Am I the only one who doesn't like Monks at all ?

[Guest BugsVendor]

Before anyone jumps right in my face. This is not an issue at all I don't mind monks being in the game. It is just an opinion and I wondered if anyone shares it.

 

First of all they so don't fit into the world. I know they are part of dungeons and dragons but I always pretended they are not. Cool wizards and knights and all this stuff and then you have a shirtless dudes out of karate kid. What is this?

 

They are also so not fun to play. Main reason - attacking with bare hands. In the world of magic weapons and cool armours and all this stuff. Meh.

Edited April 6, 2015 by BugsVendor

[Hurlshort]

I chose a monk on my first character, and it did feel odd.  It didn't quite fit the gameworld.  I ended up dropping that game.

 

Still, doesn't bother me that they have options.  

[eRe4s3r]

I voted "no" and agree with your view.

 

I am not sure what role monks are supposed to fill here. But the way they function in PoEt is really really weird and out of place. They are a class that needs tons of micromanagement, and doesn't give you any *reward* for doing it. They are just... a really bad fighter. At least in DnD they got psionic and cleric spells making them actually quite useful, as psionic spells were not exactly something your average mage or cleric had.

 

DnD itself never could decide the role of monk. At least they realized that just "unarmed" isn't really enough to put it above a mage that could use timestop ;P

[Hellraiser789]

I don't think you are required to be unarmed as a monk...you just get bonuses for fist fighting if thats what you choose to use, but I think your abilities and stuff still work with weapons. Could be wrong though, I haven't checked. Although that just makes them into retaliators whos focus on taking damage to fuel damage (which is a cool concept I guess.)

 

Although I also didnt like them in BG2 and don't really see a need for them in D&D as a whoie, I don't think I mind them in PoE. I can go either way though really.

[RedSocialKnight]

PoE monks aren't supposed to be the "karate kids" usually associated with this class name in other games.

 

They're supposed to be more western-styled ascetic monks who gain power through sacrifice and mortification of the flesh.

[Guest BugsVendor]

Interesting didn't think there is so many monks supporters out there

 

To me still Meh. There is just no place in my imagination for a monk fighting European style full plated knight.

 

I don't mind your opinions at all however.

[deama]

Yeah, I agree with you, they don't fit all that well. In the baldur's gate series I think they fitted in better, but still felt a bit "awkward".

[dirigible]

I don't really understand why people think Monks are more out of place than, say, Ciphers. Or firearms. Or the fact that druids, paladins, and plate armor all exist at the same time (despite being separated by hundreds of years in the real world).

Edited April 6, 2015 by dirigible

[Guest BugsVendor]

I don't really understand why people think Monks are more out of place than, say, Ciphers. Or firearms. Or the fact that druids, paladins, and plate armor all exist at the same time (despite being separated by hundreds of years in the real world).

 

I don't think it is a logical choice. It is just a feel that's all.

 

Still somehow Ciphers feel like a part of this new concept of souls and all this stuff. Druid - different kind of mystic magic.

 

Monks, it's like trying to put in dragon ball into all this. It's cool on it's own but just doesn't fit with the rest.

[serenityangel]

I've played with two monk ideas and like both of them, first one was a light robed fire godlike with fists and super high interrupt attack rates and other was hide wearing 2handed sword wielding monk.  They both kicked a lot of butt for me, but you really got to hook them up with some def/DR and endurance regen or they just fall too fast before they melt away the opponents.  The party I having most fun with atm is(cipher) cc,monk-sword tank, chanter-2nd pike wielding assist tank, druid, rogue, ranger.  The rogue-ranger combo is stroong lol...the first guy is instant gibbed almost no matter what.  Anyways, having lotsa fun, thanks Obsidian ^^

 

(I know running on tangent, but I tried 2 monk concepts and liked both.  I heard some people play with plate armor and sword shield with their monks, but I'm like, why sacrifice the speed?  maybe they playing path of pain difficulty or something, idk) 

[Dongom]

Dont worry, you stop using fists as they don't scale well. You become a rogue without the cool crit talents and escape skills who has to take hits to do good dmg

[Sabin Stargem]

I do not see why monks have to be considered "odd" in a world filled with dragons, guns, magic, undead, and soul-sucking machinery.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

I don't really understand why people think Monks are more out of place than, say, Ciphers. Or firearms. Or the fact that druids, paladins, and plate armor all exist at the same time (despite being separated by hundreds of years in the real world).

Because firearms and knights in shining armour and pagan priests worshipping nature gods are all part of the same cultural tradition. Sure, firearms only appeared centuries after the Teutonic Knights fought the pagans in eastern Europe, and that was a millennium after the actual druids vanished, but it all took place in western Europe. It's not that much of a stretch to have them appear in the same game. All you really need to combine them is a couple of "what if" scenarios. What if monotheism had never arisen in antiquity and pagan religions like druidism had remained universal? That's all you need, really.

 

Bringing in this one specific part of East-Asian history requires a lot more mental gymnastics. And most D&D games don't actually even try.

 

In a game like Jade Empire, martial arts were very cool. In a game like Baldur's Gate, they feel out of place.

 

Pillars of Eternity tries a bit to reconcile them to the setting, but I don't think they go far enough. Concept wise, I'd probably have dropped the "unarmed combat" thing altogether and made them like Warhammer Flagellants. (Religious fanatics who whip themselves into fervourous frenzies and thus are able to ignore pain and fear almost completely. Would work well with the wound concept.)

[Dongom]

BG2 monks are amazing though.  So fun to solo with.

[dirigible]

In a game like Jade Empire, martial arts were very cool. In a game like Baldur's Gate, they feel out of place.

Do people really think Westerners never performed martial arts? 

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Tried to play a monk in BG2 once, but I got very bored with him. Spells are much more fun.

 

Anyway, I just remembered a fun fact about western monks: whilst for most of the middle ages they were the ascetic (and/or corrupt and greedy) religious figures copying books we all know and love, (if we've seen "in the name of the rose," anyway) when they first arose in late antiquity they were more seen like wandering bands of violent thugs who would pick fights with pagans and go around smashing up their temples and statues and whatnot.

So maybe there's something to be said for fighting monks in D&D style settings after all.

 

(Well, you had warrior monks later in the middle ages too, but those were guys like the Knights Templar and the Teutonic Knights, and in the game would look more like paladins probably. Those early monks would look the part better.)

 

 

 

Do people really think Westerners never performed martial arts?

 

Edit to Dirgible: Yeah, good point. I should have specified eastern martial arts. The eastern influences are very obvious in the Baldur's Gate style monks, what with the "ki" stuff and all.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Iguana-on-a-stick

[Guest BugsVendor]

 

I don't really understand why people think Monks are more out of place than, say, Ciphers. Or firearms. Or the fact that druids, paladins, and plate armor all exist at the same time (despite being separated by hundreds of years in the real world).

Because firearms and knights in shining armour and pagan priests worshipping nature gods are all part of the same cultural tradition. Sure, firearms only appeared centuries after the Teutonic Knights fought the pagans in eastern Europe, and that was a millennium after the actual druids vanished, but it all took place in western Europe. It's not that much of a stretch to have them appear in the same game. All you really need to combine them is a couple of "what if" scenarios. What if monotheism had never arisen in antiquity and pagan religions like druidism had remained universal? That's all you need, really.

 

Bringing in this one specific part of East-Asian history requires a lot more mental gymnastics. And most D&D games don't actually even try.

 

In a game like Jade Empire, martial arts were very cool. In a game like Baldur's Gate, they feel out of place.

 

Pillars of Eternity tries a bit to reconcile them to the setting, but I don't think they go far enough. Concept wise, I'd probably have dropped the "unarmed combat" thing altogether and made them like Warhammer Flagellants. (Religious fanatics who whip themselves into fervourous frenzies and thus are able to ignore pain and fear almost completely. Would work well with the wound concept.)

 

 

You deserve an up vote just for your name

Edited April 7, 2015 by BugsVendor

[LadyCrimson]

Based on threads post-Kickstarter period, I'd say no, you aren't the only one who isn't into Monks, whether just in PoE or in general.

 

...I normally like them in games, because I like the idea of speed/dex builds that AREN'T rogues or stealth-based, but with the combat mechanics of PoE and the Wounds system, I wasn't enjoying it all that much. They're fine/ok, just not very interesting to play, imo.

[Atheosis]

I've always hated monks in D&D and it's no different in Pillars.  I just don't get why this crap has lingered so long in fantasy roleplaying...

[Dongom]

  I just don't get why this crap has lingered so long in fantasy roleplaying...

 

 dem things called opinions

[lychee26]

Well, I think if they removed the unarmed part of the monk and just had them use weapons, it would be fine, they just turn into warrior monk fanatics that like to hurt themselves (which is what I thought they were supposed to be). But they would have to change a lot, like the icons, animations, some of the lore.

[Sabin Stargem]

I've always hated monks in D&D and it's no different in Pillars.  I just don't get why this crap has lingered so long in fantasy roleplaying...

 

I found the source of your problem.

[Emptiness]

Now I regret responding to your other "I hate monks" threads, because now I understand that they were just "I hate monks" threads.

[dirigible]

Personally, I love monks and I'm really glad that PoE decided to include them.

 

Traditional European fantasy involves exactly 4 archetypes : the knight, the maiden, the sage, and the monster. If you want to act like modern fantasy should stick to the same rules, then you're gonna have to get rid of everything from rogues to druids to priests.

 

Fantasy has evolved over time. Tolkein added the concept of the ranger and the rogue. Robert E. Howard added the concept of the barbarian and the sorcerer. D&D added the concept of the cleric, the wizard, the bard, etc - including (like it or not) monks and psionics.

[Irrevenant]

I've always hated monks in D&D and it's no different in Pillars.  I just don't get why this crap has lingered so long in fantasy roleplaying...

 

Because beating the hell out of mythical creatures with nothing but your own hands and feet is awesome.