Council of Stars- no Eothas?

[Toyic]

Hey guys, first playthrough, so don't do anything *too* spoilery, if you don't mind, I've just reached the quest Council of Stars, immediately after the dyrwood explosion after *SPOILER* Duc's death.

 

I'm playing as a cleri...erm, prist of Eothas, who still devoutly believes in his god. (and is even a Godlike, so that's cool)

 

I'm at the part where you need to pray to the Gods in order to jump in a hole to fetch Thaos.

 

 

I've got a few questions at this point, and hope you guys can help me out.

Eothas is not one of the choices to pray to, unfortunately, in the room behind the plant sisters.

I'm fairly annoyed at the fact that there is no spot or possibility of praying to my God Eothas. The temple is supposedly very old, and would predate the war with Waidwen, so why is there no spot for my God? Even if it were just a shrine that didn't react when you approached it, that would be nice.

 

My question would be, is it possible for me to jump (or at least to attempt to jump?) into the hole without receiving divine favor? It wouldn't be ideal, but even if I just died it would be a fitting end for the devout follower of Eothas, who has constantly tagged along with his buddy and fellow worshiper Eder spreading goodwill throughout the land. The priest wouldn't pray to any of the other gods but his own, stubbornly clinging to his faith.

[MasterPrudent]

Eothas is silent and has been since the death of St Waidwen. It's one of the key reasons that Eder is tortured over his role in the war. If I recall correctly there is actually a shrine that you can't interact with that sits near Eothas' place in the constellations. Remember that there are a number of Gods you can't pray to, including Magran and Wael.

 

You can jump into the pit without receiving a God's blessing.

[SeferZohar]

You can jump into the hole without divine help, yes, and there are no surprises as to what happens if you do. Bear in mind though that there are only 4 gods who offer you quests in Council of Stars, so most priests will be out of luck anyway (at least without foreknowledge of which gods are allied to which others there).

 

Why there's no shrine to Eothas at Teir Evron is a good question. It's been asked a couple of times before on this forum and I don't think there's a definitive in-game answer. It's possible the altar was simply removed after the events of the Godhammer -- people know Woedica's still around, but Eothas not so much.

 

Try speaking to the gods in any case and see how you like them. I think it'd be perfectly in character for a priest of Eothas to work for Hylea in particular, given her concerns and objectives.

 

edit:

 

If I recall correctly there is actually a shrine that you can't interact with that sits near Eothas' place in the constellations.

 

This might also be right, I think I do remember seeing that too now. Would have to check again.

 

edit 2:

 

Nope, in fact Eothas's symbol isn't even there. Have a look: http://s27.postimg.org/564qroer5/teir_evron.png - only 10 symbols are present, from left to right Galawain, Abydon, Magran, Hylea, Woedica, Berath, Skaen, Rymrgand, Ondra, and Wael.

Edited April 7, 2015 by SeferZohar

[White Phoenix]

I was thinking about Eothas too (playing Moon Godlike and his priest). It was strange there wasn't his symbol even if we cannot talk with him (we have Woedika and Wael we cannot speak to, and other gods are in groups and they can speak to us when talking with 'main deity'). But if he was there, I think he would stay with Hylea or Berath in group (more probably with Hylea).

 

I think it means Eothas is not in the Beyond (all gods are there) or he was removed from pantheon, maybe they banished him when he returned after Waidwen's death or he left them or he is really dead? I was expected that in Sun in Shadow (lol such location's name perfectly fits Eothas condition) he'll probably show up (like Wael) in some enigmatic way. But because there is no sign of him it could mean he is not interested in mortal world anymore or maybe have no power to act or speak.

Edited April 7, 2015 by White Phoenix

[SeferZohar]

The simplest and, in my view, most likely option based on the information that we have from the end of the game is that

 

he really did manifest as Waidwen in an attempt to stop Woedica and Magran's conspiracy, and was destroyed or at least temporarily put out of action by the Godhammer. The gods are only Engwithan constructs after all, so it's not implausible for one to be destroyed, especially when it's at the hands of another.

 

 

Based on the specific options the gods present for thwarting Woedica's plan, I think it'd be very unlikely that Eothas would side with Berath. Hylea (since Eothas is god of birth) or Galawain (since he's god of rebirth) seem his most likely choices, and Hylea especially.

 

edit (again!):

 

On reflection I can see why you might argue that Eothas would side with Berath. I don't interpret Eothas's concern for rebirth in that literal sense, though, since that's very much Berath's domain -- my understanding is he's god of rebirth in the sense of redemption, second chances, and so on, being "reborn" while you're still alive rather than the actual process of going through the cycle.

Edited April 7, 2015 by SeferZohar

[Khrysophylax]

Zohar makes an excellent point, and his post is probably as close as we can get to a sort of fan-concensus. Considering that Eothas hasn't been answering his own faithful for 15 years, and that his symbol isn't even present in Teir Evron while Woedica's is, it seems likely that he was indeed fully destroyed by the Godhammer bomb.

Which makes sense, when you get a little further into the game and find out some interesting truths about the pantheon.

 

It's just a real shame, though, because he's by far my favorite of the Eoran deities.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Khrysophylax

[SeferZohar]

Yep, and I'd also add that

 

Eothas's death and Thaos being eliminated handily sets up a return of the Iovaran 'heresy' in the near future. This is the first time since the gods were created thousands of years ago that any of them has died -- and when the implications that they actually can die start to sink in, with no Thaos around to prevent people from breaking with the Engwithan-created religion, a lot of people are going to start asking questions...

 

[Baleros]

Eothas is dead!  I can't help but think that an ending option "to the series" will be for your benevolent aligned character to use essence to take the place of the dead Eothas.  Or, conversely somehow destroy all the "Gods".

[RedCloudFuneral]

I just registered as I was going to make a topic on this after not seeing it brought up, I guess it makes more sense for me to just reply here.

 

I think this brings apart a very interesting question as to the nature of Eothas. I don't recall any evidence pointing toward the fact of him being one of the created gods of the Engwithans. Nor do I recall the other gods bringing him up(however I had neither Eder nor Durance with me during the Twin Elms section of the game and may have missed out on some dialog.) This brings upon the question whether he may have actually been one of the older gods Thaos refrenced(which would further push him into the catagory of a villian only focusing on the evil gods of past groups) or perhaps even more interesting if he was the only real god in the game's universe. What an interesting plot point that could be that man destroys the real god when he shows up to appease the fake ones. It might even make some sense as for his manifestation of Waidwen, he comes back to the world for whatever reason and sees imposter gods everywhere & decides to put a stop to them. Or another option could be that he was also man-made but created later than the pantheon of the Engwithans which adds another perspective that said pantheon was becomming outdated & replaced. If you read through the theology in game there are some light ties of the pantheon relating to Pagan culture and Eothas is the closest to the Monothiestic god of the New Testament.

 

I'm going to make a stretch here and say that some further content may revolve around resurrecting Eothas as a replacement to the 'man made' pantheon; with the forge God(Abydon) supporting the change as an evolution over the old system. Seeing as the plot centers around thought provoking theological questions this could bring in the other major debate in religion; the advantages of monotheistic & pantheistic faiths. The cause for Abydon being in support of the change would be to further refine the point that the Gods in question are all single-minded ideals brought to life; who will stick to their niche no questions asked. Panthiestic faiths generally center around Gods whom symbolize a single idea perfected, whilst monothiestic faiths generally have a single god whom may act contradictory at times.

[Khrysophylax]

I, too, was a bit puzzled that none of the other gods even mentioned Eothas in Teir Evron. Seems a bit suspicious.

But then again, Magran's behavior when you interact with her via Galawain is pretty shifty and duplicitous throughout. She should definitely be the next deity on the chopping block, IMO.

[Cktulica]

unless you don't mind end game spoilers:

 

 

eothas was one of the gods. he broke the rules by manifesting and thus magran gave her priests the godhammer, a piece of technology capable of killing gods.

Magran then killed all the priests who knew how to build it to prevent them from making more to kill the other gods, only durance survived(though his soul was damaged).

 

 

 

[Kingdinosaur]

Yep, and I'd also add that

 

Eothas's death and Thaos being eliminated handily sets up a return of the Iovaran 'heresy' in the near future. This is the first time since the gods were created thousands of years ago that any of them has died -- and when the implications that they actually can die start to sink in, with no Thaos around to prevent people from breaking with the Engwithan-created religion, a lot of people are going to start asking questions...

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

In my blog, I'm thinking that if there is a sequel that's probably one of the directions it'll go.  Though if the sequel goes the empire route, the heresy could actually be the bad guys. 

 

Of course Eothas could have reincarnated and forgotten that he was a god as well.  That would also explain why his symbol is missing as he doesn't know he can manifest power anymore.

 

 

[White Phoenix]

 

Yep, and I'd also add that

 

Eothas's death and Thaos being eliminated handily sets up a return of the Iovaran 'heresy' in the near future. This is the first time since the gods were created thousands of years ago that any of them has died -- and when the implications that they actually can die start to sink in, with no Thaos around to prevent people from breaking with the Engwithan-created religion, a lot of people are going to start asking questions...

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

In my blog, I'm thinking that if there is a sequel that's probably one of the directions it'll go.  Though if the sequel goes the empire route, the heresy could actually be the bad guys. 

 

Of course Eothas could have reincarnated and forgotten that he was a god as well.  That would also explain why his symbol is missing as he doesn't know he can manifest power anymore.

 

 

Interesting point about Eothas. Even more if you take notice of that what happened with Abydon. He was slain too, but reborn in new body with limited powers as a god.

[zered]

I imagine Eothas will be reborn one way or the other.

[Luckmann]

I imagine Eothas will be reborn one way or the other.

 

One way, or.. the otter?

 

[Gorbag]

I imagine Eothas will be reborn one way or the other.

What if I told you

 

that the Watcher may turn out to be one of his reincarnations?

 

Cue Candlekeep chanters: The Looooord of Renewal shall peeeeeriiiiish...

[WebShaman]

It has been hinted at that Eothas Avatar (Waiden) was destroyed (Godhammer bomb) and therefore weakened, and his portfolio was absorbed by Magran and the others.  This is all part of the "conspiracy" thing.

 

Meaning that Eothas is dead and won't be coming back.

 

As for anyone believing anything other than the Gods Are Real - right.  Who are they going to believe, real Priests that can work real wonders granted from their respective Gods, or some crazy person that insists that the Gods are not real, or that they are "fake"?

 

There is no proof.  None.

 

It is like Mulder and Scully from The X-Files - the truth is out there, but obtaining evidence...hehe.  Nope.

 

But in the case of PoE, one actually witnesses the power of the Gods!

 

As for Thaos...he is not dead!

 

At least...he is not PERMANENTLY dead.  One needs to remember that he gets reincarnated with all his memories, etc intact when he dies.  This is what Woedica does for him (being that He serves her).  And Woedica was not defeated (destroyed) just denied.  She still has the same power as before.

[gkathellar]

I imagine Eothas will be reborn one way or the other.

 

It does raise an interesting question - can the gods be reborn? They're artificial constructs, which suggests that the Cycle wouldn't handle them, but they're also made from soulstuff, which suggests that it would.

 

Of course, the dead animancer at the beginning of the game notes that souls often break up while moving through the Cycle. What if Eothas did exactly that, and fragments of his being have been (or will be) reborn into hundreds, thousands, or millions of children since his death? That could be an interesting sequel hook.

 

As for Thaos...he is not dead!

 

At least...he is not PERMANENTLY dead.  One needs to remember that he gets reincarnated with all his memories, etc intact when he dies.  This is what Woedica does for him (being that He serves her).  And Woedica was not defeated (destroyed) just denied.  She still has the same power as before.

 

IIRC, nop. The whole reason it was important that the Watcher kill him is because the Watcher can shred souls. Thaos done got cheese-gratered.

[Gorbag]

As for Thaos...he is not dead!

 

At least...he is not PERMANENTLY dead.  One needs to remember that he gets reincarnated with all his memories, etc intact when he dies. 

That is unless you

 

shatter his soul utterly destroying him

 

[b0rsuk]

I think Eothas is just out of action for a long time, not dead. There is a reason he is called "Scattered God", not Dead God or Destroyed God. Also, Eothas is a god of hope, and redemption. If any god could come back from the dead, it would be Eothas and Berath. The lore is very non-specific as to what actually happened to Eothas. Durance has some speculations on this, but he has some fuzzy theories on Magran as well.

 

Also, for some reason there are still priests of Eothas and you can opt to be one. The cult is still alive, so for all intents and purposes the god exists. Or do you think Eothas priests will be given choice to switch to another god in expansion/sequel ?

 

The candles in the temple are still burning.

Edited April 23, 2015 by b0rsuk

[Gorbag]

The candles in the temple are still burning.

That one's probably on Magran though   

She's a bitch like that.

[Durgarnkuld]

I'm thinking Forgotten Realms here. After the Time of Troubles Waukeen was imprisoned for a long time by a demon lord.

Couldn't Eothas be weakened from the Godhammer and kept prisoner of Magran or Woedica?

Edited April 23, 2015 by Durgarnkuld

[Blovski]

Dead god is dead. Probably.

[gkathellar]

I'm thinking Forgotten Realms here. After the Time of Troubles Waukeen was imprisoned for a long time by a demon lord.

Couldn't Eothas be weakened from the Godhammer and kept prisoner of Magran or Woedica?

We really just don't know enough about how gods work to speculate on this. Durance says they're invincible as long as they have no physical form; does that apply to god vs. god? Is god vs. god even possible? I don't think we know.

[b0rsuk]

Eothas could more easily come back once it is proven that Waidwen's Legacy doesn't start with Waidwen.

 

If Eothas was truly killed, they will have to invent a new god which fills a similar niche. There would be a gaping hole without a goody, cleric-y god.