Hard mode is too easy (part 2)

[najanaja73]

Well just powergame it then. Triple crown solo, or solo just on hard level if you are a ****.

[Justinian]

Did you not find the game becoming easier and easier as it progresses? That's the main issue here - the reverse difficulty.

[Starwars]

Adding my voice to the "Hard is too easy" choir as well. And I'm somewhat surprised by this because I am in *no* way an IE game expert. There are people who are way better at it than me. And yet I had very little trouble completing PoE on Hard.

 

I found a lot of the content in the mid-game (Defiance Bay) to be too easy, not just the end of the game. It does depend on where you go first obviously (I imagine going off to fight Drakes at a lower level would be quite hard for example) but... while I'm fine with the *hardest* fights being out of the way, I still want to be challenged on things closer to the main path.

 

Personally, I would very much like to see:

 

A) making it harder to the hit the level cap. I haven't looked at how the XP is doled out in detail but I found it quite easy to get to a point where I felt overleveled. Bounties seem to be one point where there's a lot of XP involved from what people say, and maybe bring down XP for trap-disarms, opening locks and so forth also.

 

B) Making the crit path, and the content "surrounding it" harder. I guess this is a hard one. I admit that I was in the "no level scaling!" camp before but I must admit that I probably wouldn't mind it for the critical path in PoE, at least for areas where it would make sense for the enemies to be really strong (like the ending areas for example, it makes a certain in-game sense that they'd be strong).

 

C) And this is a big one I feel. The top levels feel really wild balancing-wise. I honestly wouldn't mind immunities (or near-immunities at least) being introduced at some point in the leveling scheme because once you get the truly powerful spells in the game, all manner of balance sorta gets thrown out the window. I think if future expansions/games will push the level cap further, then the higher level spells and such will really need to be looked over. 

There are encounters where certain "win" spells are harder to land but even on those, it's typically not hard enough to keep your party alive until you manage to land that one spell that just completely wins the battle for you

Even the bounties (which are the hardest battles in the game, apart from one particular one) are very... swingy in that sense. You can come prepared to them (because you have the advantage, you know when and where they will occur) and then it's just a matter of landing a spell or two of those extremely powerful ones that will just... win it for you. Sometimes, you may need to fiddle a bit with a Priest's buffs/protection spells but it's typically very...  I dunno, simple?

 

I would like my mind to go like this for Hard difficulty: "Oh damn, this encounter is not gonna end well... I'm gonna freaking need to unload every goddamn buff I have and bring the enemy defense down as well OH GOD WHAT IS HAPPENING UNLEASH EVERYTHING!" you know? Instead, it's more like "well, it's *this* type of enemy, I'll put up a protection against paralyzation/charm (whatever the case may be), maybe some deflection buff and then I'll unload that petrification/slumber/whatever spell and the battle will be won".

 

Yeah... I guess that's that, the game doesn't push me enough to really try out this wonderful toolbox that it offers (I love all the abilities and spells). My strategy will work almost every time, whatever the encounter with minor tweaks.

 

That was kinda why the Shades were nice at the start of the game, they mess with your tactics. Now, if every enemy had an ability like that (teleporting), it'd obviously feel cheap. But I hope that for the expansion (because this will be out of scope for patches I think) there'll be more inventive encounter design, and more enemies that can really screw with you, and more advanced AI. Make us have to break out of comfort zones.

[Mazisky]

This is the most viewed thread, devs should look at it and balance the game.

 

Btw, i respect who says game is hard, i remember one thread of a guy saying even easy was too hard cause he wanted to play storydriven.

 

This guy opinion, even if can sounds funny, must be respected.

 

So I think there is a way to satisfy all the audience:

 

Make easiest difficulties almost GODMODE where u can't really die and at the same time make harder difficulties ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to beat.

 

Everybody happy, SO SIMPLE

[View619]

This is the most viewed thread, devs should look at it and balance the game.

 

Btw, i respect who says game is hard, i remember one thread of a guy saying even easy was too hard cause he wanted to play storydriven.

 

This guy opinion, even if can sounds funny, must be respected.

 

So I think there is a way to satisfy all the audience:

 

Make easiest difficulties almost GODMODE where u can't really die and at the same time make harder difficulties ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to beat.

 

Everybody happy, SO SIMPLE

 

I'm pretty sure that the original thread got their attention. Just a matter of patience now, imo.

Edited April 13, 2015 by View619

[Atheosis]

This is the most viewed thread, devs should look at it and balance the game.

 

Btw, i respect who says game is hard, i remember one thread of a guy saying even easy was too hard cause he wanted to play storydriven.

 

This guy opinion, even if can sounds funny, must be respected.

 

So I think there is a way to satisfy all the audience:

 

Make easiest difficulties almost GODMODE where u can't really die and at the same time make harder difficulties ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to beat.

 

Everybody happy, SO SIMPLE

 

Yeah that's not how that works.  No matter what they do there is no way they are going to make everyone happy.

[oaktownbrown]

Adding my voice to those asking for hard mode to be more difficult. I don't think it is mostly bc of the bounties bc I just did my first one and haven't turned it in yet. I'm returning to DB after a brief detour for the first five levels of the Endless Paths (when i picked up my first bounties). Most encounters in DB (done before any of the endless paths or any bounties) are too easy and even the hard ones could be more challenging. I don't level up so I"m level 4 now but some companions are at level 5.  I guess I should have stayed at level 3 for DB.

 

I don't mind doing that but would like enemies that require more planning and thought. Better AI (ala SCS) would help. I don't know how much time that would take. I also like the suggestion of having certain debuffs/status effects not work on all enemies. Maybe adding in different types of enemies to some of the encounters would help.

 

I don't like the idea of making the critical path harder. I think ppl should be able to play the critical path on a difficulty that is enjoyable for them without doing the side quests. I think they should make the side quests harder. That way, if someone thought they were too hard, they could still complete the game.

 

It seems like you level up too quickly. It's like they didn't adjust the numbers after deciding to add in XP for traps and the bestiary. I'm pretty sure that they did but the XP is very off IMO. Maybe they shouldn't give much XP for side quests. Maybe you could get other rewards for side quests so you don't overlevel so quickly if you do the side quests (loot but can't be that good or else "side" quests bc somewhat mandatory; more story endings, additional quests, deeper lore info, different resolutions in other quests or different speech options that are more than flavor).

 

I'm pretty flexible about how they go about addressing this issue. I just hope that they do.

 

Edit to add: I am playing with the recruitable companions so my party is not min maxed.

Edited April 14, 2015 by oaktownbrown

[Trimitri]

Hi , another voice, same feeling;

 

It is not challenging and start to really break the immersion for me.....

 

To make it short I'm playing my very first playthrought in PoTD with 5 ingame NPC (+rogue DW) and since Act 2 difficulty level has dropped a lot 

Best encounters are so far shades/phantoms which can teleport to your weakest party members. Casters with charm spells are  quite difficult but overall the AI is not aggresive enough, ennemies should attack you at sight. Another issue is that NPC / AI pathfinding is horrible, ennemies are sometimes sitting idle for no reason ....

 

Also, I am already swimming in gold. We can pick too many items without weight penalities and sell them to millionaire shopkeepers.

(reading the forum, I think I will avoid bounties and Caed Nua until the very end to slow down a bit the leveling).

 

Don't get me wrong I really enjoy the game but by fixing Hard/PoTD difficulties it could be so much better.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Trimitri

[Elgyn]

Would it be possible to tie XP penalties to difficulty modes? Say Hard mode is -25% XP, POTD is -50% (or whatever numbers you want.).

It wouldn't solve all problems but it seems like that would be a quick and easy fix for how easy it is to over-level the games encounters at the moment.

[Matt516]

Would it be possible to tie XP penalties to difficulty modes? Say Hard mode is -25% XP, POTD is -50% (or whatever numbers you want.).

 

It wouldn't solve all problems but it seems like that would be a quick and easy fix for how easy it is to over-level the games encounters at the moment.

 

There's a multiplier in the "XP for x level" function that you can modify with a hex editor if you should so desire to get this effect. There's a thread floating around somewhere on how to do this, but I couldn't find it. Maybe someone else knows where it is?

 

After that, just work out how you need to change the multiplier for the desired effect - multiply it by 1.333 to get 25% less effective XP, multiply it by 1.5 to get 33% less effective XP, multiply it by 2 to get 50% less effective XP, etc...

Edited April 14, 2015 by Matt516

[Psychevore]

Even PotD gets quite easy at times if you know what you're doing. And I'm not even using a custom party.

 

I'm near the end though, hope I get an epic battle

[Matt516]

Even PotD gets quite easy at times if you know what you're doing. And I'm not even using a custom party.

 

I'm near the end though, hope I get an epic battle

 

I've heard both the final fight in the story and the final fight in Od Nua are both quite epic. Haven't gotten there yet, myself - but I've heard good things.

[Baron Bawookles]

 I'm in Act 2, I'm at level 8, playing "Hard" and just burnt out on the game. Nothing is a challenge at all. I guess I will have to start over and play PotD but it's sad that this game is so easy. I'm hardly a power gamer either.

[Archaven]

It's part 2 already? That's great. I really HOPE Obsidian can notice this thread. I'm kinda struggling on moving on because Hard is really too easy. Playing another difficulty with same AI but increased stats doesn't make the game harder. It needs smarter enemy AI and a good mixture of different enemy tactics and making it RANDOM. Let's say that this group of encounter has 5 different sets of tactics and when you meet them you will not know which tactics the will use. So players have to adapt and be more prepared before approaching this group of enemy, for example.

[Zwiebelchen]

Did you not find the game becoming easier and easier as it progresses? That's the main issue here - the reverse difficulty.

 

It is. In PotD, this issue is probably most noticable:

Until you reach Defiance Bay, the game is punishingly hard (that's a good thing... it's what I wanted PotD to be!) and then it pretty much becomes a walk in the park.

 

But this has all to do with some OP items and classes and spells and some general undertuned encounters (human parties are way too weak). Nothing that can't be fixed.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Justinian]

Does patch 1.05 make the game better balanced in terms of difficulty?

[View619]

The only major difficulty changes would be xp-related and some fine tuning/re-positioning of items. Hard feels the same for me.

Just go POTD, try different build combinations until the AI is improved further or some amazing modder makes SCS for POE.

Edited May 9, 2015 by View619

[Nefarious13]

I too found the Hard lvl way too easy. The first part of the game was perfect. I then made the mistake of doing the Dungeon lvls early on now the main quest has been a joke. I go from battle to battle just clicking the men to attack and waiting for the fight to end. I'm at a point where I think I have to stop until it's fixed. It's an amazing game that needs some tweaking. Looking forward to a major overhaul of the difficulty lvls.

[Sarnind]

no game is again too easy

[ComplyOrDie]

I'm just holding out for a mod or some actual difficulty improvements. Doesn't look like it's even been acknowledged so far which is a real shame considering the huge threads on the issue. 

[Zwiebelchen]

I too found the Hard lvl way too easy. The first part of the game was perfect. I then made the mistake of doing the Dungeon lvls early on now the main quest has been a joke. I go from battle to battle just clicking the men to attack and waiting for the fight to end. I'm at a point where I think I have to stop until it's fixed. It's an amazing game that needs some tweaking. Looking forward to a major overhaul of the difficulty lvls.

 

I think there should be another game mode between hard and path of the damned, that implements the stat increase of PotD, but at the creature selection of hard.

 

Currently, the gap between 'hard' and 'path of the damned' is absurd.

[Matt516]

 

I too found the Hard lvl way too easy. The first part of the game was perfect. I then made the mistake of doing the Dungeon lvls early on now the main quest has been a joke. I go from battle to battle just clicking the men to attack and waiting for the fight to end. I'm at a point where I think I have to stop until it's fixed. It's an amazing game that needs some tweaking. Looking forward to a major overhaul of the difficulty lvls.

 

I think there should be another game mode between hard and path of the damned, that implements the stat increase of PotD, but at the creature selection of hard.

 

Currently, the gap between 'hard' and 'path of the damned' is absurd.

 

 

Surely it'd be much better to have the creature selection of PotD with the stats of Hard? Since PotD is the only difficulty that changes stats, and it kinda screws up a lot of the balance of the game?

[ruzen]

If only somehow AI gets some intelligence and use some tactics, game could be balanced. But at this point AIs level of intelligence is cant pass backgammon tactics.

[Zwiebelchen]

 

 

I too found the Hard lvl way too easy. The first part of the game was perfect. I then made the mistake of doing the Dungeon lvls early on now the main quest has been a joke. I go from battle to battle just clicking the men to attack and waiting for the fight to end. I'm at a point where I think I have to stop until it's fixed. It's an amazing game that needs some tweaking. Looking forward to a major overhaul of the difficulty lvls.

 

I think there should be another game mode between hard and path of the damned, that implements the stat increase of PotD, but at the creature selection of hard.

 

Currently, the gap between 'hard' and 'path of the damned' is absurd.

 

 

Surely it'd be much better to have the creature selection of PotD with the stats of Hard? Since PotD is the only difficulty that changes stats, and it kinda screws up a lot of the balance of the game?

 

 

I've never felt like the increase of stats in PotD screwed up balance. In fact, I felt this actually balanced the game out better (deflection stacking won't make tanks invulnerable anymore and debuffs actually matter).

What really bugged me about PotD was the ridicolous masses of enemies in every encounter. It's just insane to battle 10 Xaurips, 3 Xaurip priests, a named boss and 4 wyrms at the same time. Especially when ALL the priests constantly heal each other.

 

PoE was not designed around large-scale battles, due to the narrow pathways and intense spell effects. Hard mode imho hits the sweet spot about numbers, while PotD hits the sweet spot of combat stats. I'd rather combine the two strengths of the settings into one difficulty, instead of combining the two things that sucked about both difficulties.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Slapstick87]

I only really want one thing for difficulty adjustment. An AI that properly evaluates if an disengagement attack is worth it to run past and attack a squishy caster. That would turn the tables a lot in terms of difficulty. If the AI had proper badass prioritization of targets and selective methods for dealing with said target (such as paralyze caster with low fort save, all switch to ranged and blast paralyzed wizard with shotguns, switch back to normal weapons, etc.) - I would be more than thrilled.