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Ive just completed PoE on Path of the Damned and heres my review


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- The threat system is non existent. I know its the way the old Infinity Engine works but I hate it. ATLEAST give sword&board Fighters a 1/2 per rest aoe taunt or just 2 encounter single Taunts or...atleast some threat producing aura. Ive had a few times where I got really frustreted because scripted mobs suddenly turns around after being tanked SOLELY by the tank and the script goes after lowest health partymember and theres no way stopping it. Poor design.

 

Add taunts? No thanks. If I want to play WoW I'll go throw some money at Blizzard.

 

Enemies that obey taunting are the definition of bad AI.

 

If your squishier guys are in danger, cast the level 1 priest spell Withdraw on them. It's basically an invincible bubble that heals you. 

Edited by Hebruixe
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What edition was Temple of Elemental Evil? Best combat in a D&D game ever. Obsidian should have just copied that.

Third Edition and yes, it´s the most faithful D&D game in terms of actual PnP system integration. Just have to play if with Circle of Eight mod installed, because Troika left the patching in unfinished state themselves.

 

Understatement of the year. In an unpatched state, that game can literally uninstall your Windows system files along with itself.

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I totally agree with you on the stat system. I know the developers were trying to avoid min-max but it kinda ruins the RP factor...I had to enchant Might bonuses for my Wiz and Druid items after I realised that Might affects spell damage too.  :facepalm:

Might is not "strength" like in all other games with stats.

 

 

And yet, when you look at how it's being used as a skill check in dialogs, it most definitely looks like strength 

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What edition was Temple of Elemental Evil? Best combat in a D&D game ever. Obsidian should have just copied that.

Third Edition and yes, it´s the most faithful D&D game in terms of actual PnP system integration. Just have to play if with Circle of Eight mod installed, because Troika left the patching in unfinished state themselves.

 

Understatement of the year. In an unpatched state, that game can literally uninstall your Windows system files along with itself.

 

Indeed. Troika made great games that were extremely unstable and unfinished. And still... Games that made, such as Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines are true classics of the genre. :)

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What edition was Temple of Elemental Evil? Best combat in a D&D game ever. Obsidian should have just copied that.

Third Edition and yes, it´s the most faithful D&D game in terms of actual PnP system integration. Just have to play if with Circle of Eight mod installed, because Troika left the patching in unfinished state themselves.

 

Understatement of the year. In an unpatched state, that game can literally uninstall your Windows system files along with itself.

 

Indeed. Troika made great games that were extremely unstable and unfinished. And still... Games that made, such as Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines are true classics of the genre. :)

 

Truth. VtM:B is one of the greatest RPG's I've ever played. Unfinished or not, that game is amazing. From the atmosphere to the non-combat options to the fact that the whole game, from beginning to end, has entirely separate dialogue trees *just* for the Malkavians, it's really just brain-melting good.

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Abolish the tank / aggro threat system and install something different.

 

Aggro should be a simple formula based on two things; damage dealt and distance from the damage.  Something like this:

 

((Damage Dealt) * (4 for damage on person) or (3 for damage on ally 0-4.99m away) or (2 for damage on ally 5+m away)) / (Distance from enemy * 2) = Aggro Level

 

This formula means damage dealt will be more important than distance from enemy, but you could play with the multipliers to achieve whatever effect concerning aggro you wanted. Each enemy type could have a different aggro thresh hold that would cause them to disengage from their current opponent and aggro onto another character that is inflicting more damage to them or an ally.  Lets play a hypothetical situation involving 2 NPCs (Paladin and Wizard) and 3 Orcs (2 Melee and 1 Bowman):

 

Paladin has aggro on both melee orcs and the bowman (5m away).  The wizard is 3m behind the Paladin.  Paladin attacks one melee orc for 10 dmg.  His aggro level using above formual to each orc is now:

 

1 Orc he attacked: (10*4)/(1*2) = 40/2 = 20

2 Orc ally beside him: (10*3)/(1*2) = 30/2 = 15

3 Orc ally Bowman: (10*2)/(5*2) = 20/10 = 2

 

Currently the Paladin has very high aggro on the 2 melee orcs and low aggro on the bowman orc.  Orcs are dumb, so lets say their aggro thresh hold for disengaging an enemy is something high, say 15, meaning they won't disengage their current target unless aggro threat level goes over a 15 or the target dies.  The smarter the enemy, the lower the number.

 

Now, the wizard in all his glory fires a magic blast at the Orc ally engaged with the Paladin.  He hits a critical for 25 dmg.  The aggro from the orcs for him is now:

 

1 Orc the Paladin attacked:  (25*3)/(3*2) = 75/6 = 12.5

2 Orc ally the Wizard crit'd:  (25*4)/(3*2) = 100/6 = 16.66

3 Orc ally Bowman:  (25*2)/(8*2) = 50/16 = 3.125

 

Remember, Orc aggro thresh hold is 15, meaning anytime aggro gets above 15 using my formula, they will disengage at all costs and attack whoever attacked them.  This would mean the Paladin Orc and the Bowman would maintain aggro on the Paladin, while the 2nd melee orc will now disengage and attempt to smash the wizard who just blasted them into next Sunday.  It may seem confusing and the numbers definitely need adjustment (I made them up in 2 minutes), but a threat / aggro system like this would not only be more realistic, but would create more strategy.  It would cause the player to think, should I blow my biggest spell right now and get all aggro on my wizard or use C/C or lower damage spells for a minute until I can safely blow my load?  Should I give my tanky character more might to cause him to do more damage, in turn generating more aggro?  With this system, it would create a need to balance damage dealing with damage soaking because a character who did little damage wouldn't hold aggro well.  It may also create a need for back line characters to actually use armor and defensive abilities because they will absolutely generate some aggro when they use their big hitters.

 

A system like this would generate a breadth of strategy and a whole new layer of tactics not yet seen in CRPGs.

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In case it wasn't mentioned, and someone who is actually interested is still perusing this thread...

you can get rid of the engagment system, and a few other irritating things, if you want, via the IE mod:

http://rien-ici.com/iemod/pillars_of_eternity

I've only tested it on the 1.02 version of the game, but it does what it says, and does it well.

highly recommended.

 

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Respawning mobs make zero sense in a game like this.

 

You kill all the mobs. Then you start a new game. Then you kill all the mobs again.. Then you start a new game. The cycle continues.

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Giving it 8/10 or even 7/10 - not to go off topic but can you recommend me some cRPGs that you give 9/10, in that case!!!

Off Topic

I was judging it as a game so I was considering the overall mechanics, gameplay solution/innovation, storytelling and so on.

I don't want to appear as a wannabe critic. I just have a reasonable age and have played videogames since very young.

 

If I had to give it a vote only in the cRPG genre, I think it should be a solid 8 for me. Maybe something more probably.

To try to give a couple of example:

  • Divinity: Original Sin in my book could have been a 9 but the storytelling was very poor so it's an 8 instead.
  • Dragon Age: Origins was a very good game from the point of view of storytelling imho but a little lacking in the mechanics (not very deep), I'm thinking at the moment so I could being wrong, i'd say a 7 and half.
  • Dragon Age: Inquisition has been a very nice experience. A thrilling storytelling, it was suffering the need to find a way to mediate between the "action" view and the isometric that would had require much more ability and sinergy. I'd say a 7 for me.

Again, I very likely doesn't want to end up talking about my personal "votes" because games are a media that can't be summed up with a single vote imho.

 

Edited by crius
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PoE has the engagement system, which is more of a threat system than the BG's ever had. I'm glad they didn't go with a typical MMO-style aggro system, actually, as I always find that leads to a pretty boring set of predictable tactics. As for pulling a mob back if it leaves the tank--that's what Into the Fray is actually for. Combine it with the +1 engagement talent Hold the LIne, and you can actually hold a pretty solid number of enemys with a single tank.

The problem with the current engagement system is that melee dps is pointless in the current design of this game. While yes you could technically do more dps in melee as a rogue, you wouldn't be able to survive because tanks can't taunt and you'd have to wear heavy armor and improve defensive stats (thus making your dps suck because you're not improving those instead) The game is designed so you either build pure defense or pure offense, trying to do both makes you suck at both.

 

Could easily be solved with aoe taunts from tanks ON TOP of the current engagement system. Or some sort of way for tanks to defend their melee dps in combat besides trying to CC everything.

 

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Edited by Nokturnal Lex
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PoE has the engagement system, which is more of a threat system than the BG's ever had. I'm glad they didn't go with a typical MMO-style aggro system, actually, as I always find that leads to a pretty boring set of predictable tactics. As for pulling a mob back if it leaves the tank--that's what Into the Fray is actually for. Combine it with the +1 engagement talent Hold the LIne, and you can actually hold a pretty solid number of enemys with a single tank.

The problem with the current engagement system is that melee dps is pointless in the current design of this game. While yes you could technically do more dps in melee as a rogue, you wouldn't be able to survive because tanks can't taunt and you'd have to wear heavy armor and improve defensive stats (thus making your dps suck because you're not improving those instead) The game is designed so you either build pure defense or pure offense, trying to do both makes you suck at both.

 

Could easily be solved with aoe taunts from tanks ON TOP of the current engagement system. Or some sort of way for tanks to defend their melee dps in combat besides trying to CC everything.

 

----

 

I do alright with my melee monk and melee rogue in addition to Eder who is a pure tank. The trick is just let Eder get as many of them on him as possible and then send others into flanking positions (or to attack the backline).
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PoE has the engagement system, which is more of a threat system than the BG's ever had. I'm glad they didn't go with a typical MMO-style aggro system, actually, as I always find that leads to a pretty boring set of predictable tactics. As for pulling a mob back if it leaves the tank--that's what Into the Fray is actually for. Combine it with the +1 engagement talent Hold the LIne, and you can actually hold a pretty solid number of enemys with a single tank.

The problem with the current engagement system is that melee dps is pointless in the current design of this game. While yes you could technically do more dps in melee as a rogue, you wouldn't be able to survive because tanks can't taunt and you'd have to wear heavy armor and improve defensive stats (thus making your dps suck because you're not improving those instead) The game is designed so you either build pure defense or pure offense, trying to do both makes you suck at both.

 

Could easily be solved with aoe taunts from tanks ON TOP of the current engagement system. Or some sort of way for tanks to defend their melee dps in combat besides trying to CC everything.

 

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Completely untrue.  Do you want to see my Rogue?  The damage is insane (350+ crits from a single-handed weapon) and he can just move around doing whatever he wants due to Shadowing Beyond and Coordinated Positioning.  It's very, very easy to make melee damagers in this game and I have to laugh at all the people making shieldwalls with missile batteries because it's just so ineffective and prone to catastrophic collapse (play Trial of Iron and you'll see).

Edited by durbal
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I'm not even aware of other games where tanking even works. Like in DDO you have to make self healing tanky survivable wizards to play the game, and its one of those ****ty MMOs where you're pretty much not allowed to die at all.

 

Funny you say ddo, it does have the taunt power which has been there since I beleive 2006, but they more than doubled threat generation just yesterday to many builds. Don't know what you mean about you aren't allowed to die at all, there are rez's and shrines in dungeons. Yes you can wipe if you don't play well, that my friend is called a challenge. Even then you can rejuvinate at a tavern and renter the quest.

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The only problem with rolling a barb is choosing between 19 con and 19 int, or 20 con and 18 int.

 

Barbarians need brains. Its totally apt that I roll a barbarian and he knows everything about engwithian ruins at the start of the game.

 

To be fair that's exactly what a Glenfathan barbarian WOULD know about. :)

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PoE has the engagement system, which is more of a threat system than the BG's ever had. I'm glad they didn't go with a typical MMO-style aggro system, actually, as I always find that leads to a pretty boring set of predictable tactics. As for pulling a mob back if it leaves the tank--that's what Into the Fray is actually for. Combine it with the +1 engagement talent Hold the LIne, and you can actually hold a pretty solid number of enemys with a single tank.

The problem with the current engagement system is that melee dps is pointless in the current design of this game. While yes you could technically do more dps in melee as a rogue, you wouldn't be able to survive because tanks can't taunt and you'd have to wear heavy armor and improve defensive stats (thus making your dps suck because you're not improving those instead) The game is designed so you either build pure defense or pure offense, trying to do both makes you suck at both.

 

Could easily be solved with aoe taunts from tanks ON TOP of the current engagement system. Or some sort of way for tanks to defend their melee dps in combat besides trying to CC everything.

 

----

 

Completely untrue.  Do you want to see my Rogue?  The damage is insane (350+ crits from a single-handed weapon) and he can just move around doing whatever he wants due to Shadowing Beyond and Coordinated Positioning.  It's very, very easy to make melee damagers in this game and I have to laugh at all the people making shieldwalls with missile batteries because it's just so ineffective and prone to catastrophic collapse (play Trial of Iron and you'll see).

 

Yes, I want to see your rogue setup, tell me.

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PoE has the engagement system, which is more of a threat system than the BG's ever had. I'm glad they didn't go with a typical MMO-style aggro system, actually, as I always find that leads to a pretty boring set of predictable tactics. As for pulling a mob back if it leaves the tank--that's what Into the Fray is actually for. Combine it with the +1 engagement talent Hold the LIne, and you can actually hold a pretty solid number of enemys with a single tank.

The problem with the current engagement system is that melee dps is pointless in the current design of this game. While yes you could technically do more dps in melee as a rogue, you wouldn't be able to survive because tanks can't taunt and you'd have to wear heavy armor and improve defensive stats (thus making your dps suck because you're not improving those instead) The game is designed so you either build pure defense or pure offense, trying to do both makes you suck at both.

 

Could easily be solved with aoe taunts from tanks ON TOP of the current engagement system. Or some sort of way for tanks to defend their melee dps in combat besides trying to CC everything.

 

----

 

Completely untrue.  Do you want to see my Rogue?  The damage is insane (350+ crits from a single-handed weapon) and he can just move around doing whatever he wants due to Shadowing Beyond and Coordinated Positioning.  It's very, very easy to make melee damagers in this game and I have to laugh at all the people making shieldwalls with missile batteries because it's just so ineffective and prone to catastrophic collapse (play Trial of Iron and you'll see).

 

Yes, I want to see your rogue setup, tell me.

 

 

Here's a savegame file.  Have a blast.  Use Blinding Strike if you rush to the backline so you get Sneak Attack damage, then Weakening Blow if you need to kill more backline enemies.  Most of the time just flanking a group engaged by other melees is enough damage from Sneak Attack to quickly wipe out any enemies.  Use Coordinated Positioning liberally since it's an instant and can get you into or out a position twice per enounter.  Use Shadowing Beyond if you get in trouble or otherwise can't navigate to key enemies due to engagement.  Finishing (Devastating) blow can quickly wipe out an enemy if party members need help elsewhere.  It also makes boss fights trivial (killed Thaos and Adra Dragon in a few seconds).

 

There are other build options as well.  I think I chose Ruffian for this guy for thematic reasons and also because Resolution is possibly the best weapon in the game that's readily found.

 

Link to savegame: https://www.dropbox.com/s/e602n9lm75bcco4/446fece33a0e48eb8895d9f4e9b575f3%2015103878%20Cave.savegame?dl=0

 

EDIT: that savegame doesn't have the Boots of Speed in it, but those boots are insane on a Rogue since they make you into The Flash.  The Glanfathan Stalking Boots are sufficient for damage when speed isn't required, anyway though.

Edited by durbal
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