranger gloves of healing or teach him/her Lore. You'll be able to cast emergency support spells and fire away for the remaining time.

[Jimmysdabestcop]

At least in DnD the Ranger gets druids spells. Ironskin Ranger could easily tank melee while dealing high DPS.

 

As i think PoE has a better animal companion idea they do tend to die quickly. Perhaps the companion should have a ranger guard function so you don't have to micro it out of the front lines constantly.

 

But i think the biggest drawback to the Ranger is that the Rogue is just a flat out better range character then the ranger. So its weird. I would assume the animal companion is suppose to make up for it.

 

Granted I only brought out ther Ranger NPC for her side quests and we all were pretty hig but that damn pet died almost every encounter. But granted I just didn't feel like managing it in combat. Already have 6 char to manage plus if there are summons. So the animal got overlooked.

[bronzepoem]

At least in DnD the Ranger gets druids spells. Ironskin Ranger could easily tank melee while dealing high DPS.

 

As i think PoE has a better animal companion idea they do tend to die quickly. Perhaps the companion should have a ranger guard function so you don't have to micro it out of the front lines constantly.

 

But i think the biggest drawback to the Ranger is that the Rogue is just a flat out better range character then the ranger. So its weird. I would assume the animal companion is suppose to make up for it.

 

Granted I only brought out ther Ranger NPC for her side quests and we all were pretty hig but that damn pet died almost every encounter. But granted I just didn't feel like managing it in combat. Already have 6 char to manage plus if there are summons. So the animal got overlooked.

Let ranger ride on pet and crash emeny，haha ，that would be funny.

[Luckmann]

Rangers are actually relatively fine now, especially compared to even the last backer beta.

That being said, if a class is going to be based around a gimmick (Ranger Pet, Druid Spiritshift) I think that the class should be largely centred around that, and I think the Ranger (and the Druid) fail in that. The pet mechanic should be just as central to the Ranger as the Wounds are to Monks or Focus is to Ciphers (nerf!), and it just doesn't feel like it is.

I think the shamanistic aspects of the Ranger (as underlined in the background, descriptions, the tie to the ranger, etc) should be mechanically supported at a much stronger level, making it possible to play a Ranger with a more spell-esque feel to it (but without Spells, in game terms), and with much stronger support for the pet.

It should be possible to build a Ranger that feels almost druidic, a ranger that is basically just an archer with a harasser companion, a ranger that sends his charging bear in to rip and tear while the ranger himself just supports (...dare I say.. WoW-esque totems? ..maybe? Don't kill me.), as well as a melee ranger that runs in with his sabre and flanks the enemy along with his friend.

[Mungri]

I'm nor really into using pets so the rangers don't appeal to me. In BG2 the Archer kit was hands down amazing, but rather OP, but still nice to use it to make one dedicated ranged character.

[Hebruixe]

I like my ranger but that "bonded grief" debuff kills some of the fun. My stupid pet dies almost every battle.

[cirdanx]

I like my ranger but that "bonded grief" debuff kills some of the fun. My stupid pet dies almost every battle.

 

I also played ranger and noticed this, pets are very very easily killed. In the end i didn´t even care about it anymore and just used it´s takedown to get rid of an enemy for a short time in fights. Ranger was a little bit...underwhelming.

[Luckmann]

I'm nor really into using pets so the rangers don't appeal to me. In BG2 the Archer kit was hands down amazing, but rather OP, but still nice to use it to make one dedicated ranged character.

 

I would like to see a range of ranged-focused Abilities and Talents added to Fighters, but if you want an Archer, Rogues actually make amazing ones. I wouldn't mind a little more "ranger flavour" to it, but if it's the archery itself you're after, but hate having a pet, rogues can be great. I would argue that as long as the whole Party Scouting/No Combat Stealth-thing isn't fixed, rogues are much better with ranged weapons than with melee ones.

 

Especially with the way tanking works ("all too well", one might say), favouring tanks and ranged DPS and nothing else.

 

It should also be noted that rangers, in so far melee builds can be considered good, can actually make really good melee-ers. A lot of the wordings seek to pigeon-hole rangers into being conceptually ranged, but they make surprisingly competent melee combatants, including sword-and-board. Synergizes well with the pet for stacking bonuses on attacking the same target.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Luckmann

[Atheosis]

Yeah I have agree that Ranger is a bit rubbish right now.  Overall class balance is pretty bad if we're being honest.

[DocDoomII]

Agree. Some utility arrows disguised as abilities would be cool.

Like fire arrows, poison arrows, **** like that.

I want to feel like Hawkeye.

[Luckmann]

Agree. Some utility arrows disguised as abilities would be cool.

Like fire arrows, poison arrows, **** like that.

I want to feel like Hawkeye.

 

I would really hate this, because it would ruin any chance of ever getting ammunition into the game.

 

And I really, really, really want ammunition in the game.

 

 

magic bullets!

 

 

Also, Special-Arrows-as-Abilities would be Ranger only, discounting the fact that the modular approach to classes has given unprecedented freedom. It would forever deny Rogues and other classes that may want to be archers (or that wants to get more archer-supporting Abilities; Fighters, for example) these special arrows.

 

And if you introduce the Abilities as Talents.. well.. we're already pretty Talent-starved. Taking a Talent just so you can use just Fire Arrows twice per day (or whatever) would be annoying as hell. Stunning Arrows, Frost Bullets, Exploding Bolts.. no, ammunition, definitely ammunition.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Luckmann

[DocDoomII]

Meh, having all those kind of ammunition gets annoying.

Though with an unlimited stash it could be bearable.

[Exyll]

Bear is your best  chance at having the pet survive any encounter, couple with a priest behind the font lines with sacred ground running...dont see the problem

I like ranger because I dont have to pause the game every 5 seconds for him in combat, with that said if they're going to be the 'fire and forget' class, should maybe increase their fire rate

Edited April 15, 2015 by Exyll

[Isi1dur]

Ranger class in old IE games was far superior to what we currently have here, which is rather disappointing considering that i love said class.

[draego]

I like the ranger class for the most part. The one real bug is that the animal companion does not use the ranger's athletics to calculate fatigue so the animal presumably with only 0 athletics always gets minor or major fatigue quickly and if you are not paying attention they get nerfed quickly. You also don't really notice it until you look at the character sheet for the animal. I haven't made a hard run yet but on normal my animal rarely dies (maybe 5 times and i am level 9) and i frequently am able to get behind the line and take out enemy casters and range characters and flank front-line enemies. I know everyone says the rogue is better at dps and i don't doubt it but my ranger actually has the most kills and does the most damage in my party so they cant be that bad or useless. I also find the pet to be very micro management heavy. If you are just sending your animal into the fight blindly and just forgetting about him the ye i can see him dying alot but the pet to me is the ranger micro management part. 

Edited April 15, 2015 by jnb0364

[Jayngo]

So I've always played a Ranger class as well in all IE games. And I followed suit in PoE.

 

I'll have to check again-but last time I looked, my Ranger had the most kills of the party-by a lot. So the DPS of my Ranger was doing what it was supposed too, coupled with my Companion Wolf. That knockdown ability the Companion gets is huge. Plus, there are many abilities you can take to synergize the Ranger and Companion.

 

I did miss having ammo in this game. No special arrows to find in the world made me sad. If they did not have any arrows/ammo, they should have added more abilities for special arrows. And I don't mean the Envenom ability you can use 3 per rest. I mean good ol' Poison Arrows, Arrow +1, etc.

 

Also, I can't remember-does the Ranger in PoE have a Charm Animal ability? I don't remember seeing that either.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

A lot of classes need an overhaul to be honest. For a game striving for balance, PoE failed pretty badly at it with the release version.

 

As to Rangers...I think the problem is that they've split between two gimmicks, archery(I haven't used a Ranger with an implement or gun) and the companion, when it should have just been one. I believe that ranged abilities should be put into the general talent pool and that the class abilities should be focused solely on the companion and teamwork with the companion(the selling point of the class). IMO a melee ranger who flanks with the companion is a cool idea, but the current mechanics don't support it as well as they could.

 

And Sagani's fox is awful. Needs a CON and Deflection boost.

[Luckmann]

A lot of classes need an overhaul to be honest. For a game striving for balance, PoE failed pretty badly at it with the release version.

 

As to Rangers...I think the problem is that they've split between two gimmicks, archery(I haven't used a Ranger with an implement or gun) and the companion, when it should have just been one. I believe that ranged abilities should be put into the general talent pool and that the class abilities should be focused solely on the companion and teamwork with the companion(the selling point of the class). IMO a melee ranger who flanks with the companion is a cool idea, but the current mechanics don't support it as well as they could.

 

And Sagani's fox is awful. Needs a CON and Deflection boost.

 

Small nit-pick; the Ranger doesn't have ranged combat as one of it's gimmicks. Actually, most of it's Abilities (all?) work with melee weapons as well.

 

I do agree with the sentiment that if a class has a gimmick that is supposed to be part of it's core concept (so, in essence, a major ability or class feature that is considered integral to the class) then the class should be focused upon that, and gameplay revolve around that in some major capacity. Otherwise, it's just going to be "something something plus".

 

In essence, the Ranger is a combatant like the Fighter or the Rogue... plus the pet. And with the pet as a tacked-on feature, not the focus of the class, it will be judged in relation to those other classes, the pet notwithstanding. It becomes very hard to balance and the class becomes unfocused, the choices unintuitive.

[b0rsuk]

I would still appreciate some more variety in pets. They work for flanking and for tanking, but I would enjoy a glass cannon pet like a Wurm, with ranged attack. It would need a different build, where perhaps the ranger is doing the tanking and the pet is the damage dealer of the two.

 

Managing ammo was a micromanagement chore for the most part, and camping supplies replace that. But a good point about special ammo. Very expensive special ammo for special occasions would be neat. Slowing arrows, dispel magic arrows, etc.

Edited April 15, 2015 by b0rsuk

[Chryyso]

No, the pets don't suck. Merciless Companion alone gives you 30% more damage. They deal respectable damage, and Takedown ability gives your pet up to 2 knockdowns per battle. Then you can have roots, another active ability. Pets can deal surprising damage when used as a flanker. And have you seen Stunning Arrows ? Hit an enemy engaged by your pet and they're stunned ! You don't even need a critical, a regular hit will do. It's a passive.

 

No, rangers don't have much micromanagement options. But that's an opportunity you can capitalize on. Give ranger gloves of healing or teach him/her Lore. You'll be able to cast emergency support spells and fire away for the remaining time.

 

 

I know that all and that's why i wrote about the passive talents... Micromanagement is a must have in this sort of games

[b0rsuk]

You guys are such a tease ! I'm already in my second playthrough, I can't manage 3rd one now for DPS ranger.

 

Think about it:

Level1: Swift Aim

Level2: Swift and Steady

 

It might take 2 levels instead of one, but you're getting 50% rate of fire increase for the price of 2 accuracy. That's... good ?

 

Now forget about Swift Aim. Does any other class has such an opportunity to stack accuracy talents and abilities ? I thought accuracy was KING in this game ?

* regular weapon training: +6 accuracy (Available to everyone)

*  Stalker's Link: +15 accuracy. +15!!!!!

* Vicious Aim: +10 accuracy.

* Marksman: +5 accuracy (available to everyone)

* Defensive Shooting: +20 accuracy. WAT. I really don't like this skill conceptually, but hey, +20 is +20. Is there a melee shooting penalty ? If this merely compensates for penalty, I could understand.

 

So if you exclude Defensive Shooting I'm unsure about, you can easily have +36 accuracy bonus. +41 for elves with Distant Advantage. +51 accuracy for a Boreal Dwarf shooting a dragon, spider, ogre etc. Dead on!

 

Now you can use spells, paladin Zealous Focus aura, potion of Eldritch Aim, scroll of Valor. There are ranged weapons which stun or knock down on crit.

-----------------

I'm also going to research melee rangers. If stuff like Wounding Shot works with melee weapons, you could do something like this:

 

1. Engage an enemy with Ranger and his pet. The target is now flanked.

2. Takedown (from pet)

3. The pet is getting +30% damage from Merciless Companion

4. Wounding Shot

5. The pet is now getting +50% damage from Predator's Sense.

 

And if you happen to have a weapon that deals extra damage to prone targets, +20% damage for ranger.

Edited April 15, 2015 by b0rsuk

[sucinum]

I'd like to give the pet an item, maybe a single itemslot for a ring or necklace. That would allow to customize it a bit and also strenghten, but not too much. I think the fox of Sagani is a bit on the weak side, even if you have a Priest.

[Chryyso]

You guys are such a tease ! I'm already in my second playthrough, I can't manage 3rd one now for DPS ranger.

 

I never played the whole game through... the reason... everytime i'm getting to act 3 with my ranger ... I'm thinking and thinking... reached level 11... superior... perfect... but then it comes through my mind... that's not a ranger... that's a f****** beastmaster... i don't want to play a beastmaster... so i delete all my savegames and start with a cipher... after i'm getting to caed nua ... there it comes... that's not my class... delete all of my savegames and start a new game with a ranger... and so it goes on... since the release

 

I don't want to play a beastmaster, i want to play as a ranger... a simple sharpshooter with more than 3 active skills... there's nothing to say about the dps or something else... i'm writing about combat mechanics... it just makes me mad that he's/she's nothing more than a afk-autoshooter... and a beastmaster is not a sharpshooter...